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Joined: 2008/5/23
Posts: 600
Monroe, LA - USA


Dear Mary Jane,

I don’t know how you came to a saving knowledge of the Lord having been reared in RCC, but I have found that often the approach makes all of the difference in the world as to whether or not we win or lose in persuading such people to walk in the light. Jesus said that he would make us fishers of men. My dad once said: “you will never catch any fish throwing rocks at the alligators”. This is SO true when it comes to leading people away from deception and into the Gospel net. If we approach them with: “The Catholic Church is wrong, and I will prove it to you in the Bible”, we automatically close the door on persuading them because they are on the defensive trying to look for a way to prove us wrong. If we approach them with: “God’s Word is what we all need to study and know for our very own selves what is truth” and we encourage them to study their Catholic Bible with an open mind and heart to know the truth, and if we keep praying for God to enlighten them, they will eventually see FOR THEMSELVES the errors of the RCC.

God has helped me this past year to help lead a person who was once deeply Catholic to the realization that the church that he was reared in is deceiving people. In all of my conversations with this friend I never said one bad word about the Catholic religion. If I had any critical words to say, it was against ALL religious people. I often pointed out to him that there are MANY people in ALL the churches who religiously fulfill the expectations of their churches, but they are lost. The important thing is having a real relationship with Christ which comes through faith in the finished work of Christ on the cross. The only thing I have done with this friend is to study the Bible with him. He developed a hunger to study the Bible. As he would study, he would also look at the Catholic Bible and compare. The more you can inspire a Catholic to study THE CATHOLIC BIBLE, the more hope that there is that he will see the light! My friend (Jesus is his name – he is from Mexico) told me that when he goes back home to Mexico he is going to show the priest what is in his Catholic Bible and ask him WHY he never talks about those things to his congregation.

Have you ever tried to study the Catholic Bible with your mom? If you study in the Old Testament she will see an angry Jehovah God repeatedly pouring his fiery judgment out on people for worshiping images. You will not have to say anything. She will see it for herself. If you study the New Testament, she may eventually come to this verse in her Catholic Bible:
5For there is one God.
There is also one mediator between God and the human race,
Christ Jesus, himself human,
6who gave himself as ransom for all. This was the testimony at the proper time.

If you buy her a Catholic Bible as a Christmas present (check the verses really well because some RCC approved translations are better than others) and then ask her if you can simply study the Bible with her on a regular (maybe weekly) basis … if she can ever get an interest in studying or even just reading it … there will be hope that the light will shine on her darkness.

After all, how did Martin Luther get persuaded of the errors of the RCC? Simply by reading the Catholic approved translation that he happened to be privileged with education to understand.

Michael Strickland

 2013/10/30 19:35Profile

Joined: 2006/7/31
Posts: 3057


Greetings Lordoitagain

I just wanted to say that I have read your post and will pray over what you said before I respond. I did not want you to think I was ignoring you.

God bless

 2013/10/30 21:09Profile

Joined: 2008/5/23
Posts: 600
Monroe, LA - USA


I understand. Please take your time to seek the Lord about it. I am praying for you that the Lord will lead you. Often it is much more difficult with family members!

I heard a very inspiring testimony on "Unshackled" of a young man who got saved and transformed. His whole family was lost. After many years, his brother was delivered from drugs and gloriously saved. All those years however, his dad's only response was that he didn't need that ... he was a good person (over and over and over again)...

Finally when his dad was in a nursing home getting close to the end, one day in desperation, he went to see him. He walked in and said: "Dad, I have a question that I want you to think about, and I am going to leave for a while, and come back and I want you to tell me what you think about it, but really think deeply on it: Is salvation a gift, or a reward?"

He went to a nearby wooded area and spent a long time crying out to God for the salvation of his dad. When he came back, his dad was beaming with joy. He was born again. He told his son that the more he thought and thought about it the more he realized that there was no way that he could win or earn his salvation as a reward. He had to receive it as a gift, and he did.

Just a few weeks later, his dad died as a joyful Christian.

There is still hope! ... even when they appear so convinced of their erroneous opinions. Sometimes just another fishing strategy led by the Holy Ghost ... or sometimes after one has sown another waters ... and God gives the increase.

I pray that either you or somebody else led of the Lord will be able to incite your mom's interest in a study of what is in that Book on which her religion is supposed to be based. If she ever makes a thorough examination (even of the RCC approved translation), she will be amazed at what she finds.

Michael Strickland

 2013/10/30 23:58Profile

Joined: 2006/7/31
Posts: 3057


Greetings Lordoitagain:

Thank you for being patient with me.I think it is great that your friend has come to know the Lord and is no longer deceived by the false teachings in the RCC. I praise God and give thanks with you in that wonderful news.

You mentioned that "if my mother ever makes a thorough examination of even an approved RCC translation she will be amazed at what she finds," I have often thought this, but the truth is my mother does own her own Bible and she is extremely well read and knows both the old and new testament of her Bible very well. She reads daily and prays daily. She is most faithful to saying her rosary and lighting her candles. I have asked her questions about certain verses and pointed others out to her but thus far she does not have eyes to see nor ears to hear. She is committed to her faith in Jesus, to mary, and the RCC. If I bring up the topic or even ask question her she tells me I am the one with the problem not her. She has no problem with mary and her understanding of who she is and she will fight vigorously defending her faith. To her if she were to give up being a catholic it would like asking her to give up Jesus. So for now I pray for her, I pray and know as long as their is breath left in her body then there is hope she will see the truth.

Thank you for sharing.My only point was that doctrine in this case does matter because the beliefs taught in the RCC are false and something completely other then Biblical truth, just as with the Mormons, they teach lies as well. I know many are lost in religion today and in need of I will keep praying.

God bless

 2013/10/31 8:05Profile

 Re: Confessing Jesus Before Men

Mathew 10:32-33
Therefore whoever confesses Me before men, I will confess him before My Father who is in heaven. But whoever denies Me before men, I will also deny Him before My Father who is in heaven.


I remember a VOM article where the writer spoke of precious saints in Nigeria. The writer said these brothers and sisters could not articulate the finer points of the Calvinism vs Arminianism controversy. But the writer pointed that when an Islamic extremist would swing a machetti at them or point a gun and demand that saint recite the Islamic creed. But the saint would in a trembling voice say NO Jesus is Lord. Their theology becomes very, very deep. And this precious saint is martyred with the confession of Jesus on his lips.

I read countless heart wrenching stories of saints who are faced with such choices. In restricted nations such as Nigeria saints are faced with this decision by Islamic extremist. Deny Christ or die. In just about every case the saint will choose death over denying Jesus. That saint is martyred. The devil does not ask whether that saint is a Catholic or Protestant, Calvinist or Charismatic. All the devil knows is he is martyring a saint out of his hatred for Christ.

In Egypt there are saints who are from Orthodox Coptic background. They are Egyptian Catholics in a sense. Many of these saints have been tortured by Islamic extremists and forced to deny Jesus. Many of these dear people have stood their ground and would not renounce Christ. They have died for that confession of Jesus. Is anyone in this forum going to say that these martgred are not being confessed by Jezus before His Father.

I read prrofiles of Catholic believers in Syria who have been faced by Islamic extremists. Recite the Islamic creed and deny your Jesus or die. They will not deny Christ but confess Him and these Catholic brethren will be martyred. Who in this forum is prepared to say these Catholics are not being confessed by Christ before His Father in heaven?

Please, before you recite to me the evils of Catholicism let me ask you. What are you going to do when faced with a demonic crazed Islamic extremist demanding you recite the Islamic creed. And he is holding a machetti demanding you deny Jesus or die. What are you going to do? Where will your Calvinism get you? Will you have the courage to do what that Catholic brother or sister did? I can't help but wonder if there will be more Catholic martyrs in heaven who confessed Christ then Calvinist who confessed their theology.

In Pakistain there is a young mother and wife who has the honor of being sentenced to death for confessing Christ before some Islamic women. If the extremist have their way she will be executed by hanging. This sister's name is Asia Bibi. She has been in prison for a few years. It is almost certain she will remain their for the rest of her days or be martyred. And did I add that she us Roman Catholic. Yet she suffers for Christ. Who in this forum is going to say that Jesus will not confess her before His Father?

I remember the stink that was raised in this forum over Yocef Knardakhani He had been put in prison in Iran because of his faith in Christ. Yet some called his faith into question because he did not have precise views about the Trinity. Yet he was suffering for Christ. Who in this forum is going to say that Jesus is not going to confess this brother before His Fatber.

Pray tell where does it say in the New Testament that one must have precise theology to be counted as worthy as suffering for Christ? If we can accept the confession of the thief on the cross as being with Jesus. And that before his death. And he had no theology. Other than he sae Jesus as the Son of God. Is God not merciful to accept the confession of the Catholic or Coptic believer who testifies of Jesus before his martyrdom. I dare say that a martyrs crown will await them.

I know many in this forum will take issue with what I am saying. My response to you is study the persecuted. For God is not looking for a head full of correct theology. But a heart that is yieded to Christ and if need be who will confess Him before men and die for that confession.

Blaine Scogin

 2013/10/31 9:18

Joined: 2006/7/31
Posts: 3057


Greetings Blaine

First let me begin by asking you some questions and know that I do so in love brother.

IF I have a bowl of soup and 99% of that soup is good food but 1% is poison it is still lethal and will kill right?

Why if I love my mother or others lost in the RCC church would I ever want to not share with them about the lethal 1% that the RCC teaches and will separate them from GOD for eternity?

Where is the scripture to support that those with a divided heart will see eternity with HIM?

Where in Scripture does it support those who pray to anyone other then GOD will see Heaven?

Can I really profess JESUS as LORD and then pray to Mary and other dead saints and not consider that an idol in my life?

Can I truly believe JESUS is LORD and still kneel down take up the rosary beads and pray to mary?

Do all roads then lead to Heaven, can my mother who professes her faith in Jesus along with her faith in the RCC trust from the Word that she will be in eternity once she dies?

If we say that the beliefs in the RCC church system does not matter then can the same be said for the Mormons?(they profess Jesus as well?)

There are many many things that can be an idol in our life I realize this, there are many many things that one can cling to other then GOD and think they are fine with the LORD but until we start speaking the truth to one another in love and in HIM many are going to eternity lost and in darkness and we stand around speaking of how we do not want to offend. If I am in sin, then risk, and love enough to admonish me while it is still today and pray that the Holy Spirit will soften my heart that I will repent and be saved. To me this is a true demonstration of love.

As far as those saints who have gone to face judgement I have nothing to say one way or the other. It is not my place to judge someone especially since I had no fellowship with the person and do not know their heart. I can only speak to what I see in a persons life based on the fruit they show as we walk together and then only in love by HIS leading and not in judging but in sharing and praying for them.

Blaine I have not ever said that a person from the RCC can not be saved nor have I said that they can not have an encounter with GOD when faced with eternity knocking at their door what I have taken issue with is this "In the shadow of the cross in persecution, doctrine and theology become irrelevant in laying down one's life for Christ."

My issue is because doctrine does matter if it is false doctrine which the RCC church teaches then it does matter a lot to me and it should matter to you. If my mother and I were sent to those camps and facing any kind of persecution situation my heart would break not because I might be dying tomorrow, I know where I will be, but my mom she doesn't. Catholic's have no assurance of salvation. They believe if they are good enough and if they pray hard enough "maybe" God will in His mercy let them into Heaven. That is why she clings to mary so much, and why she pray to mary for intercessory prayer because she doesn't really believe Jesus listens to her prayers alone. How tragic is me it is heart breaking. I realize there are many across the world who die facing persecution but what of those who slip into eternity every day, what of those who die believing a lie every day because there are those who say doctrine(in the case of what the RCC teaches doesn't matter) My mom could go to sleep tonight having said her rosary and never wake up again where will she be?? IT weighs on my heart brother.

Perhaps brother it is time for me to bow out of this thread as I see it is going no where and I do not want to cause either of us to stumble before the LORD. I know you love the persecuted church and pray for them as much as I do my mother and the lost in the RCC. Let us each walk according to what HE is showing us and pray for those who are persecuted and lost in the RCC church, I am sure our time will be better served to do so.

Oh I just wanted to say you do not have to answer any of the above questions they are there for you to think and consider before the LORD and I want to assure you I have and will continue to do so with what you have shared here.

God bless you brother

Edit: Blaine as I hit the submit button the LORD quicken this verse to my heart in response to your question

21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’
Build on the Rock

24 “Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on the rock: 25 and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it did not fall, for it was founded on the rock.

26 “But everyone who hears these sayings of Mine, and does not do them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand: 27 and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it fell. And great was its fall.”

(I don't have the answers to everything I only know one day I was lost inside the RCC and then GOD in HIS mercy opened my eyes, HE opened my ears, and heart to HIS saving truth, that JESUS alone is the Way, the Truth, and the LIGHT. and I am thankful and pray for that same truth to set my mother and millions of lost catholic free as well.)

again God bless you

 2013/10/31 9:55Profile

 Re: MaryJane

Dear sister I understand the situation with your mother being caught up in the darkness of the RCC. And I certainly would pray that she see the light of Christ and trust in Him alone for salvation.

But dear sister I speak of believers in restricted nations who are in the shadow of the cross and are persecuted and martyred for their faith in Christ. Yes in the shadow of the cross doctrine and theology do become irrelevant when faced with laying down your life for Christ. What does become relevant is Jesus and confessing Him before men. It is not the theology that one has in their head in oersecuted nations. But the living Christ that dwells in their hearts.

There is a purifying aspect of persecution that burns away the dross of religion and reveals only Jesus. Thus one is not persecuted for being Coptic, Catholic, Calvinist, Cesdionist, Prntacostal, etc. But one is persecuted for being a follower of Jesus.

Sister I might add that Voice of the Martyrs has come under intense criticism because they aid Catholics who are persecuted for the name of Jesus. But as Proud Papa posted Richard Wormbrandt himself could not turn his back on those Catbolic believers who suffered under Rumanian communism.

Dear sister to say Catholics are martyred for their faith in Christ is not a blanket endorsement of the RCC. Or to say that the RCC is correct in doctrine. I only speak of those who confess Christ before men at the risk of their lives because He lives in their hearts. And this irregardless of the religious background they come out of.

Dear sister on a personal note I always appreciate your heart and love for Jesus. We may agree to disagree on this. But know I still view you as a precious sister in Jesus. And that with much heart felt affection.

With much blessing in Jesus.


 2013/10/31 10:48


Dear brother Blaine:

I appreciate your post and illustration: "In 2014 an economic collapse occurred because of the deficit. Martial law had been declared. The infamous Federal detention centers had been activated..."

It reminded me of a brother who told me the testimony of the early Anabaptist and how they were divided in their theology, but persecution kept them together in unity. However, once persecution was lifted the differences became more apparent in what we see today with the Mennonites, Amish, Hutterites and Church of the Brethren. And all these camps have their difference like open and closed brethren, old order and new order, etc., etc.

The question I have is can we make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace today? Will it take persecution like those in the 10/40 are enduring for this unity to occur? This sounds like a good topic for another thread, which I will post now.

Love in Christ,

Kenneth & Bia

 2013/10/31 14:51

Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7470



However, once persecution was lifted the differences became more apparent in what we see today with the Mennonites, Amish, Hutterites and Church of the Brethren. And all these camps have their difference like open and closed brethren, old order and new order, etc., etc.

There is one other issue that divided Anabaptists which I consider absurd, ridiculous but then I suspect in principle the same thing still happens today.

During the Reformation when Anabaptists were hunted like rabbits and killed, there were many who escaped their persecutors because there were kind people in the community who took pity on these people and provided them with the means to escape or endure. These people were not Anabaptists but were Lutheran, Catholics, etc. The Anabaptists were grateful for their assistance but this created a stir amongst themselves: will these people go to heaven for helping them? This was an issue that caused church spits.

Yup, same thing is still happening today - the cause just differs. Judgement belongs to God! Not people and nobody can tell God who he should let into heaven!!

Sandra Miller

 2013/10/31 21:36Profile

Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1714



Yup, same thing is still happening today - the cause just differs. Judgement belongs to God! Not people and nobody can tell God who he should let into heaven!!

Agreed. That is why I do not ask people when they got saved. I ask them when they accepted Christ. Salvation belongs only to God. We are all in the process of being saved from the present sins (wordiness). Already saved from past sins (if repented). Will be saved from the presence of Sins (if we pursue sanctification earnestly during our stay on earth).

People invited into heaven are those who valued Jesus in either earthly life and gave their heart to him. If a protestant who believes in all right doctrines gave only 25% of his heart to Jesus and rest 75% to world. On the other hand a RC believer who gave 75% of his heart to Jesus and 25% to Mary or other RC saints. Then do you think God will reject this RC believer and invite the protestant believer?

I confess that I have not seen Christ in the face of people who are suffering like how Mother Theresa saw. So I believe she loved Jesus more than how much I love Jesus NOW. It will be unfair to think that she will be kept out and I will be invited because of my right doctrine alone.

Again it is a very sensitive subject.


 2013/11/1 2:52Profile

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