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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Did Jesus Mean This Literally?

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TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5355
NC, USA

 Re:

Mark--

I am not sure guns were even mentioned explicitly until your post.

There had been discussion of whether to defend against home invasion or not but at least I have not mentioned guns-- at least I don't think I have.


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Todd

 2014/8/10 18:41Profile
Sree
Member



Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1710


 Re: Command of Jesus

I do not have time to go through the entire conversation to see where it is heading. But based on what I saw there are many situational questions like how can i defend if a person attacks me, my family, can a nation defend it self, can a nation go for a war etc.

Let us just keep it plain and simple. Jesus commanded us to love our enemies. Who are our enemies? Those who hate us and cause evil to us. In our day today life we see lot of such enemies, many cause harm knowingly and some unknowingly. For example recently I had someone who was trying to cheat money from me. It was very difficult to love him and be respectful to him and at the same time polietly demand the money as I am in need of it. But with God's grace I was able to overcome after many failures in this test. So when it comes to enemies, let us not think big about those who may perceute you or kill you. Let us start from simple things and try loving them.

The point is no one can give an explanation on how to love the terrorists or avoid war etc. We need to get a personal revelation from God to answer these questions posted here about war, terrorism etc. No answer will be satisfactory. To get a personal revelation we need to be first faithful in little things. God will not speak to someone about the need of war or fight against terrorism until he is faithful in little things. Start with little enemies, start with the driver who overtakes you in road against trafic rules. Avoid getting angry with him.


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Sreeram

 2014/8/11 2:03Profile
ZekeO
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Joined: 2004/7/4
Posts: 1014
Pietermaritzburg, South Africa

 Re:

To love ones enemies is a trait only Jesus Christ himself exhibited.

To the natural man such things are impossible.


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Zeke Oosthuis

 2014/8/11 5:33Profile
brothagary
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Joined: 2011/10/23
Posts: 1863


 Re:

it was interesting how jesus loved the money changers by driving them out of the temples like goats with a wip , and fliping all there tables ,,but he still loved them ,,im nealy certaint many people would called that voilence agreshion and even hate

its a thought to ponder though,,

 2014/8/11 6:03Profile
brothagary
Member



Joined: 2011/10/23
Posts: 1863


 Re:

the two greatest commandments love god and ;love your neighbor ,,not love you enemy's that obviously down to three further down

i think many well meaning Christians put love you enemy on the scale at 2 pushing the love your neighbor out of the dominant spot with love god ,and in doing so will they talk about about loving our enemy's ,they nullify to some extent the love we should have to wards our neighbors

if my neighbor is being abused and attacked by a drunken dude ,,what should i do take the second command to love my neighbor to heart as the dominant prominent command ,and protect him if i can ,,or forget about my neighbor and and say well i cant do anything really i must love my enemy which means blow him kisses and pray and maybe yell take me instead or go out get punched in the cheak and then turn the other cheak mean wile my neighbor hasn't got any cheek's left they fell off wile i was serenading our local enemy ,,,,,,,, or maybe i could make a whip of small cords and scare him down the road . saying this street is a street of prayer and safety and you have made it a boxing ring ,,,no im joking with that last bit about the whip ,,or maybe that is an option ,,as sree said maybe something like that might come as a revaluation thing so to speak ,,,,,,, get you head around this brethern ,,the temple full of Gard's and priests salesmen Pharisee scribes ,money changers ,and Jesus drove the money changes and salesmen out ,,the zeal for god house had well and truly eaten him up ,,, the passive delicate Jesus ,seems to be a bit different form the way many people picture him

we are exhorted to walk as he walked ,, he loved righteousness and hated lawlessness ,,but hey i dont think it would be a good idea to take a whip to you local congregation , unless of course they all prosperity poopers ,,god will understand in that case ,,,nooo that was a joke

 2014/8/11 7:00Profile
roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3776


 Re:

Quote:
the two greatest commandments love god and ;love your neighbor ,,not love you enemy’s



Jesus gave the Parable of the Good Samaritan to demonstrate this command. NOTE: The neighbour WAS the enemy. Not only that: Jesus’s audience would have known that the wounded man himself could have been an enemy - setting a trap for would-be helpers, only to rob them while they were trying to help. That was common on this road.

Gary, I am concerned that you are trying to make scripture accommodate your fears. You keep drawing on fictitious scenerios – imaginary people, none of which truly are your “neighbor” – or ever will be your “neighbor”.

The “neighbor”, as Jesus’s parable teaches, is the person whose path we cross: A real person we encounter in our lives – not even an imagined image of that person.

NOTICE how Jesus put a twist to the question asked of him: Who is my neighbour?” The real issue is not who this person might be, but who WE might be to that person! When you are fear-filled, you will never be a neighbour.

Gary, Can you comment on the testimony Mary Jane posted: The example of where the threatening invader was the woman’s husband, whom she perceived IN HER IMAGINATION as a dangerous enemy?

Would some comment on these fear-based responses in scripture:
-Peter sinking when he looked back at the storm clouds.
-Peter striking the soldier with a sword (aiming to cut off his head)
-The Israelites in Gideon’s day hiding in the wine-vats.
-More examples: (Can any of you add some?)

Can someone provide a biblical text showing that it is virtuous to harm your enemy – or any threatening person?

Diane




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Diane

 2014/8/11 8:17Profile









 Re:

Diane,

My sister no such text will be found. At least not in the New Testament, that I believe guides are conduct in Christ. There are those who will appeal to the Old Covenant writings to justify vengeance against those who have wronged them. But if we are guided by the teachings of Jesus and as citizens of His kingdom then we will not harm even our enemies.

On Rom.13:10. Paul reminds us that love does no harm to a neighbor because love is the fulfillment of the law. The law of Christ.

Could it be that Jesus is teaching us under the New Covenant even our enemy is in fact our neighbor?

Blaine





 2014/8/11 8:42









 Re: The Story if Dirk Willens

Brethren is it possible that we can love our enemies? Is it possible that we can even do good to them?

Please consider the account of Dirk Willems. This brother was of the early Anabaptists. Because of his love for the truth of Christ he was arrested by the authorities. Dirk knew in His imprisonment that's certain martyrdom awaited him. Thus tying together bed linens he made a rope. And escaped the tower in which he was imprisoned.

Being pursued he made a dash across a pond of thin ice. Dirk made it to the other side. But his pursuer being much heavier fell through the ice. Dirk heard man cry for help. This man was his enemy. He was the guard charged with keeping him in prison. For Dirk to turn and help this man would be to lose his chance of escape. And would be to risk imprisonment again.

Yet without hesitation Dirk turned and helped the man out of the freezing water. The grateful. man wanted to let Dirk go. But the burgermaster reminded the man of his sworn duty to the state. Thus Dirk Willems was remanded back to prison.

This dear brother for loving his enemy and doing good suffered a horrible martyrdom. But received a royal welcome into heaven.

This is one example of a brother who truly lived out the convictions of the Sermon on the Mount. This is one example of a brother who took seriously his Lord's command to love his enemy and to do good to him.

Dear saints I am not making this story up. It is recorded in Martyrs Mirror. It can be verified by Google.

I am sure this story has something to say to our hearts.

Blaine Scogin

 2014/8/11 9:12
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5355
NC, USA

 Re:

Bear that example is not the same as a home invasion scenario.

I would hope that none of us would simply let that man drown to save our own skin.


_________________
Todd

 2014/8/11 10:17Profile









 Re:

TMK,

Brother we can come up with scenerio after scenario. What about this......What about that.....

The command is still the same to love our enemy.

Ok. Let us talk about home invasion. Would you feel more secure having a 12 gauge or a 45 in your home? Would you be able to blow an intruder away and feel good you have done the right thing?

I posted earlier what a military chaplain told me about counseling those who took other lives in the course of war. This man told me that those who have taken lives felt that something of their soul was ripped away. Police officers who draw their weapons and discharging them taking a life have to go through counseling. Some never get over the consequences of taking a life. Even the rationale of taking a life in the line of duty does not deliver them from the nightmares and the loss of their humanity. I ask you can you live with that as a Christian?

Brother have you not read what RDG posted about the woman almost shot her husband because of fear of an intruder? Diane has been speaking to us about the power of fear. We as Christians have not been given a spirit of fear but the power and the peace of Christ himself.

I assume you are a husband and a father. You want to protect your home as any good husband and father should. Do you not pray protection over your home and family? Do you not read Psalm 91 over your home and family? Do you not trust your loved ones to the God who says that the angel of the Lord en camps around those who fear Him?

Brother if you pray protection over your home. And take other common sense precautions such as locking your doors. And maybe investing in a good security system with a direct link to the police. Then God will protect you without the need of a 12 gauge or a 45. But with all of that if God does allow a home invasion perhaps it might be that you bring that person to Christ.

My thoughts.

Blaine

 2014/8/11 10:40





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