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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : once justified, always justified?

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 Re:

Quote:

rookie wrote:

His blood justifies and reconcils us to God, yet we are saved from the wrath of God by His life.

Christ
Jeff



Rom.5.1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ...."

Consequently, we are to learn His Life, but for son-ship.

 2007/5/17 7:15
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
His statment then to Hannah Ball that 40% 'lose' justification and sanctification within a year makes me wish I could ask him that straightforward question 'do we lose regeneration and then regain it and then lose it and then... or do we only lose 'justification'?



It seems to me he may have been making a distinction between the two. Could he have meant that that some lost the second blessing they professed (sanctification) on the one hand and that others who professed Christ turned back and lost their justification? Two seperate people at two seperate places in their experience?


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Robert Wurtz II

 2007/5/17 8:32Profile
RobertW
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Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
makes me wish I could ask him that straightforward question 'do we lose regeneration and then regain it and then lose it and then... or do we only lose 'justification'?



I think I might add, "do we lose just our sanctification and retain our justification?"


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Robert Wurtz II

 2007/5/17 8:33Profile
RobertW
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Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
If, as he says, justification and regeneration are inseparable in experience what happens to the man who loses his 'justification'? Would that not mean that he lost his regeneration? And how many regenerations would a person be allowed?



I would be more apt to think the person was not really regenerated in the first place if they turn back. Not in all cases, but I just don't see the experience as being that weak. I think of a radical change when I think of regeneration. Sometimes it's hard to get a fire started- but once it's lit... watch out! :-)

I think your question takes us to the realm of Hebrews warnings. For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened...

So in my thinking if a person was truly regenerated they would have to apostacize in such a way that the Holy Spirit actually departed to loose their regeneration and justification. They would have to turn away from God in a way that at some point cut them off from God. I guess I'm going to cut against the grain for a moment with this statement- but I have generally viewed the prodigal son as a 'son' that left the fathers house. I have viewed the passage as dealing primarily with backsliding. :-o To borrow J. Vernon McGee's analogy: the hogs return to the hogpen and the sons always return to the Father's house.


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Robert Wurtz II

 2007/5/17 8:43Profile
KingJimmy
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Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Quote:

His statment then to Hannah Ball that 40% 'lose' justification and sanctification within a year makes me wish I could ask him that straightforward question 'do we lose regeneration and then regain it and then lose it and then... or do we only lose 'justification'?



I think Wesley would see it not so much as losing regeneration as putting back on the old man.


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Jimmy H

 2007/5/17 9:19Profile
JaySaved
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Joined: 2005/7/11
Posts: 1131
Kentucky

 Re:

Quote:
I think Wesley would see it not so much as losing regeneration as putting back on the old man.



Then what is regeneration?

 2007/5/17 9:28Profile
KingJimmy
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Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Quote:

Then what is regeneration?



Wesley looked at regeneration as a putting on the new man :)


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Jimmy H

 2007/5/17 10:05Profile
ZekeO
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Joined: 2004/7/4
Posts: 1014
Pietermaritzburg, South Africa

 Re:

Quote:

KingJimmy wrote:
Quote:

Then what is regeneration?



Wesley looked at regeneration as a putting on the new man :)

To add to that, before regeneration there was only one man, the dead one. :-)


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Zeke Oosthuis

 2007/5/17 10:07Profile
philologos
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Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
I think Wesley would see it not so much as losing regeneration as putting back on the old man.


Do you have any documentation for this thought? There are clearly some things that have been pulled down which could be rebuilt,“For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.” (Galatians 2:18 KJVS) ...theoretically, but 'the old man'??


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Ron Bailey

 2007/5/17 10:13Profile
philologos
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Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
To add to that, before regeneration there was only one man, the dead one.


All too brief a visit, Zeke, good to see you here.


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Ron Bailey

 2007/5/17 10:17Profile





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