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Discussion Forum : Articles and Sermons : The Dark Side of Tithing Testimonies

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a-servant
Member



Joined: 2008/5/3
Posts: 435


 Re:

Just a little intermezzo regarding all this usual talk about
legalism and NT freedoms, I just did a 'phrase search'
for the term "prove me", and got only 3 results:

Job 9:20  If I justify myself, mine own mouth shall condemn me: if I say, I am perfect, it shall also prove me perverse.

Psalms 26:2  Examine me, O LORD, and prove me; try my reins and my heart.

Malachi 3:10  Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.


lets look at the details regarding who it is that says 'prove me':

1) Job

2) David

3) God

it is an invitation in all three case, not an invitaion to start a discussion, but an invitation to get practial about it. It's the only time by the way that God invites us to prove HIM. So why dont you? Because He said it in the OT? And now He changed His mind? That God that never changes?

Why don't we just 'prove him' on this, and be quiet? Are we scared that HE will respond? [and prove our theolgy to be wrong?]

 2014/4/11 20:12Profile









 Re:

I think He HAS proven Himself, by giving us the deposit of His Spirit whereby we cry Abba, Father. And He has given us a new spirit and a heart of flesh and is with us always, even unto the end of the world. That may be all some of us get in this life, but that's not bad, is it?

 2014/4/12 0:29
a-servant
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Joined: 2008/5/3
Posts: 435


 Re:

"I think He HAS proven Himself"

vs

"It's the only time by the way that God invites us to prove HIM."


justin thinks vs God says - its a no brainer for me, but thats just me

 2014/4/12 1:12Profile
havok20x
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Joined: 2008/9/14
Posts: 786


 Re:

A servant where does your tithe go?

 2014/4/12 7:48Profile









 Re:

a-servant, to go further, we do prove God's word every time we decide to trust in His words.

Again, men are quite mercenary and know how to weave money into every subject and even think that God is all about money.

 2014/4/12 9:41
PaulWest
Member



Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas

 Re:

Quote:
You stopped at the good part...lol. How did that come about?


Well, you only asked about my time Russia ;). My testimony is very dramatic - the events leading up to my conversion - and this thread with respect to Jimmy's topic is probably not the best place to go into detail. I'd be glad to share it elsewhere, though.


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Paul Frederick West

 2014/4/12 11:35Profile
havok20x
Member



Joined: 2008/9/14
Posts: 786


 Re:

Nathaniel.gardner(a)parker.com (a)=@

I would love to hear it brother.

 2014/4/12 12:33Profile
PaulWest
Member



Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas

 Re:

Quote:
we do prove God's word every time we decide to trust in His words.


Excellent point. All of God's "proofs" are consummated in the advent of Jesus Christ. All the validity a man can seek, the brokerage of every one of His promises in the OT, and the immortal assurance of His love and compassion for mankind are all encapsulated in Jesus Christ and in our spiritual marriage to Him. From this single union God grants us all we need. It is not right therefore to adapt a mindset that although I am in Jesus Christ, God is still somehow obligated to prove something more - especially when this proof is needing to be evidenced in the form of mammon.

Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, the life". He is Abundant Life - we all know this abundance is not only comprised of food and clothes and money, but much more: the very life of the Godhead in our spirits. The real treasure is not mere money (brought on by the proof necessitated by tithing, as some teach), but rather the Life of Jesus Christ in man.

The problem is that not many people have fully evaluated this Supreme Treasure. This is because the treasure of Christ does not translate over into abundant tangible means the way we have been accustomed to desire. God only giving us what we need in materialistic terms is banal and undesirable for most. People want to go above and beyond: they want the $350,000 home in the gated community, the luxury car, the top notch schools for their kids, six-figure salaries, instant freedom from debt - and are trained to expect all this from God as a proof of His "exceeding abundance" activated from the tithe, totally missing out on the true Pearl of Great Price in exchange for hunk of fake glass.

It's all a facade. Life is fleeting, riches are inconsolable, beauty goes. The pretty glass gets scratched with wear and tear over the years...and the soul of man is forever gaping and hungry for more glass, like a bottomless pit. During these crisis moments, is God still saying to man "Prove me through the tithe?" No, He is not. God says instead: "This is my Son in whom I am well pleased." Jesus then says, "Come to me, all you who are weary." Weary of not having enough money? Why come to Jesus. You can simply go to the laws of karma and give what's left in your bank account to a beggar, and magically you will get more money. This is a universal law, like gravity. It works for Buddhists, Muslims, Atheists - what goes around comes around.

Again, Jesus says "All you who are weary, come to Me." Weary of ill health? (Note, money and health are the main things all the gentiles in the world go after, whether they be atheistic or religious). You can get healed without Jesus; you can go to a psychosomatic healer and get healed by the power of the soul. Muslims and Baha'i and Mormons have just as many "healing miracle" testimonies as do Christians in their faiths. And they attribute it all to their gods. Indeed, the True God of Israel healed infirmities and gave monetary riches and saved from souls from hell (and even forgave sin!) for thousands of years under the Old Covenant, way before Jesus even went to the cross (see Psalms 103), yet many Christians still have this incorrect notion that God is waiting for them to "prove Him" in these areas via Christ, via the tithe.





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Paul Frederick West

 2014/4/12 12:35Profile
lovejt
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Joined: 2005/11/5
Posts: 121


 Re:

I have not read the entire thread but really appreciated what you wrote in detail earlier Paul. My initial church experience was with a place that required 3 tithes. I realized later it was not NC and 'rebelled' against it. Then they later realized their error and denounced it all. But then shortly after required just the first tithe. So, that was the straw that broke the camels' back for me. Some christians have been offended when they ask me about tithing and multiple offerings during a service but I don't bad mouth their church. Its wonderful to be free from all that guilt and mental gymnastics with giving and 'giving in public'. I don't want people to see me giving money. Wow, Police Academy. Did the humor rub off on you? ;)


_________________
james

 2014/4/12 15:34Profile
PaulWest
Member



Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas

 Re:

Quote:
Its wonderful to be free from all that guilt and mental gymnastics with giving and 'giving in public'. I don't want people to see me giving money. Wow, Police Academy. Did the humor rub off on you? ;)


It is wonderful indeed :) And it's a real privilege to teach this freedom, even though you often take criticism for it by people who do not understand. The understanding of freedom doesn't come right away. After the initial conversion, there is a process that takes years and years of learning to walk in this freedom, of being able to understand and enter into New Covenant rest. There's so much bad teaching out there, bad examples, things assimilated because of mainline practice and habits of denominationalism. Like the "passing of the collection basket" you mention. When did that come into practice? Did the Protestants just continue the tradition from the Catholics? I don't know its origin, but I do know it goes way back. When you get saved, chances are you get plugged into a church that passes the public basket and so you just comply and follow rote like everyone else - until you begin to get light on certain teachings of Jesus.

As far as the "Police Academy humor rubbing off", I always thought those movies were abysmally dumb, even before I was saved :) But I've always been a funny guy. I try really hard sometimes to restrain myself here!


_________________
Paul Frederick West

 2014/4/12 16:43Profile





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