| Re: a quote from George fox suspect |
I have heard of this man George Fox ,but in name only before,and was not familiar with him.
I looked this up on 'revival library',and found this in what he was to have said when he went to this temple house:
" I said Oh no; it is not the scripture ! And I told them what was namely the Holy Spirit by which >>>> the Holy men of God gave forth the Scripture,where by opinions,religion,and judgement was to be tried; for it led into all truth and gave the knowledge of all Christ and His Apostles
and took them to try doctrine of the Scriptures;but they erred in judgement,
and did not try them right because they tried without the Holy Ghost. <<<< "
Thought you might like to see this.
| 2014/8/28 22:46||Profile|
| Re: |
Elisabeth i have read parts of his journal,,sister i dont think you have read this thread ,because that quote you gave was the basis of the beginning of this thread ,where fox gave a false interpretation to some scripture read by a paster .
Thanks for your kind words Andrew i dont deserve that .
Brenda no need to go down the path of assuming mental illness,that is a little bit of a low blow .
I've spoke to Andrew on skype for a few hours one time and again for an hour or two ,,and he is one of the most gentle sincere and godly men i have talked with ,far from some one with mental illness ,,im familiar with bipolar and schizophrenia,, grew up with my mother and cousins .
Many people here take Andrew the wrong way because of his burden for truth ,and love for the vunrable seekers .I no i for one share a similar burden and others here also ,but often time we just dont speak up for different reasons.
i have know doubt that i and Andrew only participate in a thread like this because of love for the truth and and for the sake of the weaker brethren ,theres no hate here for you Brenda on my part ,and i dare say none on Andrews .
| 2014/8/28 23:44||Profile|
| Re: |
Hey mark i am trying ,just an on-line tuition session i might pass on that .
David-keel ,im glad you had fun . A little bit of fun makes the thread seems less threating and abrasive ,which i think is appropriate due to the subject
| 2014/8/29 0:15||Profile|
| Re: |
Brenda I have no mental health problems and never have had. I believe you will find that you are confusing what others have said on this site as a mechanism for trying to defeat my persistence on certain matters. The substance of these things arises from my testimony which is on this site in which I make reference to my mother, now deceased, who did have mental health problems. I have none and never have had. Don't feel any need to apologise Brenda no one else has done and I can see no reason why you should set an example.
The fact that you find some of my thoughts strange for a follower of the Lord Jesus, is a matter for you. If you want to say so then by all means do. It is of no concern to me at all if the form of that saying has no more substance than you have displayed here. Likewise if you feel that anything I have said, or else which you believe I have implied; and which by your inference constitutes veiled threats, then my advise would be to go to the appropriate authority and report me immediately. My name Brenda is Andrew Michael Robert Kelly. Greg knows my address and so he can assist in that endeavour if you believe it to be necessary.
Stalking people has a legal meaning and should not be used emotively to put someone down or as a mechanism for making them go away. This is a public forum and I have posted only material that is in the public domain by your own hand. It is all in the context of a discussion in which it is both ordinary and normal to quote people who have published their thoughts and ideas publicly; if by that means it can be shown what their prior publications are relevant to the discussion. If I had made reference to your private life that would have been unacceptable and clearly wrong.
You elected to post these two parts from my own post and then asked me to comment.
"But I know that your search will in the end land you in deep water..... You will find that it is a pervasive snare which leads to death"
The term death Brenda on a Christian website when speaking of spiritual realities and in context of the living has a meaning attendant to spiritual outcomes. Whether this comment is specifically applied to yourself is of course semantically unclear. However by inference you may well decide it has you in mind or you may broaden your thinking and see it for what it is. It is a statement made in generality of a possible consequence arising from a person going into mysticism and instead of finding true light, which is life, finding darkness, which is death. And that Brenda is the exact context I set the comment in. These are spiritual terms and you know it well enough.
If you want to make something of my comment about persisting with you and that, because I feel led to do so, as well as the consequence of not obeying such a leading in the past with another, literally resulting in death, then that can be deduced to mean both physical death, in the case of that past reference, and may well reasonably be further deduced to mean physical death in your case. However, I did not say that with regard to your self, and whilst I can see how subliminal allusions can and often do make for subconscious concerns I am disinclined to believe that you have any such concern for yourself by that means. You have displayed yourself as someone with a sure independent mind. Therefore, whilst my claim is in fact true, and I have posted an account of it on this site, being time stamped to a date prior to the relevant comment herein, citing a past tense reality with a future concern does not in any way constitute a threat or for that matter a prophetic claim. You know it well.
So what is it to be Brenda? Will you always resort to such methodologies or will you accept that I have been explicitly clear in my reasoning and thinking and have in truth said nothing more unreasonable than to express a concern about your spiritual ambitions to promote mysticism and all that such a thing entails, be it a peculiar sinless perfection doctrine, which you cannot even properly explain, or else a supposed via triplex which you seemingly grasp only by reason of a numerical value and not in its philosophical roots in occult pantheism.
Brenda if my comments on this site are at odds with those of a genuine believer then you ought to make the case for that and ask Greg to remove me from the site.
A few facts:
I said previously:
"Finally Brenda you have done little other than press into your journey and sought to take others with you for a number of years now. It is all in the forum and can be demonstrated with ease. You may not see things in this way because you feel your search is legitimate. But I know that your search will in the end land you in deep water."
This is the first part of the joined up element of my post which you elected to highlight Brenda and as you can see the term "deep water" is a general expression intended to give rise to a concern without expressing precisely what that concern is in terms of its outcome.
"Now in finality you can go back to the Worthington's web site and really read where your enquiry will lead Brenda. You will find that it is a pervasive snare which leads to death."
This is the second part of the joined up element of my post which you elected to highlight Brenda and as you can see the context is very clear and there is no threat whatsoever. To infer that there is, albeit indirectly may be somewhat of a mistake on your part. If you were to make sense of what this really means you would clearly have to follow the advice and read the whole of the Worthington's statements. You would also have to come to the conclusion that they express some remarkable things which are self evidently heretical and spiritually dangerous. But as these things are now presented as subjective realities and not eternal truth, in order to make this presentation of mine a criminal activity and thereby seek to ruin the man, it would not be difficult for someone with a willingness to hate the man and to agree with prior accusations and claims to threats or mental health problems, to dismiss all things out of hand.
As the Quakers are so fond to remind us all. Pacifism not passivity is the ambition. Mr Fox was an exemplar of that very instrument. He was capable of provoking the most necessary response by means of his words, and by means of his body and a pacifist spirit, (for which he suffered greatly), facilitate an accusation against men going beyond spiritual matter and doctrines. By that means he did perfectly express a violent agitation of mens spirits that he brought the whole matter upon himself, and therein lay claim to the brutality of others and demanded the eventual sympathy and agreement of the more men to his side.
You have learned your master's trade well I think Brenda. I am however decidedly not deceived.
| 2014/8/29 0:18|
| What a mess!|
George Fox was a mighty man of God, who none of us should dare to disparage. Those of you who may have read this thread and become confused, don't let the ignorance of a few lead you astray. Instead read brother Greg's new book where he includes a short and inspiring bio of this powerful servant of God.
As to the rest of this thread, it has descended into a chaotic mess and become the sort of thread that give Sermon Index a bad name. If I was a first time visitor and was able to read this entire thread through I would leave and never come back. I certainly would not want to poke my head up and say something after seeing the way people are spoken to here!
To that end dear sister Brenda let me encourage you to know that I am praying or you. You may not be perfect and we may disagree on some points, but I can tell that you love The Lord Jesus Christ, and that's all that matters to me:).
I am disgusted and appalled at the abusive way you have been spoken to and maligned here...from what it seems is a very unhinged individual who appears to have been stalking you online all these years?!! I don't blame you for feeling a little creeped out. And not just stalked you, but admits to deliberately laying snares to "trip up your feet". What utter nonsense, actually it sounds worse...more like some weird obsession with you...yikes! If you were my wife I would have some very strong words with any man that spoke to you like this. This guy needs to shut his big mouth, repent and apologize to you.
For what it is worth sister I find your posts pleasant and respectful and not the least bit heretical and without anything even remotely related to the occult! Lol. The smartest thing you could do is follow through on your words and never reply to him again because you will only feed his obsession. May The Lord bless you and strengthen you in spirit, soul and body. Praying for you tonight!!!
| 2014/8/29 1:47|
| Re: What a mess!|
Mark thank you so much for that post, it is most appreciated. You may know that there have been a number of people on this board over time who have been subjected to Andrew's obsessiveness and have questioned his sanity. I do so for him to hopefully get some help.
I quote his own words from amrkelly's own website: https://blog.ichabod.eu/
I had an underlying condition of acute anxiety which I had lived with for so long that I didn’t even realise that I was anxious. To me my obsessive and overly methodical ways were normal and I saw no flesh in them at all. It was realising this fact almost single handedly which caused me the most resentment and anger....... At times by a perverse attitude of pride and knowledge I was pressed to the very edges of what it was possible to resist, yet always used the prophetic gift and the knowledge of God as a shield and way back from the darkness of the kingdom of Satan. In response to these drivings from the air, I set about to clear up the town of serious crimes. This reaction was my way of “proving” to myself that I was not going to do their bidding. In one instance I sought out a serial rapist who was plaguing the community and finding his house I stood against him. Within days he was caught and arrested at home. I walked the streets at night and sought out the youth gangs who so often put fear into others, and withstood them in a countenance which left them completely speechless and unable to say anything against me.
Also he says that not only his mother but a son of his has mental health problems which would lead me to question my self due to heredity. I will of course pray for him.
| 2014/8/29 2:54|
| Re: What a mess!|
Mark did you read this book ;;;The great mystery of the great whore unfolded; and Antichrist's kingdom ...
that book is what has confused the issue , you think this thread is bad ,my mind boggles at the amount of debating that book and that that in dare to disparage it uses worsening words against men of god like john Bunyan and Baxter ,,now if that is a mighty man of gods way of dealing with ones who dont agree with is doctrine as you said he was a might man of god ,then Andrew has all right to confront what he sees as false doctrine hypothetically,whats good for the goose is good for the gander ,thats if we want look at if fairly and consistently .He goes from paster to paster even taking there words our of obvious reformed context in some cases and the the like .John Wesley read the book and called it blasphemy , he dared to be disparage ,going further then just saying that.
I think sinless perfection and Calvinism ,Armenians decisions are normally very abrasive
Brother you dont need to call me ignorant , what my issues are in this are valid biblical principals that i have read in a mans wringings that are neglected and being taught to others as good doctrines . Im not ignorant of what he has written neither was John Wesley or John Bunyan ,and that is the reason why they called it blasphemy . I have not said that ,but i think i can see why they felt so very strong feelings about fox ,and we as bible believing Christians have the right in the lord as Wesley did to feel this way if with all our heart we see some one teaching a mis. Many in this fourm do the same in other areas of christianity ,,word of faith ,prosperity ,sinless perfection , charismatic manifestation .
i invited the forum to discuss the three main points of doctrine that we can see George fox held to as a bible study opportunity to sharpen each other .2peter 1;17and following was the verses that i hoped to get some of the forum interpretation on ...I'le leave it at that brother
| 2014/8/29 3:02||Profile|
| Re: |
At one time Wesley stated that all that became between him and the Quakers was their stance on the sacraments and only later did he decry the man, which coincided with the loss of many Methodists to Quakerism.
| 2014/8/29 3:10|
| Re: |
Brenda now your being flesly there no need for that it will do nothing for you image but mar it ,this thread may as well get locked .I honestly in all my heart would expect a much higher level of perfection and righeousness from someone who makes the sinnless perfection claim for them selfs .
Honestly that a big reason why i cant take that sinless perfection seriously ..
edit..... this post was regarding the post about andrew
| 2014/8/29 3:10||Profile|
| Re: |
I am sorry to spoil your thread Gary which will probably be locked now but I did not start the attack from Andrew.
| 2014/8/29 3:14|