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Joined: 2006/11/26
Posts: 3502


Brother Gary,

I am not saying that we should not strive
for sound doctrine and come against the
false teaching that permeates much of
the Catholic religion. What I am saying
is that Catholics already believe that Jesus
Christ is the Son of God, that He died for
their sins, and was raised from the dead.
They need to be shown in the scriptures
that It is only through Christ that they can
be saved. They need to be shown that
it is through grace alone that we are saved.
Telling them that the pope is the antichrist
will not get the job done.



 2014/7/14 22:55Profile

Joined: 2011/10/23
Posts: 1863


lol i didnt say that mate ,,i was talking about general unbelievers that have no faith ,,

but also beg to differ that they all believe Jesus is the son of god ,,,,,if they really did believe they would already be saved even if they dont understand what grace is

i come across catholic that think there OK with god cause they got baptized as Babs and the parents put them in a catholic school,,,nominal Christian is over here bigger i think then born again Christianity

i was witnessing to one of those types at work a few weeks ago ,, gave my testimony said what the bible teaches about being born again ,went through the Gospel of the cross ,told him if he wants god ,,gods there he should just seek god and believe the Gospel of repentance and faith ,,

then 2 weeks latter another young man joined our crew ,and athey both found out they went to Catholic schools and were baptized ,,and the new guy called him self a catholic ,,,and so the gye i was witnessing statred to say am a chrisian also ,and he was telling others at work ,,i guy called john told me ,,he allready herd the Gospel new my story ,,so he was mocking the guy a little to me because he new enough about what the bible teaches about repentance and faith and the holy spirit by witnessing to know this guy was not born again far from an image of Christ ,,,,,

any way this guy Zak,,came up to me and said i am a Christian all ready ,,,and i explained to him that we to be set free by faith in Christ from or sin ,,,,he said but im not a sinner,,,i said have you stole anything ,,he said not since i was young ,,have you lied ,,he said not really ,,,mind you the whole crew was listening to this ,,then i felt the holy spirit bring to mind a few hours ago Zack ,stole a big bolt out of a box ,i saw him and said hey you cant take that ,,but he smiled and walked ,,,so i said to you just lied to me because you stole that bolt in front of me a few hours ago ...he said but that not steeling ,,,i explained to him it was ,and that he was Clearly a sinner and needs Jesus ever one was just listing ,,,i left it at that ,the next day Zack pick a small tool of the ground that the roofers drop ,and stole it ,and was busted and sacked ,lost his job ,,,i hope the holy spirit convicts him ,,,,,,,,

 2014/7/14 23:41Profile

Joined: 2007/4/25
Posts: 1529
Scotland, UK


Quote: Reading discernment sites do not get us closer to God but fill us with confusion, hurt, and dismay. If we seek to be closer to God in prayer then He will give us all the discernment we need by the Holy Spirit.

It very easy to jump to conclusions and assume that, but we don’t need a discernment site to let us know the true from the false as you say. It is our responsibility as a Christian to ensure that we are not taken captive. This something I have taken very seriously from the moment I became a Christian.

Quote: Tozer and others have believed also there are true believers in the Catholic church as well in other earlier churches.

For the first time this week I read Towzer book: The Pursuit of God, I must admit I struggled on to read it to the end as I found myself rejecting it, but I struggled on just to see where he would try and lead me. At the end of reading it I removed it from my computer and I will not read anymore of his books or quote from his writings. Why because I find the exact same teaching in his writings as all those contemplative teachers that he quotes from.

What is that teaching, for years I have sought a truth, can a Christian be set free from Sin, this has lead me into reading a lot of Holiness teachings. In those holiness teachings, I find something false that has wormed it's way in it's called “Quietism”. What is Quietism: A form of Christian mysticism enjoining passive contemplation and the beatific (joyful) annihilation of the will and absorption of the soul into the Divine Essence (Union with God).

Colin Murray

 2014/7/15 2:18Profile

Joined: 2006/9/13
Posts: 3156


"And he said, Go forth, and stand upon the mount before the Lord. And, behold, the Lord passed by, and a great and strong wind rent the mountains, and brake in pieces the rocks before the Lord; but the Lord was not in the wind: and after the wind an earthquake; but the Lord was not in the earthquake: And after the earthquake a fire; but the Lord was not in the fire: and after the fire a still small voice.

And it was so, when Elijah heard it, that he wrapped his face in his mantle, and went out, and stood in the entering in of the cave. And, behold, there came a voice unto him, and said, What doest thou here, Elijah? And he said, I have been very jealous for the Lord God of hosts: because the children of Israel have forsaken thy covenant, thrown down thine altars, and slain thy prophets with the sword; and I, even I only, am left; and they seek my life, to take it away." - 1 Kings 19:11-14

 2014/7/15 3:14Profile


There is a lot written about Quietism that is just plain wrong, and I don't know where I stand on it as I don't fully understand the various teachings on it, and there is also a great danger in it if it is not properly understood. At its basis, it seems, is the reality that when one walks in the Spirit, all impulse and therefore life, is to come from the Holy Spirit, as the core of ones being and the motions of the flesh or our human internal actions are stilled, so that it is Christ living within us and not us. But it is hard to put it into words exactly - it has to be experienced. It is not a death to the self which is from eastern religions, but that self is denied.

Passive contemplation or indeed contemplation is another thing that is being misunderstood and confused with eastern religions again.

Contemplation, in traditional mysticism, is the state where one is united with God in spirit, when one is set free from the power of sin, and where one dwells in the light.

Passive contemplation, is the act whereby God infuses this state as grace, without any action being taken by man, it is a gift and can only be given when God alone decides.

In this state, self will is annihilated, but that does not mean that man cannot bring his self will back to life if he chooses, and gets back down from the cross as it were. It does not mean that self is annihilated, just that self direction is and one is directed purely by the Holy Spirit.

Our souls are absorbed into the divine essence when we are one with the Father in His holiness.

It is so very close to eastern religions and it takes discernment to know the difference but it is a fatal error to dismiss the real and the fake. Men have always strove to reach that state of perfection, but have devised ways of re-enacted it without the necessary sacrifice and worship to God alone, worshiping idols instead. But it is possible to gain some of the benefits through brainwashing and putting self to death.

 2014/7/15 5:04

Joined: 2006/11/26
Posts: 3502



Isn't it strange that a book like "The Pursuit
of God" can caused you to reject it but it
created in me just the opposite effect of
hungering and thirsting after God, wanting
to know Him more?

I agree with Greg about the heresy hunter
websites. Those that write on these web
sites are focused so much on the error
and heresy that they actually are blind to
the truth. You will never arrive at true
discernment by studying what is wrong
With everyone , but when you hunger and
thirst for truth, that which is false will be
clearly revealed.



 2014/7/15 6:10Profile

Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5390



I feel the same way about "The Pursuit of God." Very powerful and exhortative.

Is there anyone that discerment sites approve of? I am not sure if I have ever seen that. Maybe the apostle Paul but even that might be questionable because of Rom. 7.


 2014/7/15 6:18Profile


I totally agree with you Mike. The Pursuit of God encouraged me to want to know Him more. Many heresy hunting sites I have checked out over the years are coming from a cessasionist angle and have complete contempt, dare I even say even hatred, for any person who believes in the gifts and in speaking to God personally and in hearing God speak. This is the essence of the truly religious person, who despises the thought that God actually speaks to His children and His children know that still small voice............bro Frank

 2014/7/15 9:52

Joined: 2011/2/6
Posts: 49


Salvation is a Person. This Person lives within . Therefore the outworking of our faith will not be an Imitation. It is a Participation.

First Aspect of the Cross: Christ died for me. Those who stop here will try Imitation ' little value in this' could only be a wooden, artificial thing.'[See Love chapter I Corinthians 13] F.J.Huegel
Second Aspect of the Cross: I died with Christ. Dying to self rule. Participation in Christ's resurrected power comes only to those who have experienced death to self.

Harold J. Brokke penned the words. "So much more O Saviour, show me, of the meaning of thy Cross; Break to me the bread of Calv'ry lest my soul should feed on dross.

Bone of His Bone author F.J.Huegel writes- It is not, as someone of our British brethren has said, a great stir in the realm of fleshly doing, but a Divine dying which will bring the Church again to a flaming Apostolic zeal, and a fruitfulness comparable to that of primitive Christians.
So far from attempting to patch man up, and then leaving him to IMITATE as best he can the pattern given two thousand years ago in Judea, Christ takes him down in the grave where the " old life" is utterly terminated , and then makes him the PARTICIPANT of His resurrection. Christ
our Lord fastens us to Himself and imparts to us an entirely " new Life". But we have the new upon the basis of our REFUSAL of the old.

Christ is the Vine, we are the branches. He is the Head, we form the body.
Exceeding great and precious promises are given us, " that by these we might be PARTAKERS of the Divine Nature. 2 Peter 1:4;

" We are made PARTAKERS of Christ" Heb. 3:14;

"The riches of the glory of this mystery- Christ IN you the hope of glory." Col.1:21


 2014/7/15 11:14Profile

Joined: 2006/9/13
Posts: 3156


"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God."
- John 3:16-21

 2014/7/15 17:01Profile

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