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Maria
Member



Joined: 2003/6/8
Posts: 77
USA

 Re: Replying to Todd's recent post...

(Which I think is listed as another thread...oops! Sorry guys! I'm not too good with these things! If you want to read what he wrote go to the other thread I guess...)

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Quote:
"here's the other thing that caused my crisis. i realized how unfair, unjust, and especially unloving i had been towards all of these things and people. God basically told me to get a life and to shut my big mouth about it all. why did i care so much and spend so much of my time and life worrying about it? what about me? how am i experiencing God? i had fallen into the trap i see many people in (mostly because they are scared) of unrighteous judgement. it can make a person feel significant to think they are 'defending the faith.'"
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Unrighteous judgement would be judging ministers according to the flesh - by what we see on the outside, rather than seeing the fruit of their ministry (which isn't large crowds or signs and wonders). I believe Carter Conlon puts it best when he says that the real test of what is spoken is whether it causes the Kingdom of God to advance in the lives of His people. (Paraphrased)

Of course, we all must have a proper idea of what the Kingdom of God is ...

"For the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but RIGHTEOUSNESS and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit." Romans 14:17

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”concerning the 'new movement' that's going on:
why aren't some of these manifestations in the BIble? i don't know. we live in a very different time, things have changed since then i think. perhaps God just wanted to bless these people in this way for His own reasons. who are we to judge (by the flesh)?"
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This "holy spirit manifestation" thing makes me very, very sad. WE MUST BEGIN TO ASK OURSELVES THIS QUESTION: What is the purpose of the Holy Spirit?? Is it for signs and wonders? Or is "Power for Purity" (as my father likes to say)? The problem is, many do not even think or care to discern whether or not what is going on is truly edifying to the Body.

"What is the outcome then? I will pray with the spirit and I will pray with the mind also; I will sing with the spirit and I will sing with the mind also. Otherwise if you bless in the spirit only, how will the one who fills the place of the ungifted say the "Amen" at your giving of thanks, since he does not know what you are saying? For you are giving thanks well enough, but the other person is not edified. I thank God, I speak in tongues more than you all; however, in the church I desire to speak five words with my mind so that I may instruct others also, rather than ten thousand words in a tongue. Brethren, do not be children in your thinking; yet in evil be infants, but in your thinking be mature." 1 Corinthians 14:15-20 (I'm not posting this scripture to argue about the use of tongues - I am using it in a different context now .. which makes me ask another question: if these "manifestations" were truly of God, why didn't Paul emphasize "manifestations" strongly, instead of emphasizing basic principles of righteousness?)

To be frank, I have a hard time believing that God would desire His Church to be so "showy" and "light" (as in "lightness") as they gather together, while so many are going to hell! God's heart is broken - and not only because of those lost in the world, but also because of those who are lost in churches! Churches that preach more about "anointing" and "destiny" than they do about "righteousness and truth." (Eph 5:9)

"If anyone advocates a different doctrine and does not agree with sound words, those of our Lord Jesus Christ, and with the doctrine conforming to godliness, he is conceited and understands nothing..." 1 Timothy 6:3-4

I know what it's like to "feel the spirit fall" at these places - feeling this sense of awe and emotion - but also knowing what I was like on the inside! Dead! Dead in bondage to this flesh - and I wasn't freed until I got away from the altars that seemed "safe" and "full of life" and got on my knees and into the Word to find out what the REAL purpose for Church is!

Other comments I was responding to:

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"it's so interesting how half the church thinks they have the gift of discernment and yet these same people don't have any other gifts. the attitude is like 'i know God and so i can trust my instincts because God would not let me feel this way about it if it were true.'"
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Nobody said anything about trusting their instincts. I think they were saying just the opposite.

What really disturbed me, was this comment:
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“i saw it with my own eyes…how can i not believe? why would i assume it's a farce, a fake? why not just believe?”
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This is why I put up so many scriptures in my previous post. In what you now posted, you were saying just the opposite of what you said here ... so what do you believe?

As I stated in my previous post, my purpose for writing was not to "change" anyone's mind, but, to challenge others who might be reading to get into the scriptures and not be afraid to test things...

Speaking of fear, while we shouldn't fear man, we SHOULD "Be of sober spirit, be on the alert. Your adversary, the devil, prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour." 1 Peter 5:8

If the teachers mentioned are not encouraging the Body of Christ to live a life of separation to this world - and if they are not emphasizing that we die to ourselves and our desires - ("you must be born again" - and not just saying it, but abiding in it and teaching what it truly means) just because there seems to be "life" somewhere, doesn't mean there is - Jesus is the only way, truth and life - and since no one comes to the Father but through Him, we must be careful not to involve ourselves or expose ourselves to teachers that are advocating a different doctrine than Christ's.

"The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit; A broken and a contrite heart, O God, You will not despise." Psalms 51:17

"And this I pray, that your love may abound still more and more in real knowledge and all discernment, so that you may approve the things that are excellent, in order to be sincere and blameless until the day of Christ; having been filled with the fruit of righteousness which comes through Jesus Christ, to the glory and praise of God." Philippians 1:9-11

Grace and Peace

-Maria


_________________
Stephanie

 2003/6/9 11:06Profile
todd
Member



Joined: 2003/5/12
Posts: 573
California

 Re:

i will paste your last post on the other thread and let's continue the discussion over there.















 2003/6/9 12:17Profile





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