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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Universalism Experiences a Revival

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romanchog
Member



Joined: 2011/10/27
Posts: 322


 Re:

TMK:
What do you make of the words of CHRIST (who is in fact quoting some of the OT)?: Mark 9:43-48.

“If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life maimed, rather than having two hands, to go to hell, into the fire that shall NEVER be quenched— where

‘Their worm does not die
And the fire is not quenched.’

And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life lame, rather than having two feet, to be cast into hell, into the fire that shall NEVER be quenched— where

‘Their worm does not die,
And the fire is not quenched.’

And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire— where

‘Their worm does not die
And the fire is not quenched.'"

This passage clearly states that the fire will NEVER be quenched. I think that never=eternal.

The other thing that this passage should make us understand is that we DO NOT understand how evil sin is. (If our eye causes us to sin, would we really pluck it out? We would if we understood how evil sin is. NOTE: I am not suggesting people should pluck out their eyes! Just TURN FROM SIN.)

This is why many have such a huge problem with the doctrine of hell being an eternal conscious torment. If we had a proper understanding of sin, then we would have no trouble with this. Christ Himself and God the Father, who are the most merciful and gracious, much more than any of us can be, have no problem with this. Why? Because they understand what sin is.

My husband used to always say, when this subject came up: Why do we ask how could a good God send people to an eternal hell? That is the wrong question from the wrong perspective so it will provide the wrong answer. The proper question is: How evil is sin that even ONE sin will condemn you to hell? How evil is sin that our Lord had to die and suffer on the cross for even ONE sin, so that we could be spared from hell?

If we focus more on understanding the nature of sin and the holiness of God, we have less problems with this doctrine.

Natalie



_________________
Natalie

 2013/7/11 17:40Profile









 Re:

I think this is an issue that should be discussed. Along with hyper grace universalism is starting to gain ground among evangelicals. Last week I heard a brother in Salt Lake City stand up in his pulpit and annouce to his people he leaned toward universal salvation. He thought bell was a temporary place of torment where one could be purified and repent. Those if us who heard this were quite stunned. The brother was challenged but arrogantly holds to his position.

The disheartening thing is the brother had a credible ministry of bringing people out of Mormonism to the gospel. Himself, an ex Mormon who came to Jesus, this brother also prevented young people from going into Mormonism.

With so many young believers looking to tbis brother for growth in Christ, I fear the chastenibg hand of Gid will fall hard in this man.

Bearmaster.

 2013/7/11 20:35
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5255
NC, USA

 Re:

Hey All--

I appreciate the questions and challenges on this topic-- but I am serious that the moderators don't want this discussed. When I first joined the forum i made some comments regarding universal reconciliation and I was asked by the mediators not to discuss it.

I apologize to the mediators for discussing it here.. the topic had not come up for a while and I typed before I thought.

Just one comment regarding Jesus's discussion of cutting off hands and gouging out eyes... Gehenna (hell) was an actual physical place (a dump) outside the city gates where fires were perpetually burning.

And with regard to the nature and seriousness of sin-- did not God know that man would sin?

And with that, I will not discuss this any further.


_________________
Todd

 2013/7/11 22:04Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7432
Mississippi

 Re:

Blaine, it appears to me that the LORD is on a fast track in exposing false teachers. How sad it is that people who used to embrace orthodoxy are departing from it.

And it all began by listening to the easy, smooth voice saying, "aw, God is too loving - he wouldn't do anything like that would he? That would be just too terrible..." Tell that voice "NO!" and see what happens!


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2013/7/11 22:08Profile
Renoncer
Member



Joined: 2010/6/26
Posts: 478


 Re:

havok20x,

Thank you for giving the biblical and orthodox position on the eternal destiny of the elect and the reprobate.

The fact that you would have to do so on this forum shows how far this generation has fallen into false teachings. But, thank you for standing up as a watchman.

In Christ,
Renoncer

 2013/7/12 0:20Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7432
Mississippi

 Re:

____________________________________________________________
QUOTE:
"And with regard to the nature and seriousness of sin-- did not God know that man would sin?"
______________________________________________________________

Yes, he did. Scripture tells us that Jesus was slain from the foundation of the world.

Actually, the fact that God knew this would happen before he created man flies in face of common sense; it sounds foolish. Scripture also tells us the foolishness of God exceeds the wisdom of man. Since this is the case, one must back off and let God be God, knowing full well that what he does is best. Our perception is extremely limited - He sees much more then we do and because of it, I will trust Him to do what He sees as best. Our best is fraught with error,
rooted in ignorance. A lot of things happen in life that makes little or no sense at all, but God uses these things to help us understand our limitations. We do well to learn these lessons and make appropriate applications when needed.


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2013/7/12 9:48Profile
Renoncer
Member



Joined: 2010/6/26
Posts: 478


 Re:

TMK said: "Whenever this topic is discussed, people's interpretations are driven by forgone theological conclusions, particularly their 'a priori' belief that only some will ultimately be saved. This belief may in fact be true, but it is worthwhile to examine whether the scriptures truly teach this to be true, and by trying to avoid interpreting scripture through our foregone conclusions."

---------------------------------------------------

It is not an "a priori" if the Scriptures actually teach this.

Namely, Matthew 7:13-14: "Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are MANY. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are FEW."

Also, Luke 13:23-24: "And someone said to him, "Lord, will those who are saved be few?" And he said to them, "Strive to enter through the narrow door. For many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able."

So now, the question becomes: "Will you submit to the Word of God and let it correct your wrong ideas, or will you harden your heart against the Word of God and justify yourself?"

In Christ,
Renoncer

 2013/7/12 12:41Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5255
NC, USA

 Re:

Ok guys- unfair!.

I said I am not allowed to discuss this (per the moderators) but you keep addressing posts to me.

I would be happy to answer but have promised not to do so.

If you have specific question or concerns, email me.

By the way, renoncer, the arrogance of your last statement staggers the mind. I have already stated I am not a proponent of UR.


_________________
Todd

 2013/7/12 13:19Profile
Renoncer
Member



Joined: 2010/6/26
Posts: 478


 Re:

TMK,
I'm sorry you reacted this way. I wasn't trying to pick a fight, it was simply a statement of fact.

At this point, I would like to direct you to this sermon: http://www.sermonaudio.com/playpopup.asp?SID=75131828360

Even right now, I am convicted by this sermon.

God bless,
Renoncer

 2013/7/12 16:55Profile









 Re:

TMK,

The mods have not shut down this thread so you can assume that we are able to talk about it.

Let's talk about it. Let's consider it from all angles. There are always new people that have never heard of universal reconciliation.

Let's just have a peaceful discussion and stay in the Spirit.

 2013/7/12 18:35





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