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 63 Questions for those who oppose holiness

COMPLETE REPENTANCE

I believe with all my heart in preaching complete repentance A.K.A. holiness. While some tell me I am following in the foot steps of John Wesley, I would like to believe I am following in the foot steps of Jesus Christ. I have only read one sermon by John Wesley. What I believe in preaching I have found in the scriptures, and not in Mr. Wesley's sermons as wonderful as I am sure they are.

I have put together some questions for those who oppose the preaching of complete repentance.

1) Which sin is un-repent able? Please be specific. Which sin can not be overcome through Jesus Christ? Which sin can't we live without?

2) According to your theology, how much sin can a man commit and still go to Heaven?

3) What is meant by Jesus when He said "follow me"? Matt 4:19.

4) What is meant by Jesus when He said "For I have given you an example, that you should do as I have done to you." John 13:5

5) What is meant by Jesus when He said "be perfect, just as your Father in Heaven is perfect"? Matt 5:48

6) What is meant by Jesus when He said "unless you repent, you will all likewise perish"? Luke 13:3

7) What is meant by Jesus when He said "go and sin no more"? John 5:14, John 8:11

8) What is meant by Jesus when He said "Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, For they shall be filled." Matt 5:6

9) What is meant by Jesus when He said "Blessed are the pure in heart, For they shall see God." Matt 5:8

10) What is meant by John when he said "the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin." 1 John 1:7

11) What is meant by John when he said "if we confess our sins, He is fiathful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness"? 1 John 1:9

12) What is meant by John when he said "My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And IF anyone sins...." 1 John 2:1

13) What is meant by John when he said "Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments." 1 John 2:3

14) What is meant by John when he said "He who says, 'I know Him' and does not keep His commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him." 1 John 2:4.

15) What is meant by John when he said "but whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him." 1 John 2:5

16) What is meant by John when he said "He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked." 1 John 2:6

17) What was meant by John when he said "And you konw that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin." 1 John 3:5

18) What is meant by John when he said "Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him." 1 John 3:6.

19) What is meant by John when he said "He who sins is of the devil"? 1 John 3:8.

20) What is meant by John when he said "Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God"? 1 John 3:9

21) What is meant by John when he said "In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God". 1 John 3:10

22) What is meant by John when he said "And whatever we ask we recieve from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight"? 1 John 3:22

23) What is meant by John when he said "This is love, that we walk according to His commandments"? 2 John 1:6

24) What is meant by John when he said "Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God"? 2 John 1:9

25) What is meant by John when he said "but he who does evil has not seen God"? 3 John 1:11

26) What is meant by Jude when he said "Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling, And to present you faultless Before the presence of His glory with exceeding joy"? Jude 1:24

27) What was meant by Paul when he wrote "having been set free from sin"? Romans 6:18, 6:22

28) What is meant by Paul when he said "Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord"? Romans 6:11

29) What is meant by Paul when he said "And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God"? Romans 6:13

30) What is meant by Paul when he said "Therefore, having these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God."? 2 Cor 7:1

31) What is meant by Paul when he said "Him we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus"? Col 1:28

32) What is meant by Paul when he wrote: “Epaphras, who is one of you, a bondservant of Christ, greets you, always laboring fervently for you in prayers, that you may stand perfect and complete in all the will of God.”? Col 4:12

33) What was meant by James when he said “But let patience have its perfect work, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking nothing.”? James 1:4

34) What did Peter mean when he said “But may the God of all grace, who called us to His eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after you have suffered a while, perfect, establish, strengthen, and settle you.”? 1 Peter 5:10

35) What was meant by Paul who said “I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.”? Gal 5:15

36) What was meant by John the Baptist when he said “The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, "Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!”? John 1:29

37) What does the Psalmist mean when he wrote "Who may ascend into the hill of the Lord? Or who may stand in His holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, Who has not lifted up his soul to an idol, Nor sworn deceitfully. He shall receive blessing from the Lord, And righteousness from the God of his salvation."? Ps 24:3-6

38) What is meant by Jesus who said "I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me."? John 17:23

39) What is meant by Paul who said "For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins"? Heb 10:26

40) What is meant by Paul who said "Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not know yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?--unless indeed you are disqualified." 2 Co 13:5

41) What is meant by Jesus who said "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you cleanse the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of extortion and self-indulgence. Blind Pharisee, first cleanse the inside of the cup and dish, that the outside of them may be clean also."? Matt 23:25-26

42) What was meant by Luke when he wrote "And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless."? Luke 1:6

43) What is meant by Paul who said “who will also confirm you to the end, that you may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.”? 1 Co 1:8

44) What is meant by Paul who said “that you may become blameless and harmless, children of God without fault in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you shine as lights in the world”? Php 2:15

45) What is meant by Paul who said “concerning zeal, persecuting the church; concerning the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.” Php 3:6

46) What is meant by Paul who said “in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight”? Col 1:22

47) What is meant by Paul who said “so that He may establish your hearts blameless in holiness before our God and Father at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all His saints”? 1 Th 3:13

48) What is meant by Paul who said “Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ”? 1 Th 5:23

49) What is meant by Paul who said “A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, temperate, sober-minded, of good behavior, hospitable, able to teach”? 1 Ti 3:2

50) What is meant by Paul who said “But let these also first be tested; then let them serve as deacons, being found blameless”? 1 Ti 3:10

51) What is meant by Paul who said “And these things command, that they may be blameless.” 1 Ti 5:7

52) What is meant by Paul who said “that you keep this commandment without spot, blameless until our Lord Jesus Christ's appearing” 1 Ti 6:14

53) What is meant by Paul who said “if a man is blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of dissipation or insubordination.” Tit 1:6

54) What is meant by Paul who said “For a bishop must be blameless, as a steward of God, not self-willed, not quick-tempered, not given to wine, not violent, not greedy for money”? Tit 1:7

55) What is meant by Paul who said “Therefore, beloved, looking forward to these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, without spot and blameless;” 2 Pe 3:14

56) What is meant by Paul who said “Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent,

57) What is meant by James who said “Draw near to God and He will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners; and purify your hearts, you double-minded”? James 4:8

58) What is meant by Jesus who said “Repent, and believe in the gospel." Mr 1:15

59) What is meant by Paul who said "Be saved from this perverse generation”? Acts 2:40

60) What is meant by Paul who said “And those who are Christ's have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.” Gal 5:24

61) What does it mean when Paul said "No temptation has overtaken you except such as is common to man; but God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will also make the way of escape, that you may be able to bear it"? 1 Cor 10:13

62) What is meant by Paul when he said “So then, my dear friends, just as you have always obeyed, not only in my presence, but now even more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling”?

63) What was meant by Jesus when He said “But Jesus said to him, "No one who puts his hand to the plow and looks back is fit for the kingdom of God." Luke 9:62

 2005/3/22 16:41









 Re: Questions for those opposing holiness

Define "Complete Repentance" and "Holiness" in what you think they mean.

Karl

 2005/3/22 20:29
CJaKfOrEsT
Member



Joined: 2004/3/31
Posts: 901
Melbourne, Australia

 Re:

Quote:

Healingwaters wrote:
Define "Complete Repentance" and "Holiness" in what you think they mean.

Karl



Very good questions Karl. This is the real issue. What irritates me about many a "holiness preacher" (which I consider myself to be) is that many throw around words like repentance and holiness without defining them to their hearers. Even worse, when repentance is defined as "stopping doing the wrong thing and starting to do the right thing" and holiness and "never doing anything wrong".

This is a very imbalanced way of looking at it, and although these are greatly held up, due to many a "revivalist" (eg, Finney, Wesley, etc...) stressing "meathods" over "sovereignity", in similar ways that atheists stress "science" vs "religion". In both cases, one does not negate the other, in any way shape or form...except in thses circumstances. Science will only contradict true christian doctrine, when a false theory (eg, evolution or chaos theory). Meathods only contradict sovereignity when there twisted in a way that negates grace. Although the preacher will rarely admit this is the case (as with the evolutionary-deist who claims that "God could have done it that way"), they do this by claiming that man can be perfect, via will power.

One example of this kind of thing, is Ray Comfort's denial of the definition of repentance as being a "change of mind" (which is J Edwin Orr's definition). Although I have a great deal of respect for Comfort, and his teachings have exposed a great deal of error in my own theology, this statment is incorrect (although his sentiments are true). Repentance in Greek is metanoia, which is broken down as meta(change)noia(mind). Literally to repent is to change one's mind. However, both Jesus and John the Baptist stressed the necessity of of producing "fruit meet for repentance", ie if you ruly change your mind about something, then your behaviour will change.

In contrast, Finney's sermon "Faith" stresses the fact that meathods are useless without faith, although Revival Lectures seem to present the opposite. Wesley stressed that true Arminianism does not deny the sovereignity of God, although the Calvinists claim the Arminus did deny it.

It seems that "grace" vs "holiness", is the modern day equivelent to the Calvin/Ariminus debate. Although I admit that there are many a "grace" preacher that appears to be presenting "licence", there are also alot of "holiness" preachers that are really presnting "legalism". It has nothing to do with the intentions of the preacher (Jesse, from what I've heard of your preaching, and read of your articles, I understand that your not legalistic), but more that of ignoring "small issues" that imply "big problems", or slight errors that can lead people astray. An excellent preacher that toes the line between "grace"/"holiness" is Paris Reidhead (you have to go beyond "10 Shekels and a Shirt" to see it though). May I recomend my article [url="https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=3980&forum=36#26732"]Righteous Submission vs Zealous Obedience to Principle[/url] for a more detailed view on this issue.


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Aaron Ireland

 2005/3/23 5:12Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
One example of this kind of thing, is Ray Comfort's denial of the definition of repentance as being a "change of mind" (which is J Edwin Orr's definition). Although I have a great deal of respect for Comfort, and his teachings have exposed a great deal of error in my own theology, this statment is incorrect (although his sentiments are true). Repentance in Greek is metanoia, which is broken down as meta(change)noia(mind). Literally to repent is to change one's mind. However, both Jesus and John the Baptist stressed the necessity of of producing "fruit meet for repentance", ie if you ruly change your mind about something, then your behaviour will change.

I don't know Ray Comfort's work but I think I can guess what is happening.

'metanoia' in Greek does mean a change of mind, but 'metanoia' in the Septuagint, the old Greek translation of the Hebrew Bible was used to translate the Hebrew word 'nacham' and 'nacham' means much more than to 'change the mind'. It means, literally, to sigh or sob. So when a Hebrew used the word 'metanoia' he was not using it in the narrow Greek sense but with all the history of the word 'nacham' behind it.

If you want a definition of repentance, Christ has one. Mat 12:41 KJV The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because [u]they repented[/u] at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here. So now all you need do is read Jonah 3, find out how the men of Nineveh behaved, and you will have Christ's definition of 'repentance'.

Or if you want a short cut, you could listen to this.


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2005/3/23 6:06Profile
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

An elder at my last church defined true repentance as: "when you have the chance to commit that sin again-- you don't." Repentance begins with a change of heart, to where one now hates sin instead of loving it, and fulfills itself in righteous living.


_________________
Jimmy H

 2005/3/23 6:40Profile









 Re:

I'm all for holiness.... who wouldnt be?

As for preachers defining for their congregation what that means, my question would be... why dont the individual Christians have enough horse-sense to figure it out for themselves? Do they not have Bibles? Why do we depend so much on our preachers to tell us what we need to know? Most everyone in the US has a Bible... maybe if it was read more often there would be a better understanding of holiness.

No one can live a holy life and not be in the Word on a daily basis. It's like trying to build a house without any plans.

Krispy

 2005/3/23 8:25









 Re:

Complete repentance is turning away from every single known sin that you have in your life.

What is sin? "sin is transgression of the Law" 1 John 3:4. That means when you repent, you stop lying, stealing, murdering, worshiping idols, looking at women with lust (taking every thought captive to the obedience of Christ), etc etc.

Complete repentance is not holding on to any of it. It is turning away from every single known sin that is in your life.

What is repentance? First, it is not feeling sorry. 2 Cor 7:10 says "For godly sorrow produces repentance leading to salvation". Notice it does not say "godly sorrow is repentance" rather "godly sorrow produces repentance leading to Salvation." Repentance is changing your mind and changing your life. Repenance is that 180 turn. A complete 180 turn. Repentance is going the opposite direction.

It is the will of God that we turn away from all known sin. Christ came to take away the sin of the world. If you have not turned away from every single known sin in your life, if there is sin in your life that you are aware of and you are willingly allowing it to stay in your life, the blood of Jesus will not cover it according to Heb 10:26. If you want the blood to cover your sin, you must allow the blood to cleanse you of your sin. There is no heaven without holiness, no right-standing without righteousness, no forgiveness of sin without forsaking your sins. If there is sin in your life which you have refused to repent of, you are a backslider and need to repent.

In the words of Jesus Christ "go and sin no more". John 5:14, John 8:11

ps. I added more questions to the list.

 2005/3/23 12:46
IRONMAN
Member



Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Re: Questions for those opposing holiness

Quote:
According to your theology, how much sin can a man commit and still go to Heaven?



We must remember that God is not interested in out theolgy or our thoughts on what He does or doesn't do. He wants us to take on His holiness and righteousness that comes to us in spirit through Christ.We are not holy so Christ is our holiness, we are unrighteous therefore Christ is our righteousness. We can't fully comprehend the meaning of those terms without invoking the ministry of the Holy spirit because those are things attainable by the Him because they are foreign to us. All the questions you ask are good ones. The spirit will instruct me on which ones to address:

Quote:
What is meant by Jesus when He said "be perfect, just as your Father in Heaven is perfect"? Matt 5:48



Christ meant exactly that, we should be perfect as God is. Now how is that attained when we live in an imperfect state? It all stems from the Christ, Christ IS our perfection. We must put Him on in spirit, and become perfect in spirit by allowing the Holy Spirit to do as God desires. The flesh is corrupted and there is no perfecting that. The flesh rebels against God. The perfection Christ speaks of comes from us being perfected in spirit (not flesh) and walking continually in that spirit.

Your questions are easily answered by the Holy Spirit's ministering and that is what is required to get the true answers. Interpretations from the mind of man which is carnal can't help you or anyone else for that matter interpret what is spirit. That requires a revelation from God IN THE SPIRIT. Seek the spirit rather than our counsel bro. If the spirit does empower one or more of us to instruct you or anyone else then it will be so.


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Farai Bamu

 2005/3/23 13:01Profile
IRONMAN
Member



Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Re:

Quote:

KrispyKrittr wrote:
I'm all for holiness.... who wouldnt be?

As for preachers defining for their congregation what that means, my question would be... why dont the individual Christians have enough horse-sense to figure it out for themselves? Do they not have Bibles? Why do we depend so much on our preachers to tell us what we need to know? Most everyone in the US has a Bible... maybe if it was read more often there would be a better understanding of holiness.

No one can live a holy life and not be in the Word on a daily basis. It's like trying to build a house without any plans.

Krispy



We should all read our bibles often, but we should be weary of the spirit in which we do it. Sometimes I read it to get information to prove a point to someone and make myself feel bigger as I'm sure we all have at some point, let's be honest here and not goof off on this. If the purpose of reading the bible is anything short of glorifying God then it is better to leave it alone. I know I'm on a soapbox about the Spirit but this is what God is placed on me heavily to speak on without ceasing until He says to stop.

Brethren, I beseech you all to seek God's spirit concerning the Word. The pharisees knew the scriptures better than anyone else in their time but Christ referred to them as vipers and had no good things to say about them. One can know the bible back and forth and be just like the pharisees, lost. Of all the people they should have known Christ when they saw Him come. The spirit in which they learned the scriptures was one of self-glorification rather than God-glorification and we must not fall into this trap lest we lose our souls. The words of the bible have power but only when we seek the source of their power, the spirit of God. Without that the bible means nothing. The bible is like a lightbulb, if it is not plugged into the power source it can give off no light.

Holiness and righteousness and such things are foreign to us and we can't experience them without the spirit of God because that is the source of these things.

I'm not saying we should cease to read the bible. I'm saying we should read the bible not as a daily ritual but according to the instruction and compelling of the spirit. Anything outside of thay is fruitless. I mean if reading the bible was all it took, the world would be a much better place, but that is not where the power is as evidenced by the state of affairs. The anger God feels now is not because we're not praying, or searching the word, or evangelizing or any of those other things, it is the SPIRIT in which we do these things, most of the time we seek to glorify ourselves rather than God and God simply will NOT HAVE THAT. He is angry people and us as saints will be judged most harshly if we dont's shape up and seek Him in spirit and truth.

We have substituted commentaries, books, theologies, ideologies and so on for the spirit of God. Now some of these commentaries etc are inspired by the spirit of GOd no doubt but again they are like a lightbulb and without us plugging it in to the powersource, they can give no light.

I beseech us all to SEEK GOD EARNESTLY IN SPIRIT AND TRUTH WHILE THERE IS TIME FOR IT IS FAST RUNNING OUT.


_________________
Farai Bamu

 2005/3/23 13:36Profile
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

Hi Jesse,

Being a repentance and holiness minister myself, I have to ask:

Do you feel that if a person transgresses their conscience and commits a sin they are lost until they repent and ask forgiveness? If the answer to that is Yes then my second question is:

What sin(s) will damn the soul? Would the answer to that be "anything that you know to do good and are not doing it" or "whatsoever you do that is not of faith" or serious sins that war against the sould auch as the list in Galatians 5? If the answer is, "'any' known sin makes me once again a sinner" I would have to ask:

Are you saying that transgression of the Law is what constitutes sin, therefor working on Sabbath and eating Pork is sin; or that things like:

Smoking cigarettes
Chewing skoal
Watching TV
Wearing jeans (women)
etc. etc.

You see, holiness has a very different definition that what we may apply to it. Finney believed salting your food was a sin if you did it so it would taste better. He believed fishing and hunting for sport was sin. He talked frequently about women dressing as sin. I am quite sure he would have considered a game of gulf as sin.

Any thoughts?

God Bless,

-Robert


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Robert Wurtz II

 2005/3/23 13:41Profile





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