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TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 6650
NC, USA

 Re:

I wrote this a few years back and it applies to this discussion:
____________________


The Two Boxes
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August 21, 2010 at 11:01am

"As Jesus and his disciples approached Jerusalem, they came to the towns of Bethphage and Bethany on the Mount of Olives. Jesus sent two of them on ahead. “Go into that village over there,” he told them. “As soon as you enter it, you will see a young donkey tied there that no one has ever ridden. Untie it and bring it here. If anyone asks, ‘What are you doing?’ just say, ‘The Lord needs it and will return it soon.’” (Mark 11:1-3, NLT)

I’ve been thinking lately about the tension that many Christians experience due to the way they compartmentalize their lives into two boxes: the “faith” box and the “everything else” box. Into the Faith Box we toss church-going, bible reading, praying, worshiping, etc. Into the Everything Else Box we toss, well, everything else.

Why does this create tension? Because those who are truly sincere about their faith in Jesus Christ know in their heart of hearts that there shouldn’t be two boxes at all. Lurking in the back of our minds is the admonition of the Apostle: “Therefore, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God” (1 Cor. 10:31). But if we are truthful about the matter, we have to admit that much of what we do every day has nothing to do with the glory of God. Or, perhaps better stated, we have no conscious sense that what we are doing glorifies God at all.

Why is that?

Because we can’t see how “Everything Else” can fit into our Faith Box. Let’s face it—things like cutting the grass, taking a shower, feeding the pet, and going to the bathroom don’t seem very “spiritual.” Then, of course, we have the bigger things—like our jobs, paying the bills, hobbies, relating to our families and friends and those other things that take up the great bulk of our lives. And since we don’t have a sense of how the great bulk of our lives brings glory to God, we get frustrated and discouraged. We get the sense that we are wasting our lives; that most of what we are doing everyday is doing nothing to advance the Kingdom of God. And when we ARE playing in our Faith Box, we tend to feel guilty that we are not in this box much more often than we are. This tightrope walk between the two boxes is a joy-killer and a peace-robber.

This dilemma, which we perceive to be real, is entirely unnecessary. It is founded on a profound misunderstanding, and this idea of a separate Faith Box and Everything Else Box is foreign to the New Testament. Jesus is the perfect example of someone who did not walk this bifurcated life. “I ALWAYS do those things that please Him” (John 8:29, my emphasis). But wait—wasn’t Jesus a man? Did he not have normal bodily functions and have the same concerns that were common to men of his day? Indeed he did. But he was keenly aware of the fact that all things CAN be done for God’s glory. And he walked in this reality.

But how can WE do so?

First, we have to understand that God knows all about our bodies, and our day to day activities that are necessary but that to us seem unimportant as far as God's glory is concerned(i.e. they don’t go in the Faith Box). As Christians, we carry Christ with us, just as the humble donkey carried Jesus in the passage quoted above. We simply need to practice being CONSCIOUSLY AWARE that we are carrying Christ with us. He has need of us, just as he had need of that donkey. This, in itself, will go a long way in helping us to realize how our secular activities can bring glory to God. Christ in you, the hope of glory (Col. 1:27). Or, as The Message puts it: The mystery in a nutshell is just this: Christ is in you, so therefore you can look forward to sharing in God's glory. It's that simple. That is the substance of our Message."

However, this will take practice and some getting used to. As we know, these types of thoughts do not come naturally. We have to make an effort to think this way, and pray that God will remind us daily. Old habits die hard. We have to have the faith to believe that if we offer all of our acts to God, that He will indeed accept this offering. We should be offering “breath prayers” throughout the day- telling God that whatever you may be doing is for His glory. And, with time, we should find that we no longer have need of a separate Faith Box and Everything Else Box because we will realize that everything really is for Him, after all.


_________________
Todd

 2014/4/4 8:49Profile
MrBillPro
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3422
Texas

 Re:

Brother Neil, you and I seem to be on the same frequency in life. I can so relate to the shoes your walking in, seems the suicide part is the only shoes I pray to God you never have to walk in. My life has been a roller coaster ride since losing Daniel, like you, I went through a divorce after 38 years in 2009, she passed a year later, personally I still feel like I am married to her, and still not looking for anyone. Like you Brother, I await His Calling on my life, this waiting is so hard, but I am sold out, I will wait till he comes back, if that's his plan.
Love You Brother!


_________________
Bill

 2014/4/4 9:35Profile









 Re:

Some really good posts. Thank you, Neil for sharing your heart.

I think there is much confusion as Christians attempt to explain what activities one should engage in or not and this is not relegated just to non-Christians, but to Christians as well. It seems if we can define right and wrong activities then we can define someone's spiritual condition. We look from the outside in while Christ looks from the inside out. The true motivations and desires of men are embedded in their hearts. Of course, we think we look from the outside in, but we can only see the external. Nevertheless, that doesn't seem to stop many who persist in categorizing people's spiritual conditions.

A man comes to Jesus (obviously externally oriented) and says, "look at all the great things I have done" (paraphrase) and Jesus says, "I never knew you". He totally bypassed the external, giving no attention to it and basically told the man you have nothing inside yourself towards Me.

Jesus does teach us about fruit coming from bad trees or good trees. But is this fruit found solely in "doings", "works", (externals) which Jesus clearly ignored from this man who appeared before Him in Matt 7, or is this 'fruit', our behavioral expressions (which has its root in the heart)?

More later...

 2014/4/4 10:47









 Re:

The reality is much simpler than is claimed by some in this thread. There are those who will even turn the word of God upside down in order to make their point. It is complete foolishness and its end will be tears. I wonder how we will stand in that great and terrible day of the Lord when we finally comprehend that we have turned men and women away from a godly life in service to Christ and have instead justified their fleshy conduct and laid waste to their faith with philosophy?

What is being said here in essence is that as long as your heart is 'good' everything will be just fine! Take confidence in your heart then and in the end you will comprehend that it is the inward thing which is evidenced outwardly in words and deeds. So if you are comforted by entertainment you will have to accept that your heart desired entertainment. Then by that measure you will be judged. Otherwise we should stop with the philosophy altogether and accept that the heart is wicked and deceived above all else, who can know it?

 2014/4/4 14:17









 My brother Bill

I love you too brother, I was thinking that when I was writing that post.....I read your postings, you're a dear man, God love you, neil

 2014/4/4 14:39









 Re:

Quote:
What is being said here in essence is that as long as your heart is 'good' everything will be just fine!



I am not saying that and I don't recall specifically reading where anyone else is saying that. And for the record, I am not defending "entertainment" nor villifying it because it is just a word that people are using (it seems) to encompass everything except prayer and fasting.

I am still developing my thesis in this thread, and other brothers and sisters are bringing up good points (that is how the body works) so bear with us.

If in the end, we say that one can participate in anything they want and exhibit whatever behavior they desire, I would think you have a pretty good case against our stance. But, that is not what I am expecting from the Body and their understanding of God's word.

 2014/4/4 15:26









 whats really sad to me is

how are we a "peculiar people"?.....reading thru various threads, how would we and do we makes others "envious of so great a salvation"?

 2014/4/4 18:41









 Re:

Quote:
I am not saying that and I don't recall specifically reading where anyone else is saying that. And for the record, I am not defending "entertainment" nor villifying it because it is just a word that people are using (it seems) to encompass everything except prayer and fasting.

I am still developing my thesis in this thread, and other brothers and sisters are bringing up good points (that is how the body works) so bear with us.

If in the end, we say that one can participate in anything they want and exhibit whatever behavior they desire, I would think you have a pretty good case against our stance. But, that is not what I am expecting from the Body and their understanding of God's word.



It is very unlikely that anyone would actually say that believers can say what they want and exhibit any behaviour they desire. Yet the reality is that every believer has the power to do precisely that thing. Not only this but the Lord Himself will permit it as well. That is reality. Were it otherwise there would be no discussion and no opinion on anything at all because every believer would be constrained by the Lord and would exhibit sound speech and conduct always.

Moreover if entertainment were in reality just a word then there would be no discussion either. The problem is that entertainment, even when it is innocently prescribed, is a profound distraction to the work of the Church. Paul said that he was convinced that nothing of itself was evil. Yet he cannot have intended that to mean that immorality or hateful speech were of no consequence. The problem lays in us, not in the elements themselves. It is we ourselves who are the problem. Even Satan is not a problem if our hearts are set on things above. In saying this I am saying no more than is common sense to the one who sets their sights on heavenly things. This is not a contention, or an argument or a thesis. It is plain straight forward truth.

Finally whilst no one ever says that which is evil plainly, the evil thing is implicit in the words we use if we do not make a clear and unequivocal meaning in what we say. As no one is going to say 'do as thou wilt shall be the whole law' then that thing becomes implicit when we begin to determine ourselves what is sound and what is unsound.

I ought to say this plainly then you will perhaps understand why I see no purpose in bearing with group think. There are two types of people who lead God's children astray. They are those who have an opinion and express it in a group, which leads to endless compromise. Then there are those who insists that a thing is true and require others to follow it without recognising that others have the power to reject what is said. The former leads to the liberty of opinions and half truths. The latter leads to oppression and weak faith.

So far as I know the only reality which is proven true at all times is when we are contained by the word of God. What I am expecting from the body of Christ is endless opinion and group think. There is no evidence whatsoever that the churches have learned how to deal with these two problems. They are endemic and persistent through every age.

 2014/4/4 19:41









 Re: whats really sad to me is

Quote:
by HezWelling on 2014/4/4 18:41:41

how are we a "peculiar people"?.....reading thru various threads, how would we and do we makes others "envious of so great a salvation"?



I believe that is done by the dynamic functioning and expression of Jesus Christ in and through us.

 2014/4/4 21:18









 Re:

Quote:
by amrkelly on 2014/4/4 19:41:36

So far as I know the only reality which is proven true at all times is when we are contained by the word of God. What I am expecting from the body of Christ is endless opinion and group think. There is no evidence whatsoever that the churches have learned how to deal with these two problems. They are endemic and persistent through every age



I am sorry you feel that way. That has not been my experience. My experience is to work things through with brothers until we all come to the mind of the Lord and also, during this time of disagreement to hold each other "close" and pray for one another. Also, it is important to receive those who are weak in the faith. The godly thing to do is maintain unity in the faith while discussing an issue. This is how the Body works, or rather I should say, this is how the Head works in the Body.

When God's people are really one and strong in the Lord, they are able to listen to anything that is presented to the church. Until they are one on an issue, they should continue to pray and search the scriptures (like Bereans) and eventually God will bring the body into unity on that specific subject. Most churches don't operate this way. There is one person that makes the decision whether people have had time to come into agreement or not.

If the church is strong you will not be swayed by every wind that blows because you are rooted and grounded in Christ.

Posting on SI, and waiting and posting and waiting for another piece of the "puzzle" may be slow to some people and I suspect it is a bit unnerving to you Kelly, but this is the environment that we have and we have to be patient to listen to every brother until they have made their full point. Some brothers have a burden and don't know how to share it and it takes them time to develop what they are trying to say.

In our zeal for the Lord we all go through periods of imbalance, it is inevitable. But the important thing is as we go on we need to arrive at the balance. For instance, Church life is important, but it's not everything, family life is important but family life is not all there is. Some people make family life everything and because of that they have no church life or vice-versa. Work is important but you cannot work all the time and not relax. Entertainment is not bad, but it depends on what a person means by entertainment. Chess games may be bad for some people but not others. If someone plays chess and it makes them very angry, it is not really the chess pieces but something in his heart, right?

Please don't take this to the nth degree and put words in my mouth. I am not saying that as long as someone does not lust in their heart, they can view pornography and it will never affect them. I do not believe that.

What I am trying to say is that brothers and sisters are working through issues in this thread as a body so that they can arrive at the truth and a balance and there is nothing wrong with discussing issues like this. Some do not have the patience for this and that is ok, because we have all been given different gifts and callings. Evangelists have no patience sometimes for shepherding, and I understand that. We want to be contained by the Word of God (as you say), but it does not happen automatically and discussing issues while maintaining peace and unity can result in edification for many brothers. So, I encourage you not to expect "endless opinion and group think", because the Head is able to communicate to and through His Body and I am always optimistic that if brothers maintain unity and prayer, they will eventually come into agreement with the Head on a subject. Coming into agreement does not always happen right away and we should not bulldoze over brothers and sisters who still have doubts or questions.

 2014/4/4 22:18





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