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ZekeO
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Joined: 2004/7/4
Posts: 1014
Pietermaritzburg, South Africa

 Re:

Very good post twayne,

Quote:
But that very train of thought ignores spiritual regeneration and the change of lifestyle that is a result of that regeneration



How true is that, its the belief that a believer is a still in first Adam and not in second Adam. That Jesus is still on the cross and not seated in heaven.

Once again, good post!!


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Zeke Oosthuis

 2014/1/4 0:40Profile
Sree
Member



Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1711


 Re: Twayneb

I find so many mistakes and unbiblical assumptions in your post. I did not care to comment on them before but now I find the need because I see people who lack discernment here being deceived by your post.

Quote:

He sent Jesus to pay the penalty demanded by the law and reconcile us. He put the law to death on the cross and by His sacrifice we now have peace with God.



Jesus paid the penalty for my sins. He did not come to abolish the law. Jesus himself said that not even a single stoke of law will be destroyed.

Matt 5-17:-Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.

As Jesus said, the law will be fulfilled in us who believe him. The requirements of the law are fulfilled in me by not just paying the penalty, but also to empower me to keep a standard that is why higher than law, this is the spirit filled standard. God never put law to death. Paul says in Romans 7:4 that -
Therefore, my brethren, you also were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ, so that you might be joined to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God.

Romans 7 follows after Romans 6 in which Paul has already described a born again man. So the death in Romans 7 is a death of the man who after being born again united to law instead of spirit. Even in this case God did not kill law but he made the man die to separate him from law and unite him with Spirit.

Quote:

But that very train of thought ignores spiritual regeneration and the change of lifestyle that is a result of that regeneration. It is as if salvation is simply a change of lifestyle, and that a fear of penalty is the only thing that would serve to keep a person on the straight and narrow. But that is the very bondage that Christ set us free from.



No one ignores regenerated life. When a person repents and accepts Jesus as his savior, he is born again. This means the old man who lived freely sinning is now dead and a new man has been born who wants to please God. But this new man is not strong enough to please God and keep from sinning. He has to seek the infilling of spirit each and everyday to renew his strength. Only then he will be able to live the life that he now wants to live. We are not preaching regenerated life as a change in life style, it is a change in desire and passion. But by this change in desire and passion it self is not good enough to live a Godly life. Thank fully there is much more to salvation than regeneration.

Quote:

You see, the new covenant is not about a new and better way to avoid individual acts of sin, and a new way to atone for those sins each time they are committed. It is not the law with improvements. It is about regeneration of the spirit. It is about the enmity between us and God being dealt with in the person of Jesus Christ. It is not that God simply forgave sins that are past through Christ and that future failures must be individually confessed, repented of, and atonement procured. Sin itself has been dealt with. My spirit has been regenerated. I have been perfected forever.



There is a spirit filled life that is explained in Romans Chapter 8, in which a Christian has power to say no to sin. Even here to such a Christian Paul writes that,
Romans 8-12:-So then, brethren, we are under obligation, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh— for if you are living according to the flesh, you will DIE; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

So there is a spiritual death possible if a Christian who is born again and spirit filled starts to live by Flesh. If this will not happen then why is Paul warning us? It can happen but if the believer takes the power of Holy Spirit to overcome sin then he will have power to live dead to flesh every day. He will take up the cross and deny his flesh everyday. This is the victorious life we have in Jesus.

Regarding the need for daily repentance in a Christians life, if you read Revelation then you will know how many times Jesus asks Churches to repent. If no need to repent after we are born again then why is Jesus warning the Church to repent?

I do not believe that people come here to learn. No one will change their doctrines in this forum no matter how unscriptural it is. At least it will be good if they stop spreading these lies.


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Sreeram

 2014/1/4 10:32Profile









 Re:

According to Romans 7 the law did not die and the only way for us to get free from the law which cannot die, is for us to die. We died in Christ and therefore have been set free from the law.

Rom 7:1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?

Key phrase: "As long as he liveth".

Rom 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

Key phrase: "Ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ". We are now free to be married to another (Christ).

Cross reference scripture: Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

Key phrase: "baptized into his death". This is how you were freed from the law to serve Christ in the newness of the Spirit.

Rom 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

Key phrase: "we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held"

and a new thought: "we should serve in newness of spirit and not in the oldness of the letter"

Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

The law is still alive today, but we have died in Christ and through His death, we have been set free from the law to serve a higher law. The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus. We are a new creation, new creatures in Christ. Something that never existed on planet earth prior to Christ....the New Man.

 2014/1/4 10:50
Sree
Member



Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1711


 Re:

Quote:

Peter saith unto him, Thou shalt never wash my feet. Jesus answered him, If I wash thee not, thou hast no part with me. Simon Peter saith unto him, Lord, not my feet only, but also my hands and my head. Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean,

Do you see what he's saying?



A believer who has repented, confessed openly Jesus as his savior and taken water baptism can be compared here to a person who has taken bath. He is now clean, he does not need to take the baptism again for any reason. But Jesus also said 'not all of you are clean'. Though Judas was once selected by Jesus himself as a disciple, he was now not clean because he let evil come into his heart. So Jesus did not consider him as clean.

But Jesus asks the disciples to wash their feet. Our feet gets dirty whenever we take a walk. Jesus here is referring to our Christian walk in which either consciously or unconsciously we can sin by entertaining our flesh. Hence it is necessary for us to confess our sins daily as part of our prayer to God and ask for forgiveness, even if we have no conscious sins in our heart.
Matt 6-12:-12 ‘And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors.'

This should be part of our payer as commanded by Jesus, this will be compared to feet washing. If we keep washing our feet regularly, we will also be clean like those 11 apostles. Else we can become unclean as well like Judas.


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Sreeram

 2014/1/4 10:52Profile
Sree
Member



Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1711


 Re:

Quote:

The law is still alive today, but we have died in Christ and through His death, we have been set free from the law to serve a higher law. The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus. We are a new creation, new creatures in Christ. Something that never existed on planet earth prior to Christ....the New Man.



Yes I agree. I love the way you mention 'higher law'. It is very true that life by Spirit is a standard way higher than law. It is like a man who completes his PHD has way higher knowledge than a 12th grader.

The problem is many consider Chiristian life by grace as living by 'NO LAW' or lawless. But Jesus said unless our Righteousness surpasses that of Pharisees and Scribes who are experts of law we will never enter the kingdom of God (Matt 5-20). Which means a disciple standard should be way higher than a legalist can achieve.


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Sreeram

 2014/1/4 10:59Profile









 Re:

Amen, Sree. Living by grace is not living without any law. It is living by the higher "law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus."

Which produces fruit unto God and AGAINST SUCH THERE IS NO (LETTER of the) LAW that can produce this fruit. It is the Spirit of Life in Christ which produces true fruit unto God.

Here are two reference scriptures for everyone.

Rom 8:2 For the LAW OF THE SPIRIT OF LIFE IN CHRIST JESUS hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: AGAINST SUCH THERE IS NO LAW.

 2014/1/4 11:22
proudpapa
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Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 Re:

The Church that I started out in taught that inorder to be saved, one must confess his sins, repent from his sins and than trusts in the work of Christ as redemption for his sin, and if he went back into sin he lost his salvation.

This sounds good, but I tried to enter in through this gate countless times and it did not work for me, nor did it seem to work for many others that I observed.

The repentance of sin was understood as my part of the salvation process, It was and often preached that God does not look on sin nor those whom have sin, so it was understood that inorder to approuch God we must first repent of our sin's and than bring that repentant state to God in which we are now clean enough that God will except us.

As a sincere bible believing 14-26 year old it sounded correct, but I can testify personally that after more than a decade of countless very sincere tearful responses to the alter call for salvation and rededications. It did not work.

We would often set around as the youth and question how much sin it took to loose ones salvation.
It was often asked : 'What if a Christian said a cuss word, and before he had time to confess and repent, if he died, would he go to heaven or hell? what If he drank one beer and said one cuss word and than died before he confessed and repented of his sin?' Such questions where never adequately answered, at the same time ironically we also where taught we had a sinful nature and that Romans 7 was the normal Christian life.
It was a sea of confusion. and it did not work. It did not bring true peace nor did it have the power to give me the strength to stop me from sinning....

hopefully to be continued..







 2014/1/4 12:05Profile
proudpapa
Member



Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 

previously I wrote : RE: /// The repentance of sin was understood as my part of the salvation process,///

This is where I now believe the error crept in.

In essence every time I responded to the alter call ,which was countless times in the course of more than a decade, I was ignorantly bringing my cleaned up self to be excepted.
but the Bible tells us that Jesus came into the world to save sinners.

The alter call was an emotional experience, I was sincere every time I responded, I always was of the mind set that : "This time I was going to get victory over my sin and stop sinning"
The will was present with me; but how to perform that which was good I did not know.

Through will power and self effort I did overcome certain sins but there where some that even though I confessed and repented the best I knew how, my body had became so adjusted to them that by abstaing from them for more than just a few days I would become very sick, and within 2 weeks I was back to them, I hated those things which I did, and I did those things which I hated.

hopefully to be continued..





 2014/1/4 18:58Profile
jujashan4
Member



Joined: 2009/1/11
Posts: 77


 Re:

Sounds like legalism so far Proudpapa, I've certainly been there and still struggle with it but am certainly coming into trusting more in Jesus death and resurrection and trying to grasp and walk in that I'm dead and my life is now hidden with Christ in God.
It really is good news!
I look forward to hearing more from you.


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Andrew Wales

 2014/1/5 6:48Profile
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3393
East TN (for now)

 Re: Two converted Jewish scholars exposing polluted teachings about grace ...


This is going to be rough brothers but I’m going to call you out on this, MEN, who promote this corrupt teaching... because if I were a betting person, I’d say it was a “male” who came up with this corrupt teaching trying to appease their guilt from Matt 5.27-29:

Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

Did Jesus say, “no worries brother, I understand completely your troubles and trials of this human lust thing and I’m going to alleviate your conscience so you never have to say your sorry again...” No, he did not.


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Lisa

 2014/1/5 8:32Profile





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