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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Practicing the Presence of God

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These words are a softening from a man who may sense he had stepped over the mark. I pray that is the case amrkelly and you are willing to take the low road and humble yourself but if not I would urge you to tone down the drama and calm down.



My advise would be to call for my removal and spare me the patronising comments.

You have no idea what I am doing or why.

 2014/7/20 10:31









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This will be the last time I respond to you borther Andrew on this point as we are now in the realm of the bizarre. Here below is a copy and past of what you said, with the previous paragraph and the following paragraph, then I will take the advice of brother Awakened with the words of Paul West from a long time ago " play the ball and not the man." I love you brother and my prayers are with you. Here is what you wrote after being offended by my putting the Catholic Church in the same category as Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses who do not have a proper view of who Jesus is, the beginning of all cults...........

"In Islam, Al'Masih Isa is Jesus. In Mormonism Jesus is a son of God, in the JW cult, Jesus is Michael the archangel. If you were to ask me therefore whether their were any born again believers in these three cults I would have a responsibility to say that they are all completely false because they have another Christ and not the Son of God at all therefore there can be none of His in their ranks. The very same thing could be said for the Mashiach of present day orthodox Jews. They too have in mind a different Christ, at the heart of which lies not only an inevitable rejection of true Christ, but the acceptance of another christ who does not conform to the true revelation of God in the Law, the Prophets and in finality of the testimony of Christ Himself.

Rome on the other hand is fully and properly comprehending of true Christ.

If you cannot make this distinction and understand its effect then you have no place teaching others anything about that which ails the Roman Church. You ought to especially draw back from bearing witness of the Christ you do know to those who have as much likelihood of putting their faith in Him as you have yourself. This is of course speaking about those who are of Rome. We ought not to make the mistake of failing to separate truth from error and then the gospel from another gospel. The Gospel is one thing and Christ Himself is a greater than the gospel. The gospel speaks of Christ crucified for sin as the Son of Man and Christ Himself speaks of He who was with the Father from the beginning, even the Son of God."

 2014/7/20 10:31









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What offends me Frank is wilful and deliberate ignorance and a false self righteous rhetoric. I am the only person on this forum with the courage to say it knowing that it means the inevitable queue of self righteous hagglers.

There is nothing bizarre about it at all. It's really very simple. I would rather be rejected completely than have to do with such self righteous and ill informed men as I see in this place and I really do not care in the least part what you think of me or whether you love me or not. Save you insincere garbage for someone else Frank. It is wasted on me.

 2014/7/20 10:41
MaryJane
Member



Joined: 2006/7/31
Posts: 3057


 Re:

by amrkelly on 2014/7/20 7:41:03

What offends me Frank is wilful and deliberate ignorance and a false self righteous rhetoric. I am the only person on this forum with the courage to say it knowing that it means the inevitable queue of self righteous hagglers.

There is nothing bizarre about it at all. It's really very simple. I would rather be rejected completely than have to do with such self righteous and ill informed men as I see in this place and I really do not care in the least part what you think of me or whether you love me or not. Save you insincere garbage for someone else Frank. It is wasted on me.

___________________

Is this really the heart JESUS would have for us to speaking with one another. I understand the topic is a difficult one and there are differing points of view but surely we can speak to one another in love and not resort to this kind of speech.

God bless
maryjane

 2014/7/20 10:47Profile









 Re:

Quote:
Is this really the heart JESUS would have for us to speaking with one another. I understand the topic is a difficult one and there are differing points of view but surely we can speak to one another in love and not resort to this kind of speech.



MaryJane, thank you for your concerns but there is really no answer to your question and I accept that things will be as they will be. I intended to say what I said and I remain in that mind. I am not one for turning back and feigning a religious rhetoric simply to appease the wilful foolishness of others. Please do not concern yourself with this man. I have no concerns with yourself and so there is peace between us.

 2014/7/20 10:55
Oracio
Member



Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 1994
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

appolus writes:

Quote:
In it's simplest of terms, Jesus tells us we cannot serve two masters we will love the one and hate the other, or a better translation, prefer the other. This has been my experience with Catholic Charsimatics. Speak a single word against the doctrines of the Catholic Church and you will be dis-felowshipped. You see, Catholic doctrine is not optional for a Catholic. The Pope, in their minds, is infallible in matters of faith and morals. He is the ultimate authority on earth, he is Christ on earth. We were warned that Satan can appear as an angel of light and if anyone comes with a different doctrine from that which we have been taught through the Sciptures, they are to be rejected. Catholicism is so far removed from Biblical doctrine it would be hard to know where to begin. .............bro Frank



Yes, I too have had that kind of experience in trying to reason with Catholics concerning some of those serious aberrations. I remember one time I met a young lady who seemed to be a pretty devout Catholic. From all the things she was sharing with me it seemed to me that she may truly know the Lord. But once I started trying to share certain concerns with her the walls immediately went up and she couldn’t see any validity in anything I was sharing, concerning things like praying to Mary and the saints, relics, etc. Eventually she invited me to one of her meetings and I invited her to an evangelistic event put up by the church I was attending, and I did go to her meeting and she did come to the evangelistic event. She may have told some of her group ahead of time that I was coming because it seemed some were giving me weird looks. Especially when I didn’t go along with their singing and praying to Mary, or their veneration of a crucifix they had in the front for people to approach and pray to and kiss. Needless to say I was deeply grieved in my spirit and regretted attending that meeting.

I believe the Phelps group is a valid example of how groups can believe in the Trinity and yet be a cult. Believing in the deity of Christ is not enough, for even the demons believe and tremble at His name.


_________________
Oracio

 2014/7/20 12:21Profile









 Re:

Hi Maryjane,

There is an ancient hatred for all those who stand upon the truth. Look back down through the corridors of the last 1800years and see how millions of our brothers and sisters fared when they dared to challenge one of the most evil, if not the most evil institutions the world has ever known. There is a ferocity in the evil that is released when Catholicism is seriously challenged. The saints of all centuries have felt it, the reformers felt it, and I say this, we shall feel it again. Yet, praise God, in every century there have been, by the grace of God, lovers of the truth who were willing to stand upon it no matter how strong the winds of hatred blew against them. God always has His people just as He has them today and I praise Him for it.

When I first came to Jesus, for two years I shared Jesus on a Catholic web page. You cannot believe the hatred that was poured out, so much so that one women recognized this was evil and actually came to Jesus because she witnessed the spewing out of evil for one who was simply sharing the truth. I had the privledge to meet her when she came to Kansas for a Christian conference. She is not the only Catholic I have personally witnessed to that I have seen set free by the power of God and by His Truth. He who the Son sets free is free indeed. I would that every Catholic would be set free from the bondage of its wickedness.........bro Frank

 2014/7/20 13:48









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Yes the demons do believe and tremble at His name. But what is it they believe? When we are done proving that which does not need to be proven. namely the errors of the RCC, when do you suppose we will get around to representing the word of God properly and soundly?

The demons believe that God is one! That is what James says. If the allusion is always to prove Roman Catholics cannot be true christians by such means we are become false. The oneness of God is not a basis for salvation and never has been. It is a basis for fearing God, which is the beginning of wisdom. It is the prophetic word of Moses given before the deliverance of the Law of God. It is the very reason to fear God, because he is one. Moreover Christ did not die for the demons.

Roman Catholics believe a great deal more than that there is one God, so to use this verse to support or elude to the idea that somehow it corresponds with notions of the Trinity or to an understanding of Who Christ truly is, and in the context of that to His death and resurrection is false.

How we try to deny that others believe, even though we are not their judge, and in truth we have no knowledge whether they believe or not. Only the Lord knows who are His.

As Mr Phelps is become the beacon of hope in this defamation of the benefit and effect of the death and resection of Christ to those who believe in Him, I conclude that Mr Phelps hope was in Christ. The fact that he effectively started a cult is irrelevant. Being a cult is no basis for eternal damnation, it is unbelief. We all know however that there is a desire to hang the man and by the hand of the most righteous shall he indeed hang. Hang the man and watch him dance sufficient for the cause. Thereafter we will all be grateful for the obedience of those who are not minded to hang and in it we will call them brother. I would rather hang personally.

 2014/7/20 13:57









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"Is this really the heart JESUS would have for us to speaking with one another. I understand the topic is a difficult one and there are differing points of view but surely we can speak to one another in love and not resort to this kind of speech."

Thank you for saying this sister and of course this is why I shared those scriptures on this thread, because there actually IS an answer to your question! This is NOT the heart of Jesus and we all need to remember that it is not all about us ...this is a public forum and we must be respectful to one another and season our words with grace so that we are a good testimony to visitors. If that is not something that we are willing to submit to then it is better to shut our mouths and stop talking.

 2014/7/20 15:09









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Quote:
Thank you for saying this sister and of course this is why I shared those scriptures on this thread, because there actually IS an answer to your question! This is NOT the heart of Jesus and we all need to remember that it is not all about us ...this is a public forum and we must be respectful to one another and season our words with grace so that we are a good testimony to visitors. If that is not something that we are willing to submit to then it is better to shut our mouths and stop talking.



You are correct Mark there is an answer to MaryJane's question. But it not one I would extend to a sister. I feel sure you will take my meaning well.

The most hateful and cruel people I have known without exception have been those who take the name of Christ. I have often wondered why. When asked in the right frame of mind, namely when the one being asked thinks you are for them, the answer is alway the sweetest answer imaginable. The same when asked in a challenge will almost always answer with indignity. Simply observe from a distance and you will see how quickly the same as these will condemn others out of hand. Were it not for the fact that I know Christ lives, I would have set myself apart from most christians permanently many years ago. It is only because of the Lord that I persist.

And here we are then where all it takes is for a man to say the word "garbage" and he immediately becomes a devil and a hateful man. The Lord Himself spoke more harshly than I have ever done in this place. I could show you the passages but I know you have no interest in these things. You are too wise and too knowledgable to consider that you actually have no idea who I am or what I am like or in fact anything about me at all. You judge me on the basis of a few plain words and disregard reams of sound wisdom.

You made a decision to comment on this thread and direct your comments to me personally, now in your superiority you presume to speak about me and yet to do so in disregard of me as a person. To you I spoke plainly and straight forwardly and I do that in every post. Many christians are hypocrites and fools. Whether you like to hear it or not the evidence is easily gathered.

You speak about seasoning our words with grace in order that we might be a good testimony to visitors. The history of the churches is ample evidence of the many who have been stumbled by outwards shows of righteousness and propriety, but in the end proved to be inwardly corrupt. Those who stumble at these things do so because they understand very well what hypocrisy is, even if in time they learn to bear with it. The whole of the contention on this thread so far as I am concerned, which is to say, that which directly involves myself, has to do with a single point. It is the overwhelming need of christians to judge and condemn millions of men and women who's lives are for the most part so full of misery and suffering that they are disinclined to be so hypocritical as we superior well informed men and women are. We condemn on doctrinal grounds and neglect the most basic reality of the mercy of God.

This is not the dark ages. We are not contending for the word of God with our very lives. The bible is not hidden it is in full view. Every week I post into Islamic countries around the world in Arabic and I do so without the remotest possibility of either being harmed or even tested. We are not contending against wickedness which will lay hold of us and tear our bodies into pieces. The only thing we have to contend with is the inclinations of the flesh to be lazy and unwilling to write the articles and make the post.

Frank thinks that being hated in an internet chatroom is persecution. I have news for Frank because persecution is what is happening in Syria and Iraq right now. Of those christians we say pray for our brethren. Yet their tradition is as corrupt and as idolatrous as that of Rome. But we say they speak Aramaic the language which Jesus spoke and so we imagine that they must somehow be special and therefore true believers. We judge things superficially and in doing so we become hypocrites. Yet many of them could well be true believers.

Please don't tell me to keep my mouth shut Mark by means of a proxy comment. Whether you can see it or not that is a prime example of hypocrisy. You do not say it me, but you say it to another about me. I think that it would be better for the visitors of this site to see reality Mark and not a version of it, convoluted into self righteous words which amount to no more than whitewashing the tomb full of dead mens bones. Unlike you Mark I do not need the company of men. So whatever happens to me I can walk with it and be at peace. It is for that reason that I have said anyone can ask for me to be thrown off the site anytime they want. Not as you imagined because I had realised that I had stepped too far. Mark I did not step far enough and had we been face to face you would have known it in clearer words than those I wrote on here.

 2014/7/20 15:53





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