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Solomon101
Member



Joined: 2008/4/1
Posts: 531
America's Heartand

 NO MORE PENTECOSTAL POPEMOBILES!

THIS BLOG IS FROM J. LEE GRADY. I SAY A HEARTY , "AMEN!"

The election of the new pope is a prophetic slap in the face for our egotistical excess.

I’m not Catholic, and I’ve never completely understood Catholics’ preoccupation with Vatican politics. But I’ve been watching the Vatican closely since last week when Jorge Mario Bergoglio of Argentina became the 266th pope and instantly got 2 million followers—and counting—on Twitter.

Why is this man so popular? That’s easy to understand. He’s humble. He cooks for himself. He chose to live in a small apartment in Buenos Aires instead of the archbishop’s palace. When he was the leader of Argentina’s Catholics, he took el micro—the city bus—to get around. He took the bus again after his election last week in Rome.

He even slipped out of the Vatican after his election to go and worship with the regular people—without security guards or the popemobile!

And Bergoglio, who will go by the name Pope Francis, is a staunch advocate of social justice. He reportedly asked his Argentinean colleagues to skip his inauguration in Rome and give the money they would have spent on airfare to the poor.

Have you noticed a contrast between Pope Francis’ simple lifestyle and the sickening excess that is on display among some of our Pentecostal/charismatic leaders?

I’ve pulled a lot of my hair out watching our embarrassing charismatic sideshows over the last few years. I think it is time we draw a line in the sand and say: “NO MORE.”

NO MORE BODYGUARDS. We have evangelists who send a small squadron of muscular thugs to “scout” the lobby of a hotel before they arrive. This is extremely odd when you realize that most of the people in said lobby have never even heard of the guy! Sorry, but I really don’t trust a man of God who claims he needs a bodyguard in church. Get down on the people’s level if you want to minister to them.

NO MORE $10,000 PER NIGHT HOTEL ROOMS. We have traveling preachers who book 10,000-square-ft. hotel rooms with private pools so they can rest on their way home from international trips. Excuse me? We could build an orphanage with the money this man wasted. (P.S. I know a good Hampton Inn where you can get a nice bed for $89 a night—and it includes a hot breakfast.)

NO MORE PRIVATE JETS. We have egomaniac ministers who insist on flying in private jets to speaking engagements, claiming that preachers who fly commercial aircraft have no faith. These same ministers will hand you a fuel bill for $25,000. That is sick, especially when you consider that Jesus rode a donkey when He was presented as the Messiah to Jerusalem. (Note to Rev. Bighead: You are not the president, and you do not need Air Force One.)

NO MORE CHARLATANS. We have slimy TV preachers who beg for dollars on Christian television stations, pocket a large amount of the take and then use some of the funds to install marble floors in their four-car garages. That’s worse than when medieval priests sold papal indulgences to get relatives out of purgatory.

NO MORE LIMOUSINES. I don’t believe ministers have to drive clunker cars. Higher-priced cars usually mean lower repair bills. But we have a problem when a visiting preacher refuses to be picked up at the airport in a church van, or when the pastor of a 100-member church insists he must ride in a neon yellow Ferrari. Get over yourself. Maybe you should learn from Pope Francis—and take the bus until your ego shrinks to a normal size.

Last week in this column I shared a dream in which I saw a tsunami crashing into the Vatican and turning the Catholic system upside down. When the new pope was elected, an Argentinean newspaper called him “Tsunami Bergoglio” because they expect him to reform the stuffy, prideful, bureaucratic Vatican and challenge Catholics to return to a humble focus on Christ.

We need the same drastic reforms on our side of the evangelical/Catholic divide. We need Pentecostal and charismatic leaders who shun the palace, reject lavish excess and get back to the basics of true gospel ministry.

J. Lee Grady is the former editor of Charisma and the director of The Mordecai Project (themordecaiproject.org). You can follow him on Twitter at leegrady. Click here to read his column from last week, in which he describes a dream he had about a coming reformation in the Catholic Church.

END ARTICLE-

Amen and well said Mr. Grady, well said!

Original article is at http://www.charismamag.com/blogs/fire-in-my-bones/17130-no-more-pentecostal-popemobiles

 2013/3/20 20:07Profile









 Re: NO MORE PENTECOSTAL POPEMOBILES!

Pentacostals aren't the only ones fleecing the flock. A few weenks was posted an article about a big mega church in a big state building a building that cost several million dollars. The church was not charismatic.

I guess the church wanted to make sure the sinners had nice pews to sit in while they heard the gospel preached....sigh....And so it goes.

Ands you wonder why China and Iran are having revival.

Bearmaster.

 2013/3/20 20:21
SteveHale
Member



Joined: 2007/2/15
Posts: 193
NSW Australia

 Re: NO MORE PENTECOSTAL POPEMOBILES!

Amen ! Great artical.


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Steve

 2013/3/20 20:22Profile









 Re:

Total lack of discernment in this article. You do not address one heresy with another.......... bro Frank

 2013/3/20 23:27
a-servant
Member



Joined: 2008/5/3
Posts: 435


 Re:

HOW TO WIN FOLLOWERS AND INFLUENCE PEOPLE

So Mr. Grady of Charisma fame (noun: charisma : "A personal attractiveness or interestingness that enables you to influence others") got impressed with another Twitter user's followers account. Francis the pope came out of nowhere and made apparently a truckload of followers in no time leaving the size of his own personal attractiveness meassured in followers in the dust.

But behold, Mr Grady paid attention to the new style of attractiveness coming out of Rome. It's not the display of oversized prosperity of charismatic success anymore that draws the crowds, it seems to be that simplicity is now the new trend in that niche all of a sudden.

So there, American charismatic market leaders are totally out of fashion, and the 'simple pope' teaches them a quick lesson in effective charisma, a playing field they thought they had completely cornered. Now it's time to adopt and adjust to win back lost ground in mass credibility and market relevance.

Or as an alternative that wasn't mentioned yet: How about switching from mammon to Christ? Yes I know, that new orientation and preference would mess up about almost the entire lifestyle and system of operation in that niche segment, but hey look at pope Francis, if he can imply it, so can you. You have to become a man of higher principle if you want to attract followers these days. He is a Jesuit and wove in the desire to come to a "new world order" in his very first mass sermon. What kind of an attraction and role model that must be for someone that just deals in personal charisma we can only wonder. Then again, 2 million followers—and counting—on Twitter, what real charisma expert can just ignore these numbers?

Mr Grady reminds me of his high time as a personal attractiveness writer when he was the last to discern, against his conviction, of what kind of spirit that tatooed revival artist in a tent in Lakeland was, and he still seems to be completely out of the loop with discernment and reality as such.

 2013/3/21 6:07Profile
murrcolr
Member



Joined: 2007/4/25
Posts: 1529
Scotland, UK

 Re:

Quote: Ands you wonder why China and Iran are having revival.

We need a revival because of the condition of the church.

Quote: Amen ! Great artical.

So now the pope becomes someone we look up to as a example?????

The Jesuits (the order where the current pope comes from) was founded in 1534 formed the backbone of the Counter Reformation.

You may think that the Counter Reformation is a thing of the past because we are not seeing Inquisitions today but this movement continues until today and with renewed effort through various avenues of the evangelical/Protestant church.

In a way, it is more insidious than the Inquisitions, because now it has infiltrated Christianity and is being disguised as the “new” Christianity. (Rick Warren promotes it as the “new” or second reformation.)


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Colin Murray

 2013/3/21 6:09Profile









 Re: Rick Warren

Mr Warren is an example of what happens when one becomes personally wealthy but have no sound central teachings which you regard to be more precious than all other things. His ministry since the success of his first publications resulted in Mr Warren undergoing a personal transposition which ideologically took him from a presentational preacher to a hands on philanthropist and resulted in the so-called P.E.A.C.E. initiate which has also been termed the new reformation as a result of Mr Warren own determination. It forms a not insignificant, though not unique part in a work of deception in our day, which in some ways is no more different to similar philanthropic ideals which have existed in previous days. Some of these have been evident in the USA and some, in fact most were evident in the days of the British Empire. When we speak of the Emergent Church what we are speaking about is really something which has been in the making from the beginning of the second century and though it has changed direction in visibility cannot be put off as though it were a mere garment. It can only be comprehended in the spirit and it can only be resisted in the spirit as well.

The new Pope is singularly different from men like Mr Warren in as much as he does not need or actually possess any personal wealth. This isn't just a silly distinction, it speaks of a discovery more than 1500 years ago that personal wealth when finally spent can be translated into service, where wealth is singularly invested in an idea. The idea is a monastic life style and the exhaustion of personal wealth.. In the end this finally became Dominican and Franciscan some centuries later and expressed itself in the Mendicant (Chastity, Poverty & Obedience) variant where poverty especially was regarded as essential to success. This early monastic as well as mendicant understanding forms the basis for serving the poor and the down trodden. Rome has centuries and all the tradition of experience in this area and makes Mr Warren' efforts look like small change. Yet Rome also has all the Catholic doctrines which make ruin the truth outwardly. Mr Warren on the other hand, has no benefit of personal experience other than what has come to him by virtue of the five changes of understanding which inform his new wealth. Im afraid one day Mr Warren will discover that he is headed for Rome and a Pontifical blessing which will ensure his name amongst men, but will also prove to have been one more thread in the weaving of a garment which once put on will be almost impossible to remove and his money will have simply served to pay the tailor.

 2013/3/21 9:40
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7474
Mississippi

 Re: NO MORE PENTECOSTAL POPEMOBILES!

Good article.

This did make me chuckle, "Maybe you should learn from Pope Francis—and take the bus until your ego shrinks to a normal size." Oh, one might learn a few things if he were to take the bus that cannot be learned in the plush seats of a luxury automobile.


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2013/3/21 10:19Profile
twayneb
Member



Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2003
Joplin, Missouri

 Re: NO MORE PENTECOSTAL POPEMOBILES!

Jesus traveled everywhere He went on foot, or on a donkey. But that was the mode of the day. The question that comes to mind is, Where is the line to be drawn? Should a minister fly coach, or is it acceptable to be in business or first class? At what price range does a hotel room become excess? Should a ministry have a state of the art copy machine that binds, staples, and more, or should be use a mimeograph machine?

I am in total agreement that there have been fleshly excesses among ministers and ministries. But the article casts a pretty wide net. Why pentecostal ministries? What about other denominational ministries? Is the Papacy any more or less corrupt because the new Pope rejects some of the physical excesses? Does it not all boil down to a man and his relationship with the Lord?

Are there times when we can clearly see that a minister or ministry is out of balance? Are there times when error is obvious? We must unequivocally say yes to these question. But are there times when our judgement is off base?

Please don't interpret what I am saying as a defense of any one person or group, nor as a criticism of any person or group. I am simply saying that we often look with the eyes of men and judge a situation from the outside. Do we know the inner workings, the motive, the call or will of God for that ministry? Perhaps we judge too quickly sometimes.

I am reminded of a verse from the book of Ephesians. Paul says, "Eph 4:26-27
(26) Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:
(27) Neither give place to the devil."

Paul is quoting this passage from Psalm 4:4
(4) Stand in awe, and sin not: commune with your own heart upon your bed, and be still. Selah.

The verse has nothing to do with not going to bed angry. Rather, it means that when we are provoked, we are not to react in a way that causes us to sin. (And the obvious excesses can absolutely provoke us to wrath if we are not carefull, for they can definitely offend.) Rather, we should consider the matter in our own heart and remain silent. The sun should not set at the end of the day with us having executed our own wrath upon the situation. Rather, we should ponder the matter. pray about the matter, and allow God to speak to the issue. Then, if we are in a position to do so, God can give us the words in due season to deal with the issue.





_________________
Travis

 2013/3/21 10:55Profile
staff
Member



Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 1507


 Re:

Hi,
I think this post is mixed up logic!
Pope Francis up to last week was a nobody,he only has the followers because of institutional religion nothing to do with being poor etc.
Also I agree with Frank on comparing one heresy with another.
The position of pope is the position of a non Christian False Prophet.
The position of The excessive Pentecostal hype types is not so clear as many of them are saved and will be in Heaven.
Also many many Pentecostal churches are doing amazing work around the world but this thread throws them all in together which is wrong.
I have said it before and I will say this again.
The are many Christians on Sermonindex are reactionary.
The reaction to the hype falsehood is reflected in the belief of a persecuted,post tribulation church.This view may or may not be correct(for me not)but the teaching cannot be inspired by reaction but the word.
Also it is clear that the thread is devoid of hope and knowledge that God has a plan to deal with the Church,Yours Staff

 2013/3/21 18:53Profile





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