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 Re:

Andrew

I wonder why it is that you feel that you have the role of correcting your brethren on this forum, going into great detail of where they are wrong, yet if the table is turned and someone pulls you up instead, they feel the lash of your tongue followed by often sinister barely concealed threats? You should be prepared to accept what you hand out.

 2014/7/20 2:09









 Re:

Quote:
I wonder why it is that you feel that you have the role of correcting your brethren on this forum, going into great detail of where they are wrong, yet if the table is turned and someone pulls you up instead, they feel the lash of your tongue followed by often sinister barely concealed threats? You should be prepared to accept what you hand out.



That is an easy question to answer Brenda. It has been given to me to do it. If I go into great detail as you have said I do and another makes a single one line constructed reply then the answer as to whether that amounts to a reasonable way to conduct oneself lays in the detail and the lack thereof.

I take it that people can read what is written.

Frank presents himself in the prophetic voice almost all of the time. Yet when he is asked if he is a prophet he declines to formally answer it. His answers are convoluted and resist proper meaning. In fact anyone who comes presenting in the prophetic voice needs to be tested and challenged. The worse that can happen is that you will discover a false prophet and not a real one. I am not saying that Frank is a false anything, least of all a false prophet. We had this discussion more than a year ago and I acknowledged then that he had never said anything which directly constituted a claim to prophetic ministry and calling. Yet following on from that acknowledgement I have seen time and again that Frank uses prophetic language to express end time events in which he posts that Rome has a full and leading role. None of which requires a prophetic anything. You only have to read one of many thousands of books to say it.

Frank consistently fails to understand and draw a proper distinction between men and women and a religious system. As it is compassion which the Lord seeks to extend to His people, this is a massive mistake and a certain evidence of not having a real understanding of either Rome or its men and women.

There are others, Blaine for instance, who call upon Frank and Mary Jane to bear witness of their coming out of Rome to counter Greg's attempts to show a balance when we speak of Rome, especially in its historical meaning. I have a ministry to Rome, and that is especially to the darkest meaning of it, and if I were to speak of what the Lord has shown me it would result in more hearty amens from the like of those brethren who appear to endlessly put Rome down, by which they mistakenly put down its people as well. Whereas I will not put Rome down as they do.

Further, in that effort the same as these may easily cause offence to men and women of Rome, fail to truly discern who is saved and who is lost, they repeat age old statements which have no more meaning in this age in which we live and thus they are about a dead work.

As to why I correct you Brenda specifically well you know why so how does asking it have any other purpose that to provoke me into some foolish action of words?

If you want me off the forum ask Greg to remove me Brenda, as can Frank or anyone else. But as long as I am here I will post according to what my conscience tells me. When I make a fool of myself, as at times I do, I know before anyone else knows it and I do not remove the foolish comments to preserve myself.

So Brenda there we have it then. I have said it before Brenda and I say it again. If anyone believes that I need correction they are free in the Lord to correct me. But let it be a correction and not a snare of hypocrisy.

 2014/7/20 2:31
murrcolr
Member



Joined: 2007/4/25
Posts: 1529
Scotland, UK

 Re:

Quote: Those who suffer in this way, invariably have to put up also, like Job, with the lack of empathy from those who have an easier pathway, and who chant the usual scriptures, not understanding that there is a trial we sometimes are required to go through, a crucible and a wine-press, whereby we are forced to enter another level of being, chosen for a few, where they do learn to have peace and joy in the midst of God removing His presence, which is the worst trial of all, but the process of doing so can take years of being in darkness and despair, increased in intensity by the lack of understanding and fellowship by the main body of the church who judge us as being at fault. I am sure that Bro Lawrence went through this.

Now now Brenda your turning all mystical on us, writing about the dark knight of the soul.

But how does that statement "God removing His presence" fit with scripture?

Be strong and courageous. Do not fear or be in dread of them, for it is the Lord your God who goes with you. He will not leave you or forsake you. Duet 31:9

Keep your life free from love of money, and be content with what you have, for he has said, “I will never leave you nor forsake you. Hebrews 13:5

For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 8:38-39

Is God a liar, will he break his promise.


_________________
Colin Murray

 2014/7/20 4:06Profile









 Re:

Quote:
Is God a liar, will he break his promise.



Colin, Of course not, but there is a trial which we find depicted in the book of Job, when God SEEMS to have deserted us, and Him hiding His face has nothing to do with any sin we have committed. We see it too when Jesus hung on the cross and cried out 'My God, my God why?'

We know that He will never leave us or desert us, mentally that is, but there is a time where it feels like He has become our enemy and does nothing to help us when we are in dire need - and it can go on for years.

It is actually a blessing, to be chosen for this pathway, but in the midst of the suffering, before one is given light on the reason and purpose of it, the depths of despair are reached, because we are desperate to find Him and we have a humble and repentant heart, yet still He is not to be found. Of course this trial is for those who have known Him intimately, not for the 'far off' ones.

Yep okay it is the dark night and made even darker when we are scorned whilst in it. But even that is to our blessing when we emerge, in the light with full glory. Allelulia!

 2014/7/20 4:16
murrcolr
Member



Joined: 2007/4/25
Posts: 1529
Scotland, UK

 Re:

For your information; when I stopped attending the church and I was praying letting him know why I wasn't going back, the calling on my life and how he was going to do it.

His reply to me was "you'll be like Job"...

There is a sifting; And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren. Luke 22:31-32.

I don't know the reason why, but God allows it.


_________________
Colin Murray

 2014/7/20 4:48Profile









 Re:

These are two different types of trial. One is, as you say, when we are refusing to allow God to have His way with us, but the other is not the same.

In the first, all one has to do is repent, and go back to Nineva as it were. The other one cannot be ended like that and has to be endured until God chooses to appear in the whirlwind.

I have experienced the first, when I was rebellious regarding the conditions that God was providing in my life. I looked around and God was blessing others yet I knew that they were much less obedient than I was. I had believed that if we commit ourselves to serving Him, then our needs would be provided for, and I am not talking about wants here, I mean needs like being able to afford new shoes instead of having to wear ones that did not actually fit properly. That sort of thing.

It took a crisis for me to submit and say 'thy will not mine' in all things.

The other trial is not spoken of much as it does not seem to match with scriptures as you have pointed out. But reading Job we can see that he was actually righteous from the start and only sank into despair when God's presence left and not when his worldly gifts were removed. This trail is not about sin but it is to refine a man until he comes out as gold.

You speak of Peter and indeed Satan had him but he had sinned at the start so I think that the trial there was the first one and not the second.

Mystics write about the second type.

 2014/7/20 5:05
murrcolr
Member



Joined: 2007/4/25
Posts: 1529
Scotland, UK

 Re:

Quote: You speak of Peter and indeed Satan had him but he had sinned at the start so I think that the trial there was the first one and not the second.

I don't see it that way, I see it as a attack on their faith "But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not".

Like Job, he believed that you shouldn’t curse God in the heart,“ rose up early in the morning, and offered burnt offerings according to the number of them all: for Job said, It may be that my sons have sinned, and cursed God in their hearts”

It was faith that was being attacked, in Job’s case you shouldn’t curse God in the heart and in the disciple case, the faith in Christ as they were about to see him crucified.


_________________
Colin Murray

 2014/7/20 7:06Profile









 Re:

Brother Andrew writes, and then denies writing,

"Rome on the other hand is fully and properly comprehending of true Christ."

This is an exact quote, one may simply scroll back one page and read for themselves. Just not sure where you are coming from brother denying you said this, very strange. Anyway it is, as I stated, not true. Very few, if any on this forum would agree with your statement " Rome on the other hand is fully and properly comprehending of true Christ." ..........bro Frank

 2014/7/20 9:23









 Re:

"If you want me off the forum ask Greg to remove me Brenda, as can Frank or anyone else. But as long as I am here I will post according to what my conscience tells me. When I make a fool of myself, as at times I do, I know before anyone else knows it and I do not remove the foolish comments to preserve myself. "

These words are a softening from a man who may sense he had stepped over the mark. I pray that is the case amrkelly and you are willing to take the low road and humble yourself but if not I would urge you to tone down the drama and calm down. If I was in a public place gathered with other Christians and there was a disagreement and one person stood up saying "I rebuke you in the name of The Lord Jesus Christ " I would say the same thing I am saying above..."thats enough - calm down please". If it happened in my private home I would ask the person leave and go home and collect himself. This kind of behavior and rebuking of another in such a high minded manner, is completely uncalled for and reeks of spiritual arrogance.

While I am not calling for your removal, I will say to you amrkelly that you should consider removing yourself for a season and take care of your own heart. I rarely if ever hear an encouraging or edifying word from you these days. You may dismiss that and say your "calling" is prophetic...but to that I would say:
"Let your speech always be with grace, as though seasoned with salt, so that you will know how you should respond to each person."

I along with Paul through the scriptures, I appeal to you and others here who have progressed beyond an edifying discussion to now fighting over Brother Lawrence or Tozer or the RCC..."Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you."

 2014/7/20 10:14









 Re:

Quote:
"Rome on the other hand is fully and properly comprehending of true Christ."

This is an exact quote, one may simply scroll back one page and read for themselves. Just not sure where you are coming from brother denying you said this, very strange. Anyway it is, as I stated, not true. Very few, if any on this forum would agree with your statement " Rome on the other hand is fully and properly comprehending of true Christ." ..........bro Frank



It is like breaking rock communicating sometimes.

Frank I know what I said brother because I wrote it. So why do you keep missing your own words. If this were not important it would be a pointless exercise.

Frank your own words in claiming to quote me were:

After making the statement that the Church of Rome full and properly comprehends the true Jesus I am glad you are not going to respond any more brother. I will leave your above statements to the discernment of those on the forum............bro Frank

That isn't what I said Frank and it is in fact a complete misdirection of what I said. Whether you realise it or not your use of the words "Rome full and properly comprehends the true Jesus" is a new age saying. True Jesus is who precisely Frank? There have been many men called Jesus and the man who was released from his murder charge in favour of the death of Christ was called Jesus.

I know that you hate these instances of mine but in misquoting me Frank you have shown that you have not understood what I said in context of saying "Rome on the other hand is fully and properly comprehending of true Christ' as well as "Rome by a reality of centuries has in its folds a true and proper understanding of the person of Jesus Christ." What is difficult about you either acknowledging, or else if not, at least understanding that in the context of Islam, Mormonism and the JW cult, Rome alone knows what the meaning of the name of Christ Jesus really is. I am not speaking about a language class, I am speaking about knowing and understand by faith that Jesus the Messiah (Mashiach) or else Christ (ho Christos) is the Son of God.

You don't have to agree with me but to wilfully refuse to see something so simple is a falsehood, and it is borne out of a desire to deny Rome at all costs and in all circumstances no matter what the consequence may be.

Frank I haven't written these things without proper qualified context. Blaine resisted and questioned Greg openly and then invited you and Mary Jane to back him up with your testimony to the truth of his claims. Greg pressed a simple point which had to do with trying to understand that the Catholic Church was in the first instance, a reference to the world wide church, what we might today call the true Church. It took more than four centuries for the Roman Catholic Church to appear and even then it took nearly 800 years to come to its most blasphemous condition. Many of the doctrines which are hated did not arise until the middle ages.

You cannot but see the rationale of these sayings but you insist on speaking against them or else ignoring them. As for my own posts I have really only made one simple point and that is this one in response to the misleading claim that Rome is the same as Mormonism and the JW cult which you made to rebut me saying:

"If there is even one single man or woman who belongs to an RC Church who is a true believer in the death and resurrection of Christ, then we have a series problem, do we not? "

To which you replied:

"Of course we do not. It's a false premise. You could make that argument about Mormonism or Jehovah's witness's or Phelps church in Kansas or the Ayrian brotherhood."

I disregarded the comment about the Phelps congregation and the Arian Brotherhood because they are so hateful that it seems to matter little what they believe. On the other hand the Mormons and the JW Cult are made up of overwhelmingly decent men and women who hold to conservative values. Thus in their case the name of Christ carries some weight to others. I was showing you Frank that the christ they name is not Christ at all, whereas Roman Catholics, who are also often decent and respectable people, who value and embrace conservative values, actually do know who Christ really is.

You missed it all Frank because you are too busy peddling a historical message which carries no meaning anymore.

You are free to say what you please, but I am free to say that it is wrong. So I write to try and show that one can find a proper balance in these things, or at least see that the RCC, despite all of its errors and blasphemies still holds a core and central understanding of who Christ really is in keeping with the Law, the Prophets and Christ Himself.

It's not difficult Frank. So why make it so difficult?

 2014/7/20 10:24





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