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Discussion Forum : General Topics : The new doctrine of Reckoning yourself dead to sin

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dohzman
Member



Joined: 2004/10/13
Posts: 2132


 It is amazing

I have enjoyed the interaction here, the reading has been good, it kinda opened up a bit of a fire storm though. I want to comment here that we can not of ourselves reckon our selves dead per se' any more than we can repent, anymore than we can make ourselves alive to Christ and dead to sin any more...any more..fill in the blank. All those things are really the job of the Holy Spirit Who lives in us...but what we can do is things like yield or even follow, it really is as simple as looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith, and honestly there is nothing done that's done without faith that's accepted by God, for without faith it's impossible to please God.The big question we all must answer personally is what is the man-ward side and the God ward side in this walk, where does my responsibility start and stop and where does God's responsibility start and stop...that is really what I hear being asked here or alluded to. And I don't think there's a true formula here....but this I do know, Jesus said you shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free. I hold onto that because I love easy to understand truths and the Lord always simplifies things for my understanding. I see salvation , repentance, reckoning,etc...much like I see worship, that it is all in-compassing it is all of life, that we live all of our moments with a God subconsciousness and keep our eye fixed on Jesus, than just let Him work out the details. I hope no one was thinking that by reckoning I was using it to replace repentance or that I believe repentance isn't a part of the reckoning process. I have just learned that much of what I try to do in my own strength is best left to the Holy Spirit.


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D.Miller

 2013/3/1 20:14Profile
davidkeel
Member



Joined: 2006/5/11
Posts: 377
West Sussex, England

 Re:

I have enjoyed what you have said Apollos.


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David Keel

 2013/3/1 20:26Profile
UntoBabes
Member



Joined: 2010/8/24
Posts: 1031
Oregon

 Re:

Hey bear, I happen to have a few moments
Since I did not get any emails from you yet. I will answer my own question.

Why did the gentile sinners embrace Christ while the phirasees did not?
or why do people in muslim nations embrace Christ while people in America do not?

Same answer to both question.
God must bring brokenness before someone embraces Christ or appreciate the grace offered to them.

This brokeness can be wrought by going under strong conviction of sin as in revivals or through the school master in whatever form that may be.
A leper who had to stay outside the gate or run in the streets crying "unclean, unclean" has gone through the preparation process of brokeness.
The harlots, sinners, outcast, and despised are all in this category.
The school master can be someone's upbringging in a sinful enviroment. or someone with physical infirmity, Zaccheus may have fallen under this category.
the severity of the law can be the school master under which category Paul or a muslim terrorist may fall.
Or just having a terror filled encounter with God may be the factor that brings brokenness.

Whatever the case, brokeness must be wrought before someone can appreciate salvation.

I have included a quote from "The Korean penticost and the suffering that followed" that may answer your question as to why people in muslim nations, India, Korea, and third world countries are flocking to Christ.
Yes they have an encounter with Christ but they must be brought low before they can embrace Him.

Hope you enjoy the read.

The title is: " Korea's preparation for the gospel"

"Now we come to a special instance of God's providence. Buddhism is dead in Korea. Go to China and you will find the temples in good repair, go to Japan and in every village you will find the temples flourishing, their roofs looming high above the houses. You will hear the tinkle, tinkle of the bells and see the multitudes pressing through the gates and bowing down before tablets of wood and idols of stone, just as blind as ever. In Korea it is not so. The temples are there, but they are falling and in ruins. There are holes in the tiled roofs where the bats make their homes. where the rainy season Hoods come through and rot the
wooden pillars. The people despise the few shaven-headed priests who remain. The fact is, Confucianism killed Buddhism in Korea. After the first enthusiasm had passed away and the Buddhist Church bad become rich and powerful. the priests grew corrupt and arrogant. Their lazy, immoral Jives disgusted the Korean people. schooled as they we’re in the high ethics of Confucius, and when the Buddhist hierarchy sought to interfere with the affairs of state, the government itself turned upon Buddhism and gave it its death blow. Most of the temple lands were taken away and the priests forbidden to enter the capital city. Today they point a finger of scorn at a Buddhist priest. calling him a 'nom.' a 'low down scoundrel.' So we find a remarkable state of things in Korea. A people by nature intensely religious without any entrenched religion with priests able to hinder the progress of Christianity. Confucianism. considered apart from ancestral worship. which has been added on, is not a religion. It is the far eastern world's system of morals, the school-master, if you please, that is today leading Korea to the feet of Christ. One other condition that must be noticed in any consideration of the remarkable progress of the gospel in Korea in the 20th century is her preparation of suffering and humiliation. The location of Korea creates difficulties. Lying midway between China and Japan she has been for thousands of years a bone of contention between these two nations. both claiming suzerainty over her. First China would demand and compel tribute. then Japan would pour her warriors across the channel and punish the Koreans for yielding to China. When these two nations have had a quarrel with Korea they have usually been at war with each other and have fought out their quarrels on the long suffering soil of Korea until the land bas run with blood again and again. As a consequence the people, unable to resist the hordes that came upon them, built cities of refuge high in the mountains, where they might flee when one by one their walled cities fell before the ruthless invaders. It is a mistake to suppose that the Korean people are a cowardly people. Their history is replete with records of heroism and desperate bravery in defense of home and country. They have simply been overpowered. The marvel is that in spite of all they have suffered, they remain unbroken and an integral people with one language and one blood, numbering today fully thirteen million. No wonder Korea is poor. Not only has she been continually devastated by war, but her own government has often been worthless and rotten. For centuries her kings 'farmed out' the rule to magistrates and governors who paid many times their salary for the office, and then
squeezed back the amount and many times more from the people by unjust methods. It has been as much as a man's life was worth for it to become known that he had accumulated anything, unless he had powerful friends to protect him. If the robbers neglected to come down from the mountains and take it away. the robber magistrate would send out his 'runners,' arrest a man on some trumped-up charge. throw him into prison and beat him till he would be glad to pay all that he had for his life. Recently the greatest misfortune of all. at least in Korean eyes, befell their country. After the Russo-Japanese war of 1904, the Japanese withdrew a large part of their Victorious army from Manchuria back into Korea. Japanese soldiers were posted in every city and hamlet. The few Korean troops were forcibly disbanded and the common
people compelled to give up their guns. Even the old flint-lock guns that the mountaineers used for tiger hunting were collected and burned in heaps, where I have seen the mass of their tangled barrels lying. A treaty was secured from the Korean government giving Japan absolute control of Korea's foreign affairs and virtual control of the internal administration. It is easy enough for an outsider to look on and philosophically remark that it was inevitable that either Russia or Japan must prevail, and better Japan than Russia. It is not so easy for the sufferer to see God's hand in the malady. I have no political purpose in writing this narrative and am merely trying to show conditions and how these conditions have conspired in God's providence to work out salvation for Korea. The simple truth is that the Koreans are a broken-hearted people. Corrupt and unworthy as their old government was, nevertheless they loved it, and all the more, no doubt, in proportion as it seems to be taken away from them. It is pitiable to see them grieve, to see strong men weep over national loss. They come to us and say, 'Is there any country so poor, so unfortunate as ours?' But it means much that their eyes are open. Formerly they were proud and arrogant; they were 'wretched and miserable and poor and blind and naked,' and knew it not. Now, with respect to this world, at least, they know just where they stand. They know they are despised and rejected. The arrow had entered Korea's soul. Her spirit was broken. For years now she has been sitting in the dust, mourning not only her present misfortunes, but her past sins. Over just such a stricken people has God so often stretched out His hands in blessing. By brokenness of spirit Korea has been prepared for the Gospel, and when a further work of God's Spirit was manifested the Scripture was again fulfilled: 'The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit; and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.'"


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Fifi

 2013/3/1 20:54Profile
UntoBabes
Member



Joined: 2010/8/24
Posts: 1031
Oregon

 Re:

Brother Frank,

when you said "To gaze upon sin is to empower sin and bring condemnation"

I took that to mean rushing someone through the conviction process.
Afterall, if someone has not yet recieved comfort from the Spirit, what else are they able to do but to gaze upon sin, to see it depth and hight, eternal consequences and vile nature. It may be God's will for them to gaze upon it for a while before they are granted forgivness.
It just happen to be that these are the ones that appreciate their salvation most.

It took Jean 48 hours to give birth to her first child but the second one came easy. For some reason she just cherishes that first one just a tiny bit more. It is the child not the birth pangs she cheriches, but she cherishes him because he was brought forth through much pain.


http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=10853

in this cd the deacon was most likely saved. When God asked him to call the judge, could he have looked to Christ before he made things right. was he able to claim Christ righteousness and ignore God command to obey.

Why, he even quoted the Scriptures to God. He said: " God, you said if we confess our sins you would take them away as far as the east is from the west" He claimed God promises but to no avail.



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Fifi

 2013/3/1 21:39Profile
Sree
Member



Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1700


 Re:

Quote:

Whatever the case, brokeness must be wrought before someone can appreciate salvation.



I agree with you. I believe in the same. I came to Christ being a Hindu for first 25 years of my life. I was convinced that the Hindu God I choose to worship is a form of God. But deep inside me I had a very strong conviction of my Sins. I thought my good works will balance my evil. I knew that I was way behind the standard of God in my life. When I started reading the Gospels after hearing about Christ. I immediately understood the life that God wanted me to live. I accepted Jesus as a savior so that my past sins committed during my time of my lack of knowledge of God's ways will be forgiven. I then embraced this wonderful life that Jesus thought us to live but after 2 years of trying I finally came to conclusion that I can no longer live this life. In that brokenness I encountered the real Jesus who became Lord of my life. I was filled with his spirit. The Bible which was till then only book of Knowledge became a book of life to me. Jesus became a reality in my life.

God is light there is no darkness in him. Anyone who says he has seen the light but still lives in darkness, unable to differentiate light and darkness is a liar. He has actually not seen the light. Same way anyone who says he had an encounter with Jesus but never got convicted of his darkness (sins) has not seen Jesus.


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Sreeram

 2013/3/1 21:57Profile









 Re:

Untobabes writes........

"Brother Frank,

when you said "To gaze upon sin is to empower sin and bring condemnation" I took that to mean rushing someone through the conviction process.


I know you did sis, you were just wrong. I did tell you that this is not what I meant. Lets just leave it at that. I have written for years on the danger and the abomination of cheap grace/ May the Lord bless you sister..........bro Frank

 2013/3/1 22:27









 Re:

Brother David writes..........

"I have enjoyed what you have said Apollos."

Thank you so much brother, I appreciate that..........bro Frank


 2013/3/1 22:29
proudpapa
Member



Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 Re: The new doctrine of Reckoning yourself dead to sin

A lot of good disscussion,
I have been at work all day and will be working all day tomorrow, I hope this thread is still around when I get more time, because I would like to share some on how this topic was absoulutly essential in my life for relience on Gods power rather than my own strength in defeating habitual sin.
Repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ, always turns one away from sin.



 2013/3/1 22:40Profile
UntoBabes
Member



Joined: 2010/8/24
Posts: 1031
Oregon

 Re:


" Cheap Grace! "
No brother, I am not accusing you of that. I have read your posts here and on your blog, listened to your prayers, heard you life, conversion story to know better.

Sorry if I have offended you Frank.
Yes, let us leave it at that.
God bless



Wow Sister Sree, What a testimony.
I love to hear the testimonies of converts from different backgrounds. what an encouragemnet.

Blessings to all.


_________________
Fifi

 2013/3/1 23:35Profile
Sree
Member



Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1700


 Re:

Quote:

Wow Sister Sree, What a testimony.
I love to hear the testimonies of converts from different backgrounds. what an encouragemnet.




thank you. By the way I am a brother in Christ.


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Sreeram

 2013/3/1 23:41Profile





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