SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Image Map
Discussion Forum : General Topics : Is Sermon Index Forbidding the Examination of Teachings? Please clarify.

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 Next Page )
PosterThread









 Is Sermon Index Forbidding the Examination of Teachings? Please clarify.

Hi Greg,

In the Bill Gothard thread (where we were examining his teachings), you shut it down and said no more discussion about his teachings.

In a post that I wrote and you deleted, I asked you if this meant that SI was forbidding the examination of all Christian teachings?

Because you are shutting down discussion on Bill Gothard's teachings, I think it is important that you tell us what this means regarding other teachings? Is the message that you are sending that all teachings will get the same protection that Bill's teachings now enjoy. Would you please clarify your stance regarding the examination of Christian teaching. Is SI taking the stance that examination of teachings are now equal to slander?

 2014/3/7 10:58
Sidewalk
Member



Joined: 2011/11/11
Posts: 705
San Diego

 Re: Is Sermon Index Forbidding the Examination of Teachings? Please clarify.

It seems to me that since Bill Gothard's ministry and the things he taught have affected millions of people, there should be some room for active discussion.

Many of the ministries and preachers represented and featured on SI affect people as any inspiring sermon should. But somehow, Gothard's ministry pulled on strings inside many of us never knew we had, and some of the effects were devastating.

Cults come and go, strange doctrines do some damage and hopefully run into a wall of truth that blunts their effect. But Gothard used good scripture to make his points and wise believers often gained good insight for their lives- I feel I am among those. Others heard the same things and went shipwreck.

All in all, it seems this is a valid area for discussion. Like any group therapy concept, conversations between the blessed and the hurting have value when humble hearts prevail.


I must admit to being glad I don't have to make moderator decisions!


_________________
Tom Cameron

 2014/3/7 11:51Profile
Yeshuasboy
Member



Joined: 2006/6/10
Posts: 668
Northern Rockies, BC, Canada

 Re:

I'm a bit curious to know what brother K.Daniel would say concerning this, being I believe it was Bill who first brought brother Keith to America.

Let us do unto others as we would appreciate them doing unto us. If I was in Bill's shoes I would appreciate the saints praying for me.

Without the grace of God we would all fall into terrible sins, and we would all be cast into outer darkness then the lake of fire.


_________________
Richie

 2014/3/7 12:22Profile
PaulWest
Member



Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas

 Re:

Quote:
All in all, it seems this is a valid area for discussion. Like any group therapy concept, conversations between the blessed and the hurting have value when humble hearts prevail.


There is a thin, almost imperceptible line between "discussion" and "slander", the former often being a cunning quise for indulging in the latter. My question would be, why bring it up at all here? SermonIndex is essentially a classic revival sermon archive and not a Christian gossip lounge where links from unsubstantiated sources are cut and pasted to fuel healthy discussions.

What if Gothard is innocent of the charges? How do you know he is not? What business is it of ours to "expose" this ordeal at all? By taking the time and effort to expose other ministries and engage in gossip-hounding we actually expose our own lack and deficiencies in our personal walks with Christ. We are not wise by acting on allegations being repeated by others. And, most importantly, we certainly are not emulating the One whom we claim to follow, who did not even speak the name of "Judas" publically as His betrayer.

Quote:
I must admit to being glad I don't have to make moderator decisions!


It's not easy at times. But I must stand with Greg on this issue and ask others to refrain from bringing these types of "exposure" topics to the forum. Even if the claims are true, it is not our place to expose men. God will do it Himself, in His own way. We who stand ought to instead pray with fear and trembling for those who have fallen and take care to judge ourselves, knowing we too are just as viable to fall if not for God's grace. But to blow a trumpet in the marketplace (establish an exposure thread in the forum) and alert everyone to a brother's fall - this is just wrong and evidences spiritual immaturity.


_________________
Paul Frederick West

 2014/3/7 12:31Profile
makrothumia
Member



Joined: 2005/5/19
Posts: 611
Texas

 Thank you Paul

I wonder how many still read the book of Proverbs?

Have you considered the fall of the author? He was involved in forbidden idolatrous marriages, amassed great quantities of wealth for himself, built elaborate palaces for his many wives and drove the people under him by hard labor to accomplish all this.

How many still bother to read the teachings of such a man who married 700 wives and 300 concubines?
Could the teachings of such a man be any better than the man himself?

In addition to this, just look at how Solomon's teachings on the use of the rod has caused many children to be beaten by parents applying the rod of correction. Was it not Solomon who taught that the "blueness of a wound" purges away evil?

If we are consistent with our judgments, all of Solomon's teachings should be fair game for our criticism also.


_________________
Alan and Dina Martin

 2014/3/7 12:59Profile









 Re: Thank you Paul

I think that is fine if you don't want his teachings to be examined. I and other brothers, I am sure will hold you accountable to give others the same protections over their teachings as you are giving Bill.

You keep rephrasing the examination of Bill Gothard's teachings as gossip and slander, (which could be construed as an accusation in itself) but no one is talking about that pending case with his board or what he is accused of doing. We are talking about examining his teachings just as you have allowed many teachings to be examined on SI.

He has enjoyed protection against scrutiny of his teachings for years and this has not only been an unloving disservice to the Body of Christ but to Bill, himself.

So, I expect no more scrutiny of charismatic teachers such as Joel Osteen, (who I don't ascribe to), or Mark Driscoll, or word of faith, or Calvinists, Arminians, etc. Look at your own history of all the teachings that have been scrutinized and think about the message you are sending. I will remind you of your decision and hold you accountable. Be careful that your news articles don't cross that fine line and give the impression of gossip or slander. If you don't like being held accountable you will have to ban me. If you have nothing to fear you will welcome the accountability.

 2014/3/7 14:49
sermonindex
Moderator



Joined: 2002/12/11
Posts: 37095
"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11

Online!
 Re:

Quote:
He has enjoyed protection against scrutiny of his teachings for years and this has not only been an unloving disservice to the Body of Christ but to Bill, himself.

So, I expect no more scrutiny of charismatic teachers such as Joel Osteen, (who I don't ascribe to), or Mark Driscoll, or word of faith, or Calvinists, Arminians, etc. Look at your own history of all the teachings that have been scrutinized and think about the message you are sending. I will remind you of your decision and hold you accountable. Be careful that your news articles don't cross that fine line and give the impression of gossip or slander. If you don't like being held accountable you will have to ban me.



Brother,

In general we have always discouraged the element of trying to look at all that is wrong and trying to focus on what is good. So for example instead of criticizing all the preachers that "do not" preach repentance we have encouraged and promoted preachers that "do" preach repentance. We do have reservations for many of the "so-called" ministries on the internet that simply expose everything they think is wrong. This ends up being much of Christianity. There is very little they leave un-touched by if this same critical look would be put upon themselves they would greatly fall short and one could write an expose on the author itself. In short we do not want to promote this type of thinking or spirit. Of course there is much wrong out in Christendom and we do not support the idea of closing our eyes to all that is wrong.

There is much slander against all the featured speakers on SermonIndex if you search the internet so should we allow these type of discussions on them? No. There is a reasonable sense of where discussions on doctrines of godly fruitful preachers becomes to the place of undermining the very speaker himself and his walk with God. We are never called to judge "all others" but in our own local context or people we listen to we are to "judge" and discern ourselves. This does not mean this "judging" should be done publicly rather it would be more wise to only address some issues in the local church context.

Of course it can be fruitful for "some" who have already wept, loved and done something for the love of body of Christ to speak against greater doctrinal problems by other speakers who are in the public eyes. Each man will stand or fall before God in that day with their true heart intentions to speak against and demean a speaker for the good of the rest of Christendom or if it was an unhealthy motive in their heart though the speaker or doctrine could be wrong.

"We are talking about examining his teachings just as you have allowed many teachings to be examined on SI. " - I believe in context with the current questions and problems with that ministry that it is unhealthy breeding groups for believers to not only examine teachings but to start to undermine years of fruitful discipleship in young peoples lives. If there was not a "scandal" good or bad outcome we would not be discussed or "desiring" to expose all that we think is wrong of this man's teachings.

Again we want to encourage a different purpose and spirit on SermonIndex. I would encourage saints to review this very short articles:

Principle 25 – Not Judging Others (pdf)
http://img.gospelfellowships.net/pdf/principle25.pdf

Principle 26 – Having a Right Doctrine but Wrong Spirit (pdf)
http://img.gospelfellowships.net/pdf/principle26.pdf

Principle 27 – The Priority of Love (pdf)
http://img.gospelfellowships.net/pdf/principle27.pdf

Principle 28 – Examine Yourself and Correction in Love (pdf)
http://img.gospelfellowships.net/pdf/principle28.pdf

Principle 29 – Being Rich in Mercy (pdf)
http://img.gospelfellowships.net/pdf/principle29.pdf


_________________
SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2014/3/7 15:05Profile









 Re:

Greg, when did examining teachings become slander? Don't you have to take that on a case by case basis?

I understand that you don't want your site to engage in examination of teachings. Let's just leave it at that. But, please update your rules and regulations to state clearly that SI is not a site that allows examination of teachings.

 2014/3/7 15:23
rainydaygirl
Member



Joined: 2008/10/27
Posts: 742


 Re:

edited:

i just found the other thread and realized i should have posted my comment there. so i am going to move it now. sorry about that (smile)

rdg

 2014/3/7 15:35Profile
sermonindex
Moderator



Joined: 2002/12/11
Posts: 37095
"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11

Online!
 Re:

Quote:
Greg, when did examining teachings become slander? Don't you have to take that on a case by case basis?

I understand that you don't want your site to engage in examination of teachings. Let's just leave it at that. But, please update your rules and regulations to state clearly that SI is not a site that allows examination of teachings.



Dear brother,

In light of all that I just wrote in the last post I hope you can understand why we at times must be wise in our discussions of other christian leaders publicly and yes be very careful of what we accuse and post to articles that under the guise of "freedom of speech" criticize and undermine a brothers ministry. Many do this and start a blog to expose a teacher, teaching, or just a Christian leader who they dislike and want to bring their character under question.

I did say in "light" of the news item about Bill Gothard that yes we must show wisdom if this is the time to discuss and bring into question some teachings of this ministry and brother. My decision is that it is not a wise time and that it would be wise to leave these considerations to each brother or sisters private reading and discerning. We must be in more of the place of prayer for this ministry, it is not perfect and I have things I disagree with it as well as "many" other ministries but in no way do I have a desire to expose or bring into question all these ministries because of a few things I disagree with.

Towards the community rules: http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=44556&forum=13

1. JESUS CHRIST THE HEAD
2. BEING TEACHABLE
3. HAVING A PERSONAL AGENDA
4. SERVANTHOOD
5. SPEAKING WITH GENTLENESS
6. SELF-PROMOTION
7. SLANDERING OTHERS
8. DIVISIONS AND QUARRELLING
9. RESPECTING AUTHORITY
10. POSTING AND EDITING
11. PRAYING BEFORE YOU POST
12. CONFESSION

I believe it would do well for us all to review them from time to time. I always see the Lord working on my heart and life in some of these areas as I post and share on SermonIndex as a moderator and realize my many mistakes in my intentions, heart-attitudes and character as I post. May our discussions be pleasing to the Lord and may we realize that many read these posts all over the world that we would have a testimony for the Lord in the way we love and serve and treat each other as Christ even Himself.


_________________
SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2014/3/7 15:41Profile





©2002-2019 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Privacy Policy