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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : once justified, always justified?

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RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
Ron's: The progress of conformity to Christ, which I prefer to call glorification, is indeed a process but there is no sense of sanctification as a process in the Old Testament concept of the word; you either are or you aren't. I think we need to be sure we don't lose this decisive sense in our NT theology.



I think the confusion comes from teachings on Entire Sanctification and others that seem to equate sanctification with [i]sinlessness[/i]. But what I understand of your view Ron is that we are instantly set apart to God as His possession when we are born again.

Is it then safe to say that we are changed into His image from Glory to Glory As we continually remain filled with the Spirit? The image of Christ in us has to be 'refreshed' over and over while at the same time we are becoming more and more like Him (the picture is becoming clearer (as it were))? So there is a crisis event along with an ongoing 'refreshing' and changing of the image to be more like Christ? Is that right?




_________________
Robert Wurtz II

 2007/5/14 18:41Profile









 Re:

Ron, as i have said before,

isn't faith also work? because if believing is having faith, then believing is a work we do
(remember the old thread)

 2007/5/14 18:51









 Re:

If you are born again it is no longer to be your faith God is pleased with but the Faith of the Son of God within you and works from you in that Faith, He seeks matured. i.e., the very Life oif Christ. see Gal 2.20 KJV only for that word. Compare with the others and you will see why....if you can make distinctions.

 2007/5/14 19:05
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God... Man has no natural ability in and of himself to express a saving faith in Christ. The word of God that is preached, however, enables man to take God at His word and believe the gospel. Apart from the enabling power that comes from the word of God, man cannot believe. The word of God that is preached is the work that produces the ability to have faith.

*edit*
And with this knowledge, one doesn't have to thump KJV only type positions in regard to Galatians. The ability to have faith is supernaturally imparted through the preaching of the word of God.


_________________
Jimmy H

 2007/5/14 19:31Profile









 Re:

Jimmy and Ormly, thanks for the explanation...but how many, on a given sunday, express faith that succintly? that's what's grieving.... believe and be saved. yeah, i just cringe.... faith is a work, but the faith that a true believer has comes from the faith of Christ

by the way, i guess nobody has really listened to the sermons i posted from brother Roberts, but as he states, we Would do well to remember of Yehuda the Iscariot every single day of our life
this idea that once saved always saved, or once justified always justified- is clearly debunkted by the life of Yehuda

 2007/5/14 19:38
PassingThru
Member



Joined: 2005/5/7
Posts: 175


 Re:

Quote:
...Apart from the enabling power that comes from the word of God, man cannot believe...



This is true, but man still needs to respond to it. Men go to hell because they [b]choose[/b] to reject the gospel despite being granted the power to believe.

[color=000099]
Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; [b]so that they are without excuse[/b]:
Rom 1:21 Because that, [b]when they [u]knew[/u] God, they glorified him not as God[/b], neither were thankful;2168 but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
...
Rom 2:4 Or [b]despisest[/b] thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; [b]not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance[/b]?
...
Rom 2:6 Who [b]will[/b] render to [b]every[/b] man [b]according to his deeds[/b]:
...
Rom 2:8 But unto them that are contentious, [b]and do not obey the truth[/b], but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
...
Rom 2:10 But glory, honor, and peace, to every man that [b]worketh[/b] good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
Rom 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
[/color]

Salvation by a purely intellectual belief, without the need for a response or any input from man's side, would be involuntary. The punishment of non believers would be unjust - they didn't get a chance to do otherwise.

PassingThru

 2007/5/14 22:00Profile
JesusIsMyLrd
Member



Joined: 2005/10/28
Posts: 119
Iowa, USA

 Re:

I'd encourage those of you who do believe that we are either pre-destinated (In the Calvinistic term) or once-saved-allways-saved to take a look at what the early church taught. They have some good insites into the heart of God and the scriptures (i'm not saying their word is on the same level as the Bible though, so don't get me wrong :-) ) on these issues.

i personally have been really blessed by their commentaries (spelling???) and am deeply challenged when i read about their lives of divition to Jesus.

here's a good rescource website for it...
www.scrollpublishing.com

or check out some sermons about these subjects on:

www.charityministries.org

i'd highly recommend both these places. The only downfall to the first is that it costs money... :-o

God Bless you all as you continue to keep your hearts open to God's will and plan...

-nathan


_________________
Nathan

 2007/5/14 22:09Profile
ex-atheist
Member



Joined: 2007/5/14
Posts: 2
Bozeman, MT

 Re: once justified, always justified?

"Hence my question; once justified, always justified?"

The answer is obvious--you can't lose your salvation, but you can walk away from it.

Once you are a saint you will always be God's child, nothing can stop you from going to heaven--God promiced.

However, just because you are a saint--doesn't mean that you don't have a choice anymore. No choice means no freedom, no choice means no love. You are a human--capable of choice, freedom, love. And until you die you may still walk away from God and ressurect the body of death again.

Every true Christian will agree with me when I say that absolutely nothing can seperate a saint from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. (Romans 8:35-39) And Satan Knows this.

However, Satan's plan is to use suffering, riches, part-truths to try to persuade you to change your mind away from God. To beguile you away from the will of God. Satan did this with Eve, and he did it with Jesus.

And if you yield to sin, like David with Bathsheba (II Samuel 11:1-12:14), then you are in danger of judgement--you can't expect to go to heaven and you can't expect for God to love you--and you must repent and turn to God to save you from your sin and restore you. But if you give up your birthright as a saint, like Esau (Genesis 25:29-34), then you are doing the opposite of being born again of God, then for sure you will die and go to hell unless you repent and turn to God to save you from your sins.

Now the world would persuade you that sin isn't that bad and you don't have to get all "religious" to be good.
But the truth is that sin is worse than you think--peoples' lives depend on your every action.
And if you are a saint and you study to be excellent at winning souls to Christ and you live your life in a way that is most useful to God and man, who cares that they call you religious? You shall have the better resurection.
And if you indeed live your life so that you can say with Paul, "I am pure from the blood of all men. For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God" (Acts 20:26-27) If you can honestly say that at Judgement Day in front of God and the whole world, what does it matter that you were called "religious"? What does it matter that anything bad like that happens to you?

Remember, if you will live godly in Christ Jesus, you WILL suffer persecution, and you will receive the reward.

But if you do not live godly in Christ Jesus, then you should NEVER expect to go to heaven when you die. You must repent and turn to God, and cry to Jesus to have mercy on you and save you from your sins. And he will set you free and you shall be free indeed.


_________________
Vitali Moiseenko

 2007/5/14 22:29Profile
JesusIsMyLrd
Member



Joined: 2005/10/28
Posts: 119
Iowa, USA

 Re:

Amen ex-atheist. Well said that we cannot "loose" our salvation, but that we can walk away from it.

i'd also like to point to a scripture that is often neglected in the discussion of once saved always saved:

Rev 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

If He won't blot it out if they would overcome, then that means that He was going to if they did not. i think that this is as clear a scripture as any, from the mouth of our Lord Himself, clearly stating that if one does not overcome, his name will be blotted out of the Book of Life. If it can be blotted out, that means it was in there at one point. This verse also touches on predestination... think about it for a while.

Let us walk worthy of our calling, brethren.

In Christ,
-nathan


_________________
Nathan

 2007/5/14 22:43Profile
PassingThru
Member



Joined: 2005/5/7
Posts: 175


 Re:

Quote:

However, Satan's plan is to use suffering, riches, part-truths to try to persuade you to change your mind away from God. To beguile you away from the will of God. Satan did this with Eve, and he did it with Jesus.



Another good example is the account of Balaam. God had a good destiny in store for Israel :-

[color=000099]
Jos 24:10 But I would not hearken unto Balaam; therefore he blessed, you still: so I delivered you out of his hand.
[/color]

Despite being destined for God's protection, they accepted sin and were cursed.

PassingThru

 2007/5/14 22:53Profile





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