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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Do you hate the Government?

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Yeshuasboy
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Joined: 2006/6/10
Posts: 668
Northern Rockies, BC, Canada

 Re:

This solemn and profound thought came to me some time back, in which made a deep impression on my mind, "If you want Light, then don't look into the darkness."

Quote: "A distraction".... Oh, how indded subtle the devil is dear Frank.

This also comes to me: the 2 sisters - one choosing the better way, that is, sitting at the Master's feet and learning of Him; the other, worried about many things, running to and fro, even with sincere intention.

Hating the government: This comes to me - "What is that to thee, follow Me."

The Lord be with you in Spirit and in Truth.


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Richie

 2014/4/21 19:50Profile
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 Re:

Quote:
13 Submit yourselves for the Lord’s sake to every human authority: whether to the emperor, as the supreme authority, 14 or to governors, who are sent by him to punish those who do wrong and to commend those who do right.



It seems the Scriptures are clear that we should submit to human authority and respect it. To Hate government would be the anti-thesis of this. Of course we must obey God and not men when it comes to moral or scriptural beliefs.


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2014/4/21 20:01Profile
timg
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Joined: 2008/8/23
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 Re: Do you hate the Government?

I do not hate the government but I do know that we are not a democracy, communist, fascist, but a constitutional republic.
This country was established to operate under law. Many of those laws were based on scripture.
As a child of God we are required to do good to all people. As such I try to support those who protect others and keep from doing wrong.
Is it wrong to steal? Is it wrong to steal from others even if 99% percent of the people think it is ok and even use the government to do so?
Was slavery wrong?
How about the persecution of the Jews and eventual murder of the same in Germany during WW2?
My point is that sometimes we as Christians use our spiritual calling to shirk off the duty of the physical.
I do not believe "give to Ceasar what is Ceasar's " should be used as an excuse do nothing when others are being taken advantage of or even abused. We are called to be a light and a beacon to the lost. We should never lose sight of that. However, we are not called to watch and do nothing when it is in our power to do good.

 2014/4/22 4:03Profile









 Re:

Ting writes........

"I do not believe "give to Ceasar what is Ceasar's " should be used as an excuse do nothing when others are being taken advantage of or even abused. We are called to be a light and a beacon to the lost. We should never lose sight of that. However, we are not called to watch and do nothing when it is in our power to do good."

It is always the same old accusation. " An excuse to do nothing." The testimony of the Body of Christ on this earth is a glorious one. Ting, do you know how many saints have been martyred down through the centuries? Millions, it is in the millions. There have been more saints killed for their stand for Jesus than there has been American soldiers dead on the battle-field of men's wars. This is the light of the world, this is the testimony of the saints. When you pass on into glory ting, you can ask these dear saints why they did nothing..............bro Frank

 2014/4/22 5:49
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 Re:

Quite the response there bro Frank. You will note that I said when it is in our power to do something to protect others. I believe that we will give an account for that.
I do not believe those who are martyred for Christ did nothing, just for the record.

 2014/4/22 6:06Profile









 Re:

Hi timg,

Quite the response to quite the broad charge brother. Do you know, some think that praying is doing nothing? And many wonder why they cannot see God move even although they get involved with politics and lobby congress and strive mightily in the realm of men, and men, slowly but surely regress as of course they will continue to. ( not so slowly anymore)

The last century was the most deadliest in the history of mankind. I have no reason to think this century will be any better, and according to Scripture, the last days will be like the days of Noah. Now what is my response to the fact that the days of Noah are upon us and will get worse? Just when we need prayer the most, you can barely get anyone to come to a prayer meeting. Yet, and I am sure this is not you brother, people will spend endless hours watching News shows and listening to talk radio who consistently encourage people to fight for their rights and to despise those who are not like them. They stand with their chests puffed out, declaring themselves to be the " makers," and heap scorn on those they consider to be the " takers." And in the same breath as declaring themselves to the world as the " makers," many then with another breath say that everything they have is God's and God given. It cannot be both.............bro Frank

 2014/4/22 10:03
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 Re:

Let me say that everything man does without a repentant heart and submission to the will God will be utter vanity and offensive to His Holiness.
Indeed this a vast topic and we must take careful consideration to the actions we should take. The consequences for any action we decide to take is great.
I confess I do not have all the answers, but it is prudent to be humble and not accusatory in this extremely important debate.
I have read many things that you have written in the past brother Frank and tend to agree with most things.
I too believe that prayer is the most important thing that all of us should do. It is also true that it is easy to deceive ourselves into thinking we are accomplishing great things for God by going to rallies, protesting injustice, and generally complaining.
Having said that however, I have asked myself many times what is my duty to my fellow man as a Christian?
Have we no duty to protect the down trodden and oppressed when we are able? Do we just watch when we have been given a means to act?
When the government that has been established by God to do good abuses that power and enslaves it's people and breaks the very law in which it has sworn to protect, Do we pray alone?
Of course we all agree that abortion is wrong. It is murder in fact. Our government indorses murder, and we the people allow it. Should we pray alone or act using every conceivable way that God has given us to stop it?
What if it became legal for all people with blonde hair had to give all their possessions to people with brown hair? Do we watch as all the people with blonde hair have every thing taken (stolen) from them?
God has given the law not only to point us to Christ, but also to show what pleases Him. We can be an example to the lost when we show them the value of His law and the importance in keeping it.
We are to love our neighbor. The book of James makes it clear that if do not give to the needy when we are able our faith is dead.
These are some of the things that I am weighing my mind as I consider what I should do with the gifts God has given me.

In Christ alone,
Tim

 2014/4/22 10:59Profile









 Re:

brother Frank, this is not aimed at you and really doesn't help you in your quest to know why some people hate the government so please do not feel compelled to respond.

We should not hate the government, yet we should not make the mistake in believing that the government are the supreme authority over us either.

When the Apostle Peter tells us on to honor the King we must not check our brains at the door:) This is the same man, remember who did NOT honor the King when it came to certain issues and got imprisoned because of it.

There are God fearing believers right now in legal fights with the government because the government has told them that they cannot feed the homeless. One such case is a pastor in Oneonta Alabama who has been told by his friendly neighborhood government to stop handing out hotdogs and water to the homeless because he needs a permit to sell food. Yet he is not selling it, only giving it away. There are many more cases too, such as a woman who had been feeding hungry neighborhood kids for 22 years and was told to stop for similar reasons. Insanity! This old lady actually decided to disobey the authorities and feed the kids...naughty naughty!!!

Then there are the more "biblical' examples of believers who are forbidden from witnessing in public places by authorities...I think we all know what the right thing to do in this case is right? Honor the King? Yes, King Jesus!!!

So what should we do in all these things? Just submit to the authorities and honor the King? Maybe or maybe not. Each person must make that judgement themselves and be led of the Lord...AND BE PREPARED TO ACCEPT THE CONSEQUENCES!!! If they believe that the Lord is leading them to rise up and challenge authority then who am I to knock them down?

Same goes for believers who picket government funded abortion clinics or march on Washington in anti-abortion rallies. This is not my "cup of tea" but I certainly am not going to rain on their parade and tell them that they are wasting their time. Who am I to know the reasons they feel so strongly about abortion - maybe they had an abortion and then got saved and now want to save as many young woman (and babies) from the same horror? Let's leave them alone, let each one do as they have purposed to do in their heart, as long as it honors the Lord.

As someone else alluded already, when my brother feels differently to me about certain non-essential issues the Lord would say "what is that to you Mark...just follow Me."

 2014/4/22 13:29









 Re:

Hi Tim,

Brother, I too believe we must be careful and considerate when we talk about such subjects. I appreciate the fact that you are weighing these things in your mind brother. As you know, I was responding to your " those who do nothing," statement. I refute, in the strongest terms, the notion that those who disagree with being involved with wars and politics are " doing nothing." That is why my emphasis was on prayer, something so many people pay lip service too but something so few people are involved with, perhaps you would disagree with that premise?

You write..........

"When the government that has been established by God to do good abuses that power and enslaves it's people and breaks the very law in which it has sworn to protect, Do we pray alone?"

Was government established to do good brother or was it established to rein in the forces of anarchy and chaos? It has been stated that the Pax Romana, the Roman peace of the time of Jesus allowed for the fast spread of the Gospel and that it was no coincidence that Jesus was born into that time. Th Romans did many wonderful things all at the same time as being completely barbaric, but the early saints were called to respect the authority.

Since you raised the subject of abortion Tim and the fact that you say you are called to help those who are helpless despite any law of a wicked Government. You write.....

"Have we no duty to protect the down trodden and oppressed when we are able? Do we just watch when we have been given a means to act?"

" Our government indorses murder, and we the people allow it. Should we pray alone or act using every conceivable way that God has given us to stop it?"

Now brother, that sounds wonderful. So let us say you have an abortion clinic in your town, which you may well have. So, you are quite happy to drive or walk past that every day? If war is correct, if you saw a person being attacked in the street and it is fine for you to attack the attacker or perhaps even kill the attacker if it is warranted , then why do you not go into the abortion clinic and kill the one who is murdering the babies? The law is clearly unjust that allows such actions, you say we cannot simply pray we must act, then why not act brother? Is it only words or should the children continue to die? You see my point? Of course I am not encouraging you to kill anyone, I am merely pointing out the logical conclusions of what you have put forward.

You see brother, I already know I live in a wicked country where the freedoms that men fight for, not Christ's freedom, political freedom, has led to this practice being allowed. The real truth is since there has been 55 million abortions, then there are 55 million murderers walking the streets and if they die in such a condition, they will be judged by a Holy God.

You see brother, I do understand it is a complicated subject.........bro Frank

 2014/4/22 13:31









 Re:

Hi bro Mark, I see no daylight in our opinions on this subject. The topic is " Do you hate the Government." Has any one every claimed that the Government is the supreme authority? For the record, I have never told anyone they were wasting their time doing anything, well I take that back, I have made the accusation that millions of people spend endless hours watching news shows and listening to talk radio that certainly does not stir up Godliness in them :)....... bro Frank

 2014/4/22 13:36





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