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Discussion Forum : General Topics : The new doctrine of Reckoning yourself dead to sin

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davidkeel
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Joined: 2006/5/11
Posts: 377
West Sussex, England

 The new doctrine of Reckoning yourself dead to sin

I've been hearing recently both in our church or on posts in Sermon Index that the way to overcome our sin is just by merely reckoning ourselves dead to it.
For me that seems to be doing away with true repentance.
If our persistent sins could be 'reckoned' away then the Scripture that follows that verse would not have to say. 'Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body'. This passage is in Romans 6 v 11 onwards.

The doctrine of being changed by faith alone without the need of repenting seems like it's taking a new form. That of just 'reckoning'.

I hope this doesn't take away from the incredible change that can occur in a believers life by the power of the spirit as we believe and follow Him. I've experienced change this way as well as many many people. But persistent sin which draws us away from the Lord has to be put to death.
It could end up leading you away from Christ.


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David Keel

 2013/3/1 6:56Profile
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 Re: The new doctrine of Reckoning yourself dead to sin

I would consider both true brother. But yes true repentance as you say it is not just a mental thing but is an action we take in real life to exhibit our beliefs.

Our Christian life must be fueled by looking to Jesus Christ, but while looking at him we will sometimes see ourselves and repent and change as the Lord helps us to grow in Him.

Hypergrace is where there is no real repentance but just a thinking that my old life is done and God forgives but the life really never changes.


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 2013/3/1 8:49Profile
dohzman
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Joined: 2004/10/13
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 Re: The new doctrine of Reckoning yourself dead to sin

What is reckoning ? Is it an action ? It can be, if so than is it repentance? It can be, because true repentance is turning away. True repentance can sometimes be confession and prayer but are more often a literal turning away from sin(an action word) and going the opposite direction in a very literal sense. You can fill in the details of what is sin and how reckoning yourself dead could be an action taken at a specific point in time.


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D.Miller

 2013/3/1 9:24Profile
MaryJane
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Joined: 2006/7/31
Posts: 3057


 Re:

by dohzman on 2013/3/1 3:24:05

What is reckoning ? Is it an action ? It can be, if so than is it repentance? It can be, because true repentance is turning away. True repentance can sometimes be confession and prayer but are more often a literal turning away from sin(an action word) and going the opposite direction in a very literal sense. You can fill in the details of what is sin and how reckoning yourself dead could be an action taken at a specific point in time.

____________

That is interesting. I have always thought that reckon ourselves dead to sin was the action of repenting or at least the part of turning away from sin once it is repented of. I always thought of repentance as both the verbal speaking to the LORD concerning our sin then followed by the action of turning away from the sin?

God bless
mj

 2013/3/1 9:32Profile









 Re:

Great posts by all. Repenting is a turning away. To reckon is to believe. What must we believe? We must believe that if you repent then the Lord will forgive you. Yet this is no abstract truth, coldly followed as some ritualistic formula. It would only be that if one lived by the letter and not by the Spirit. One is life and the other is death.

King David is a great example of what it means to repent. When his sin was exposed, when he was mightily convicted, he fell on his face. He cried out to God to " take not thy Holy Spirit from me." He pleaded with God to " restore unto me, the joy of my salvation," and desired that there would be a right spirit within him and that that his heart would be clean.

He understands that God requires that a man be truthful to himself and to God. He understands that if he asks the Lord to cleanse him and purge him then the Lord would be faithful to do just that. He begins all of this by acknowledging his sin and the fact that he has sinned against God. Why does he do any of this? Because he loved the Lord and he knew that sin had separated him from the one that he loved and that by his sin he had offended a holy God. Love, this relationship that we have with Jesus, if it be the very essence of our lives, makes unrepented sin unacceptable. Not because there is a violent God waiting to fall on us like a ton of bricks when we sin, but because it separates us from the life that is in the one that we love.

To gaze upon sin is to empower sin and bring condemnation, to come before the living God and lay that sin at the brazen altar is to bring life and forgive-ness and restoration. It is a painful thing and takes brokenness to come before the Lord and acknowledge that we have sinned against him. It is more painful to try and conquer sin, outside of His presence, and it will fail. In dealing with sin, we must humble ourselves and come before him, we must not hide from Him as Adam did............bro Frank

 2013/3/1 10:54
davidkeel
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Joined: 2006/5/11
Posts: 377
West Sussex, England

 Re:

I like your words about reckoning Apollos. How that reckoning is believing we have been set free in reality from sins power.

There is no sacrifice involved in just 'reckoning' alone. But the losing of our lives through repentance is so much more beneficial. I believe the act of true repentance holds us prisoner to God. Not in a bad way but we experience his closeness so much more.

And we are free to be Christs servant to follow him without hindrances.


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David Keel

 2013/3/1 12:17Profile
UntoBabes
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 Re:

Quote

"To gaze upon sin is to empower sin and bring condemnation"


I would like to just coment on this quote from brother Frank.

This statment has been used often to rush someone through the process of conviction.
How often have I found even here on this forum someone who is under conviction of some beseting sin to be soon swarmed by posters advising such to quit gazing at his sin but look to Jesus.

While in true repentance we see exactly the opposite.
For example, in times of revival when the Spirit of God is poured the precess of conviction can go on for a very long time.
It took Nathan Cole upon hearing George Whitefield two years to come to a saving faith in Christ, the devil trying at times to give him false comfort only to discover soon after that he was not yet saved.
It took Mary Peckham in the Lewis revival three month under agony of thinking that she was not of the elect before Christ was revealed to her soul.
A story that was told of the Hebrides revival with Duncan Champbel that a woman came to him urging him to come and see her husband who was under sever conviction to the point that she was fearful for his life. When the preacher came and heared the man groaning under sin asking God to have mercy on his soul he advised the wife to leave him alone and not give him any comfort until the Spirit of God finishes the work and impart comfort from above lest the work be cut short.

Now, you must know that during revivals time speeds up tremendously that what take years in time when the Spirit is absent normaly takes hours when He is poured.
Given this fact we should be the more aware of the danger of speeding someone through the process of conviction.

Have we not seen enough cases of sinners coming to us asking for comfort and relief and we told them to gaze upon Christ and not listen to the voice of the accuser ( ignorantly assuming that whoever if causing them to feel conviction of sin must be the accuser of course, who else would it be ) only to find them coming back under the same conviction unable to obtain relief until the Spirit imparts it.
And yet when they do obtain relief from God Himself, no man nor demon can take that away.

This is almost unheard of in this age of easy believism.

Please heed the voice of the old saints who knew and experienced first hand what it is to be under the devil's accusations and then obtain comfort from God Himself.

Heed the voice of John Bunyan in the introduction to his " Grace Abounding to the Chief of Sinners" for only such a sinner can speak of the true grace of God.

Here is Bunyan:
"It is written in the Scripture (Isa 38:19), “The father to the children shall make known the truth of God.” Yea, it was for this reason I lay so long at Sinai (Deut 4:10,11), to see the fire, and the cloud, and the darkness,
that I might fear the Lord all the days of my life upon earth, and tell of his wondrous works to my children (Psa 78:3-5).Moses (Num 33:1,2) writ of the journeyings of the children of Israel, from Egypt to the land of Canaan; and commanded also, that they did remember their forty years’ travel in the wilderness. “Thou shalt remember all the way
which the Lord thy God led thee these forty years in the wilderness, to humble thee, and to prove thee, to know what was in thine heart, whether thou wouldest keep his
commandments, or no” (Deut 8:2). Wherefore this I have endeavoured to do; and not only so, but to publish it also; that, if God will, others may be put in remembrance of what he hath done for their souls, by reading his work upon me.
It is profitable for Christians to be often calling to mind the very beginnings of grace with their souls. “It is a night to be much observed unto the Lord for bringing them out from the land of Egypt: this is that night of the
Lord to be observed of all the children of Israel in their generations” (Exo 12:42). “O my God,” saith David (Psa 42:6), “my soul is cast down within me; therefore will I remember thee from the land of Jordan, and of the Hermonites, from the hill Mizar.” He remembered also the lion and the bear, when he
went to fight with the giant of Gath (1 Sam 17:36,37).
It was Paul’s accustomed manner (Acts 22), and that when tried for his life (Acts 24), even to open, before his judges, the manner of his conversion: he would think of that day, and that hour, in the which he first did meet with grace;4 for he found it support unto him. When
God had brought the children of Israel through the Red Sea, far into the wilderness, yet they must turn quite about thither again, to remember the drowning of their enemies there (Num 14:25). For though they sang his praise
before, yet “they soon forgat his works” (Psa
106:11-13). In this discourse of mine you may see much;
much, I say, of the grace of God towards me. I thank God I can count it much, for it was above my sins and Satan’s temptations too. I can remember my fears, and doubts, and sad months with comfort; they are as the head of Goliath in my hand. There was nothing to David like Goliath’s sword, even that sword that should have been sheathed in his bowels; for the very sight and remembrance of that did
preach forth God’s deliverance to him. Oh, the remembrance of my great sins, of my great temptations, and of my great fears of perishing for ever! They bring afresh into my mind the remembrance of my great help, my great support from heaven, and that the great grace that God extended to such a wretch as I. My dear children, call to mind the former days, “and the years of ancient times: remember
also your songs in the night; and commune with your own heart” (Psa 73:5-12). Yea, look diligently, and leave no corner therein unsearched, for there is treasure hid, even the treasure of your first and second experience of the grace of God toward you. Remember, I say, the word that first laid hold upon you; remember your terrors of conscience, and fear of death and hell; remember also your tears and prayers to God; yea, how you sighed under
every hedge for mercy. Have you never a hill Mizar to remember? Have you forgot the close, the milk house, the stable, the barn, and the like, where God did visit your soul?"

John Bunyan.




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Fifi

 2013/3/1 13:14Profile
passerby
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Joined: 2008/8/13
Posts: 600


 Re:

One enters the faith through repentance and baptism, which essentially is dying to one's self. Just, think about the life of the apostle Paul.

I wonder if there is really another way. But don't be overwhelmed by symbolism though.

The visible things we see in a person while undergoing the state of repentance, especially before conversion is affected by the prevailing theology at that time. But it is really the Lord that brings repentance and conversion. If the Lord wills that we do it this way or that then let it be.

He know us even before the foundation of this planet, even before we were born.

 2013/3/1 13:31Profile









 Re: The new doctrine of Reckoning yourself dead to sin

Reckoning ourselves dead to sin is not new.
It is simple - When Christ died on the Cross we died with Him.

We are dead to sin,

This is a result of What Christ has already done for us and in us.

Why not embrace it and enjoy it?
I walk in the reality of this truth daily. You can too.

 2013/3/1 14:39









 Re:

But must we enter into faith in Christ through the slough of despind? What of Zachaeus? One encounter with the living Christ and he is giving away half if his wealth and he is offering to pay back 4 times the amount of anyone he has cheated. What of Saul of Tarsus later known as Paul? One encounter with the living Christ and he is preaching Jesus in Damascus.

I remember reading an account of an Islamic cleric. He persecuted Christians. Three nights in a row the Lord Jesus appeared in a dream and said "Believe on me". For some Moslems one vision is enough. This man had 3 visions. So he gets a New Testament. Reads and believes. He preache Jesus to the Moslems as a changed man in Christ. When called before the authorities to give a defence of his actions. He was asked why he left Islam. He said 3 nights in a row Jesus appeared to me in a dream and said " Believe on me". He said Mohamed never did that. I can only imagine he was martyred for his faith in Jesus.

Maybe there are times one has to groan under their sin to find Christ. But in the above examples people came to Christ through a marvelous encounter and their lives were changed through it.

My thoughts.

Bearmaster.

 2013/3/1 14:55





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