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allaboard
Member



Joined: 2011/5/28
Posts: 100


 Re:

We had a wonderful house meeting today as the Lord moved in our presence and touched the hearts of many of the saints to testify of His goodness and pray openly. There are several things that take place in an "open" church meeting that are always a bit hard to convey to others. The old saying, "you just had to be there, to understand", is no less pertinent than in my post. We have been meeting together for years and I cannot tell you the last time I remember any strife or debate among our brethren. Head coverings or the lack thereof have never been spoken about, even once or been an issue in any sense of the word though some wear them and some don't. And the love for each other is unmistakeable. I feel very refreshed in the Lord, today after our time together. The focus was completely on Jesus Christ (as it should be).

Psa_133:1 Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in unity!

Amazing, how unimportant so many things become when you get into God's presence.

Now, what was this thread about? Oh, yes...this topic will continue to come up time after time which proves only one thing. Those who continue to bring it up are dissatisfied with the fact that the whole church is not conforming to their way of doing things and embracing this. Most major doctrines have 2 or more witnesses in scripture, yet this one does not.

After the book of John we see nothing of feet washing in the Early Church. That is why this is not a doctrine. They understood that Jesus was teaching that we should serve and minister to one another, especially when it is not desireable. And we don't see a second witness regarding head coverings.

Head coverings, mentioned only once in 1 chapter of Corinthians and we don't see this as a command or a practice that permeates the Church of Jesus Christ, today. Whenever, it is proposed (sometimes quite strongly), it never yields good fruit and of course, those who resist it are always viewed as rebellious.

But, what else do people have to do in a debate forum?

In reality and practicality, these types of discussions don't happen amongst brethren that are endeavoring to dwell together in unity and peace.

Rom 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink (or head coverings); but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
Rom 14:18 For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men.

So, if you are serving Christ in righteousness, peace and joy, you are acceptable to Christ and should be approved of men. Let us not then put a stumblingblock or occasion to fall in our brother's way.

Rom 14:19 Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.

 2013/6/16 18:21Profile
Isleander
Member



Joined: 2003/8/9
Posts: 21
Wales - United Kingdom

 Re: The Doctrine of Headship

Please see this link (and the link at the bottom of the page). Thanks, Alex.
http://uk-christians.net/group/bible-teaching/page/headcovering


_________________
Alexander P. Gillan

 2013/6/17 11:20Profile
narrowpath
Member



Joined: 2005/1/9
Posts: 1053
Germany NRW

 Re: The Head Covering Movement


We practise it, and we do not question others why they are not doing it. Most in our fellowship don't and I do not condemn anyone who does not. I have been in a church in Russia where they practise it. There was a lot of reverence for God in this place, very different from most places in the West I have been. The women had beautiful long hair,and the covering added spiritual beauty. They wore skirts and modest dresses. There were families with up to 12 children. They take their street shoes of when the enter the place of worship.
Yes, I also saw it practised it in a church affiliated with Zac Poonen.

I started a post about headcovering some years back. It was a heated debate.

I agree there are godly women who do cover and godly women who do not, as well as ongodly women who cover, but this does not make me waver.

In all of these debates, be sure the L-word (legalist) comes out soon. I found it very revealing to see in what spirit some people argued.

1. Cor 11:16 But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God.

My advise for those who cover, show a meek and gentle spirit towards those who disagree. Put your covering on your head and humility for the rest of your body. This is the best advertisement for this precious truth.

May Christs peace rest upon us all.

 2013/6/17 12:27Profile
allaboard
Member



Joined: 2011/5/28
Posts: 100


 Re:

In referring to your link: http://uk-christians.net/group/bible-teaching/page/headcovering

I don't now how conducive to a good and fair discussion it is for the article to open up with denigrating Western Christians as being influenced by Feminism and that is why they don't subscribe to the headcovering. And, accusing them of being "brainwashed". It does give us a window into how you think, though. The conclusion is that those who wear headcoverings think that those who don't are worldly and still captivated by the spirit of feminism.

I don't need reams and reams to refute this.

The simple fact is baptism and the Lord's Supper which are ordinances of the Lord have several "witnesses" in Scripture and need no explanation outside of Scripture. Head covering is NOT an ordinance from the Lord.

Head coverings have no witnesses within Scripture, only occurring in ONE place and that is why people have to write reams and reams of articles attempting to convince people who have the Holy Spirit they they MUST wear a head covering. If the people cannot be convinced, then they must be denigrated and shamed (even avoided) into finally acquiescing or leaving the fellowship, altogether. How abysmally carnal!!

Jesus Christ talked about remembering Him ("Do this in memory of me") and the Apostles/Church continued the "Lord's Supper". Jesus Christ instituted Baptism and the Apostles/Church continues it. Jesus Christ did not say anything at all about head coverings and in all of the NT, it occurs only in one place. No WITNESSES!

Much ado about nothing, but very divisive and it must grieve the Lord.

I appreciate your post, narrowpath.

 2013/6/17 12:33Profile









 Re:

One wonders about a female who may have been converted out of Islam. She is told she has freedom in Christ. She need not wear the burka or the hajeeb. Yet she goes into a fellowship that requires a head covering. One wonders?

I am speaking of a Moslem woman who may be converted in the west. In places like Egypt and Iran, those sisters who have cone to Jesus wear the head covering for protection against Islamic persecution.

Bearmaster.

 2013/6/17 12:59
MaryJane
Member



Joined: 2006/7/31
Posts: 3057


 Re:

I have to say I think some of the responses from some here have been kind of unfair toward sisters who wear the head covering. What is really interesting is that many of these posts come from men??? For those sisters who choose to follow their convictions and wear a head covering I think its awesome. The desire to follow JESUS and simply obey HIM in your heart is a true thing of beauty. Theses sisters are following the conviction of their hearts and seeking to live unto to JESUS I think that is wonderful, and I pray that they are continually blessed as they walk with HIM daily.

God bless
mj

 2013/6/17 13:22Profile
Koheleth
Member



Joined: 2005/11/10
Posts: 530
NC

 Re:

Hi allaboard,

Probably you are not aware of the self-righteousness that comes through your post. "God, I thank you that I am not like these other people."

Quote:
Amazing, how unimportant so many things become when you get into God's presence.



Does that mean that anything that is not important to you should be unimportant to all? Who determines what is important?

Quote:
this topic will continue to come up time after time which proves only one thing.



In your mind or God's? So, it is not possible that some people are interested in discussing it?

Quote:
Most major doctrines have 2 or more witnesses in scripture, yet this one does not.



Are you saying that anything in Scripture that only has one witness should be discarded or is not from the Lord? Is it a doctrine that something must be mentioned twice? What if the Lord has a good reason for only putting it in his Word once?

Quote:
After the book of John we see nothing of feet washing in the Early Church.



Unfortunately, that statement is wrong. Paul mentions it to Timothy, and the early church writings contain references to it. Of course, this is getting away from the primary topic of this thread.

Quote:
Head coverings, mentioned only once in 1 chapter of Corinthians and we don't see this as a command or a practice that permeates the Church of Jesus Christ, today.



We don't see a lot of things as a practice that Permeates the Church of Jesus Christ today, and for the most part that is because people are not following the Lord's will or plan, so of what use is the argument about whether we see something in the church today or not? What matters is whether it is in the Word or not.

Quote:
But, what else do people have to do in a debate forum?



This is actually not a debate forum. It is a revival forum. The original post was only putting forward something for people to consider, nothing more. If it does not bless or encourage you in the Lord, no one said you had to accept it or agree with it to be part of these forums. So I find that the one who wishes to debate is you.

Quote:
Rom 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink (or head coverings); but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.



Why add to the Word of God and have Paul contradict himself?

Quote:
Head covering is NOT an ordinance from the Lord.



Why reject plain Scripture and depart from the apostles sent by Christ? Paul said, "Now I praise you, brothers, that you remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you." What follows? The head covering and the Lord's Supper.

Quote:
Jesus Christ did not say anything at all about head coverings and in all of the NT, it occurs only in one place. No WITNESSES!



Jesus didn't talk about many topics, such as homosexuality. Should we reject what the apostles say on that topic also? And I hope you are able to see that saying one witness is "no witnesses" makes everything you say lack credibility.

Quote:
Rom 14:19 Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.



All Christians agree with that Scripture. But that does not mean that we limit ourselves to only discussing certain Scriptures. All Scripture is profitable.

 2013/6/17 14:01Profile
allaboard
Member



Joined: 2011/5/28
Posts: 100


 Re:

Quote:
by MaryJane on 2013/6/17 10:22:38

I have to say I think some of the responses from some here have been kind of unfair toward sisters who wear the head covering. What is really interesting is that many of these posts come from men??? For those sisters who choose to follow their convictions and wear a head covering I think its awesome. The desire to follow JESUS and simply obey HIM in your heart is a true thing of beauty. Theses sisters are following the conviction of their hearts and seeking to live unto to JESUS I think that is wonderful, and I pray that they are continually blessed as they walk with HIM daily.

God bless
mj



I think that is a great way to end a troublesome thread (that I believe is ALWAYS divisive), by extending to those who don't wear headcoverings the same sentiments. Namely: Those who don't wear headcoverings are simply following their convictions, too and want to obey the Lord in their heart and be a testimony of beauty to Him.

Good word! What else needs to be said?

Endeavor to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.

Usually the person that starts an OP is actively involved and when they are not, it makes me wonder why they started the thread.

 2013/6/17 14:11Profile
Koheleth
Member



Joined: 2005/11/10
Posts: 530
NC

 Re: The Head Covering Movement

Quote:
Head coverings are not a popular doctrine. In fact, that’s quite the understatement. So why would I start a movement based upon it? Do I enjoy controversy? Absolutely not. Looking to be divisive? The opposite. Then what would possess me to do such a thing? The short answer is, because it’s in the Bible.



So that someone does not misunderstand where I am coming from, the only sure foundation is Christ. Head coverings are nothing to "start a movement based upon it". If head coverings become our focus, instead of Christ, we are building on wrong foundations that are guaranteed to fail.

However, don't let the pendulum swing the other way. That does not mean that head coverings are not in the Bible or that they should not be discussed. Of course they are in the Bible, and since they are, they are to be a part of the Christian life. Unless we are ready to throw out the Bible.

Greg said the following:

Quote:
Other ones such as Foot washing, Holy Kiss, Baptism for the dead are 1-2 verses are not really as important or they would be commanded or emphasised more. Also there is no specific spiritual allegory behind the practice as shown in scriptures for Foot Washing etc. But for headcovering as other have alluded to, submission and spiritual headship is a major spiritual teaching behind it.



I agree that any passage that discusses both God and Christ is among the most important passages in the Bible. 1 Corinthians 11 begins this way, and so we recognize that something essential for all believers is in this section of Scripture. As for something only being mentioned in 1 or 2 Scriptures, I know that Jesus cited some pretty obscure verses from the Old Testament to make some major points. I don't believe something being mentioned less often than something else means that it is not important to the Lord or that we can push it aside or ignore it. I think Paul talks as much about "foolishness" in the two Corinthian letters than all the Scriptures together on the Lord's Supper. In the end, quality wins over quantity. What is the Lord trying to communicate? What is his message through the Word?

 2013/6/17 14:15Profile









 Re:

Koheleth no one is denying that head covering is not in the scriptures. But the question would be is the command still binding on the church today or was it a cultural issue particular to the Corithians

All scripture is breathed out by God and profitable. However not all scripture is applicable. That would certainly convey O.T. law. There are ceremonial verses in the Old Covenant writings that are not binding on New Covenant believers.

There are web sites that will argue both sides of the passage under question. It may be for the Holy Spirit to lead and guide what each sister is to do in each situation.

Bearmaster.

 2013/6/17 14:18





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