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 Re:

Hi Sidewalk,

I study history sidewalk, I do not listen to " leftist dirt." To make such a statement exposes the fact that you may be caught up in the partisan politics of the day. I urge you to avoid that. It merely sows bitterness into the hearts of men and is of the world.

Greed and capitalism are certainly synonymous. One is the fuel that drives the other, without greed, capitalism could not exist, it burns at the heart of it. The love of money and the desire of riches is an ancient cancer of the soul and many have been their defendants.

No one claimed that the resources of the world were inherently evil sidewalk, its the love of those resources and the desire to get as much of them as you can that is the root of all evil. .............bro Frank

 2014/7/31 10:00
Sidewalk
Member



Joined: 2011/11/11
Posts: 706
San Diego

 Re: Continuing...

Well, I substantially disagree. Yes I am involved in partisan politics for several reasons, one of which is that I own a business and am affected every day by the winds of politics. I am in the gunsights of the political system, and what they do forces what I do. I pay attention because I have to.

But I still maintain that you misjudge the nature of capitalism. Where greed is a condition of the heart that refuses to trust God, capitalism is just an economic system through which people work and invest together to make their living. It has moral neutrality. Add to that its ability to control greed through the principle of open competition, it is the source of excellence.

Bill Gates has become a multi-billionaire, but because of what he did, people like me have been able to make millions. Thank you, Bill!


By the way, I live in California. The state is run entirely by one political party. They pass laws that are so burdensome, thousands of businesses and corporations have fled the state leaving workers stranded, tax bases gutted, streets pot-holed, police forces bare-boned. Gas is the most expensive in the nation, and set to rise another $.50 a gallon in January when more taxes are added. Illegal immigrants are welcome in every city, plundering the hospitals and social services resources.

Greed? Capitalists? When is the government going to be held accountable for its greed?? At least when "greedy" capitalists are allowed to operate, there are jobs and wealth creation. I certainly prefer that to the destructive enforcement of "wealth redistribution."

In the kingdom of God, all this will be nothing. Christ living in His body will demonstrate what love can really do as lambs and lions rest together. The corruption that is in the world will have collapsed itself, and the Peace of Christ will reign. Therein lies my fervant hope.

But for now we fight corruption in ourselves, our neighborhoods, our cities and our country, we fight it on our knees, we fight it in council meetings, we fight it on FaceBook. We fight it by being Christ to the world, giving them some vision of what truth and love look like- because some will see it, rejoice in it, and join us!

We are not commanded to win, just to fight! Or as a previous generation used to sing, "Onward Christian soldiers..."


_________________
Tom Cameron

 2014/7/31 11:42Profile









 Re:

Sidewalk writes...........

"Well, I substantially disagree. Yes I am involved in partisan politics for several reasons, one of which is that I own a business and am affected every day by the winds of politics. I am in the gunsights of the political system, and what they do forces what I do. I pay attention because I have to." and again........

"But I still maintain that you misjudge the nature of capitalism. Where greed is a condition of the heart that refuses to trust God, capitalism is just an economic system through which people work and invest together to make their living. It has moral neutrality." and one more time.....

"But for now we fight corruption in ourselves, our neighborhoods, our cities and our country, we fight it on our knees, we fight it in council meetings, we fight it on FaceBook."

Let us agree to disagree on these points brother......bro Frank

 2014/7/31 11:57
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4792


 Re:

I believe this is what Sidewalk is speaking of according to Scripture...

The exchange of money for goods and services is documented in the Scriptures. A godly system according to Scripture does not use deceptive means to conduct exchange between people. In God's system, He blesses those who bless Him. He provides for His people. Look to the Law of Moses for examples. And His system does resemble capitalism. The bible is filled with examples of this type of economic exchange.



On the other hand... Brother Frank also is correct in times where this system of exchange is corrupted...


Eze 28:2
“Son of man, say to the prince of Tyre, ‘Thus says the Lord GOD:

“Because your heart is lifted up,
And you say, ‘I am a god,
I sit in the seat of gods,
In the midst of the seas,’
Yet you are a man, and not a god,
Though you set your heart as the heart of a god

Eze 28:3
(Behold, you are wiser than Daniel!
There is no secret that can be hidden from you!

Eze 28:4
With your wisdom and your understanding
You have gained riches for yourself,
And gathered gold and silver into your treasuries;

Eze 28:5
By your great wisdom in trade you have increased your riches,
And your heart is lifted up because of your riches),”

Eze 28:6
‘Therefore thus says the Lord GOD:

“Because you have set your heart as the heart of a god,

Eze 28:7
Behold, therefore, I will bring strangers against you,
The most terrible of the nations;
And they shall draw their swords against the beauty of your wisdom,
And defile your splendor.

Eze 28:8
They shall throw you down into the Pit,
And you shall die the death of the slain
In the midst of the seas.

Eze 28:9
“Will you still say before him who slays you,
‘I am a god’?
But you shall be a man, and not a god,
In the hand of him who slays you.

Eze 28:10
You shall die the death of the uncircumcised
By the hand of aliens;
For I have spoken,” says the Lord GOD.’ ”

Eze 28:11
Moreover the word of the LORD came to me, saying,

Eze 28:12
“Son of man, take up a lamentation for the king of Tyre, and say to him, ‘Thus says the Lord GOD:

“You were the seal of perfection,
Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.

Eze 28:13
You were in Eden, the garden of God;
Every precious stone was your covering:
The sardius, topaz, and diamond,
Beryl, onyx, and jasper,
Sapphire, turquoise, and emerald with gold.
The workmanship of your timbrels and pipes
Was prepared for you on the day you were created.

Eze 28:14
“You were the anointed cherub who covers;
I established you;
You were on the holy mountain of God;
You walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones.

Eze 28:15
You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created,
Till iniquity was found in you.

Eze 28:16
“By the abundance of your trading
You became filled with violence within,
And you sinned;
Therefore I cast you as a profane thing
Out of the mountain of God;
And I destroyed you, O covering cherub,
From the midst of the fiery stones.

Eze 28:17
“Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty;
You corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendor;
I cast you to the ground,
I laid you before kings,
That they might gaze at you.

Eze 28:18
“You defiled your sancturaries,
By the multitude of your iniquities,
By the iniquity of your trading;
Therefore I brought fire from your midst;
It devoured you,
And I turned you to ashes upon the earth
In the sight of all who saw you.



Please note that the nature of the King of Tyre took on the nature of Lucifer his father.


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2014/7/31 12:42Profile









 this is just how the "persecution" will come........

Quote:
Let us agree to disagree on these points brother......bro Frank



cheers and good on ya, my dear brother Frank....I read thru the whole thread, heart rending.

there's no "left/right"....there are no "good old days", its just farsighted sentimental wishful thinking. and if there is such a thing as "leftist filth", I can testify that there is "rightist filth", as I have drunk from that swill, that phony kool aid.....and the ONLY REASON I KNOW....is because of Messiah Jesus, and what He said!

I've also noticed this: that in the time of a particular empire, whatever nation that the spirit of babylon has encamped; in that lifespan, the whore of babylon will appropriate The Things of God, to CONTROL people IN RELIGION.

we saw it happen in Rome, we saw it happen in England, and we will see it happen in America. dark souls will craft an idol of Jesus, wrap Him in the American flag, and the "Church of America" will be born...from that HARLOT, the sword will come, that will kill many Blood Boughts saints, who DO NOT kneel to Baal.

grieving, I see it clear as day. wee neil

 2014/7/31 15:23









 Re: this is just how the "persecution" will come........

for sidewalk:

would you term one of these two clips, "leftist filth"?

first, a clip from "The Young Turks", showing an unrepentant Vice President Cheney....and then the great President Eisenhower, speaking about "The Cross of Iron"

Young turks:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsKF76TrFeE

President Eisenhower:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGQ-wgPGTp8

is Ike a "leftie"?

I loved that man, him and JFK were why I joined the Navy...sometimes I pray God would send us a leader like Ike, but after Vietnam, I don't think we deserve such a man, they all keep getting worse and worse.

 2014/7/31 15:50









 Re: this is just how the "persecution" will come........

Neil writes........

"we saw it happen in Rome, we saw it happen in England, and we will see it happen in America. dark souls will craft an idol of Jesus, wrap Him in the American flag, and the "Church of America" will be born...from that HARLOT, the sword will come, that will kill many Blood Boughts saints, who DO NOT kneel to Baal."

Indeed dear brother indeed. I think Sidewalk might be on shaky ground if he believes that Capitalism is born of Scripture. Could capitalism exist without interest paid? What about a year of Jubilee, how would capitalism work if every 51 years everything goes back to its original owner? ..........bro Frank

 2014/7/31 16:21
MaryJane
Member



Joined: 2006/7/31
Posts: 3057


 Re:

Greetings

I just wanted to come back and say I did not mean for this thread to sow any troubles between posters here on SI. I was just more interested in talking history as I am teaching US history to my boys now. We have had some wonderful discussions about the choices people make and how it has changed things. I always want to find a way to teach things and then use the topic to look to JESUS and what HIS heart might be on any given matter. Our history books like to make some historical figures out to be hero's, perhaps they were but in the end they were all men too. Apart from JESUS there is nothing good. I want my children to understand there home is not here but we belong to the KINGDOM of GOD alone.

Anyway as I said I am sorry if my thread has in anyway cause anyone to stumble or sin. Please forgive me.

God bless
maryjane

 2014/7/31 16:30Profile









 Re:

There is no trouble sister, perhaps disagreements, but certainly not troubles :) ......bro Frank

 2014/7/31 16:38









 Re:

HI Mary, I have published these before but here is the net worth of the early American presidents. As we can see, they had a lot to lose and were quite taken with capitalism :)

The Richest Presidents Of All Time – Inflation Adjusted:

#1: George Washington – $525 Million (Owned 8000 acres of Virginia farmland and 300 slaves)
#2: Thomas Jefferson – $212 million (Owned 5000 acres of Virginia farmland plus dozens of slaves)

#3 John Adams $19 Million

#4 James Madison $101 Million

#5 James Munro $27 Million

#6 John Adam $21 Million

#7 Andrew Jackson $119 Million

To name but a few Mary. As you can see, those of the revolution had much to lose to the tax man. It was certainly the activities of super rich men.....bro Frank

 2014/7/31 16:49





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