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QUOTE:
"However, I also think it might be a complete waste of time."
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Natalie, I see within this quote a doubt to do something that you desire. You perceive a benefit but doubt raises its head.

Many times in life I went ahead and did something I wanted to but also doubted the wisdom of it. When I did so, I regretted it later. I believe God plants those doubts in our mind to safeguard us from whatever danger is out there that works to destroy us.

Just thought I would share this...

God bless.

ginnyrose

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Sandra Miller

SkepticGuy wrote ///as 2 the scripture that proudpapa pasted concerning paul not coming with articulate speech, all one has 2 do is read romans or ephesians to understand that paul had extremely articulate speech. yes, his words were inspired by the holy spirit, but we all know that the holy spirit used the language and speech patterns of the writers of the bible. paul was extremely well educated///

This is true Paul was very well educated and did have to humble himself as to allow not his worldly wisdom to be what he used to convince others of the truth, He allowed the Spirit of God working through him to do the work.

But Paul was one of the Few that God chose that was well Educated as he writes

1 Corinthians ch 1

19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.
20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

Peter and John
Acts 4:13
Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were unlearned and ignorant men, they marvelled; and they took knowledge of them, that they had been with Jesus.

RE: ///this is a fact. when we come off 2 the world as uneducated, stupid, ignorant or hillbilly-ish it only serves to strengthen the stereotypes that the world has of christians.///

1 Corinthians ch 1
26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:

27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:

29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.

30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

31 That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

RE: ///if we are mocked because we are stupid, or at least sound stupid and can not put together a sound argument for what we believe then we are not mocked becuz of christ, but becuz we are stupid. and that brings reproach upon the name of christ. christians ought 2 be well spoken and able 2 hold a conversation. we ought not 2 sound like a bumbling redneck.///

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RE:///thats all i was saying. as usual someone took what i said and embellished it and came up with sumthing different.///

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RE:///and yes, i dont capitalize my words on here and sumtimes use "texting" spelling, but trust me, i can articulate and write quite well. :-)///


Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise.
For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.
And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain.

ginnyrose wrote ////by ginnyrose on 2013/2/25 15:41:47

______________________________________________________________
QUOTE:
"However, I also think it might be a complete waste of time."
______________________________________________________________

Natalie, I see within this quote a doubt to do something that you desire. You perceive a benefit but doubt raises its head.

Many times in life I went ahead and did something I wanted to but also doubted the wisdom of it. When I did so, I regretted it later. I believe God plants those doubts in our mind to safeguard us from whatever danger is out there that works to destroy us.

Just thought I would share this...

God bless.

ginnyrose////


This is the Best advise yet on this thread!!

Once again very well said ginnyrose!

A scripture that came to mind while I have been meditating on this

2 John 1
7For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
8 Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward.
9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

We often think of this as applying to heratics within our fellowship.
But this is a lecture in which Dawkins will probably
be presented as the teacher and the audience as the students, I personally feel that we would be opening ourselves and our families up to a spirtual attack if we willingly biddeth him God speed in such a way.

This is just my personal conviction, it is not my job to dictate over others conscience but I do feel that we are called to express our convictions and articulate in the best way that God will allow us to, why we hold to the conviction that we do.

ginnyrose wrote: //Natalie, I see within this quote a doubt to do something that you desire. You perceive a benefit but doubt raises its head.

Many times in life I went ahead and did something I wanted to but also doubted the wisdom of it. When I did so, I regretted it later. I believe God plants those doubts in our mind to safeguard us from whatever danger is out there that works to destroy us.//

Thank you for this thought. I believe that you are right. After my own exposition above, about how we are only commanded to teach the Word to our children, I don't think that this is something I need to take my children to. A thought keeps coming to my mind, though: "But they may be missing such a great opportunity." After what you said, I am more convinced that this is my thought and not the Lord's and that I should ignore it.

I can see all points of view here and I agree with all of the points of view expressed.

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Natalie

That sounds good romanchog. I think you've made a great call.

Tonight my heart is warmed by the sincere care and interest people in this thread have shown towards this question.

Blessings everyone,

MC

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Mike Compton

Quote: "The Science of Beauty and the Beauty of Science."

The beauty behind Science is God and the Beauty of Science is God.

For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools. Rom 1: 20-23

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Colin Murray

"The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.”


Some Christians feel the same way; they are just too afraid to admit it.

I agree with Romanchog that it is not enough to be merely appalled by this statement. We must be prepared to explain why this is not true(if not to others, then at least to ourselves), and it may not be as easy as it sounds.

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Todd

The FBI teaches their agents how to spot counterfeit dollars by studying the real currency. Than when they come across the counterfeit its a nature process of discovery. I am very careful what ministers as well as public speakers I'll even listen to because to undo 1 little piece of information....or mis-information can take weeks, sometimes even years...This I have experienced first hand.

Now I take a different position when presenting the Lord Jesus, I never defend God's actions to the un-saved or un-believing, it is just a plain waist of time.I will however pick the battlefield upon which I will plant small packets of information about the witness of Jesus Christ. The trouble in many public form style speaking venues is that there is never any true 2 way exchange and therefore the setting is always going to be pretty one sided. To tackle and deconstruct the speakers arguments hours or even days later is really a waist of time, unless of course you or your children are required to attend in order to receive a grade or credit for some course, than it's unavoidable and proper precautions will need to be in place and implemented.

This has been not only an interesting topic but also one that has been enjoyable to follow as it progressed.

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D.Miller

And then you get into the issue of public debates between people who defend some aspects of the WORD vs humanism. Who benefits? Since God allows it, I suspect someone might, however...

Allow me to take a trip down memory lane...

My memory goes back a long time ago when Rev. Bob Harrington used to debate the late Madelyn Murray O'Hare, a well-known atheist. She never repented, that we know of - she died under mysterious circumstances. It became a sport to hear these debates. Then there was one between Faye Wattleton, head of Planned Parenthood, and Randall Terry, a pro-life activist. In it Faye was as cool as a cucumber, Terry was like a pesky fly on this cuke...

Who benefited? God only knows. But what happened to the 'Christian' debaters? Harrington ended up divorcing his wife, marrying his secretary and now works in the motivational field - sad for a flamboyant Southern Baptist evangelist. (I have personally heard Harrington preach many times - he preached here in our town and the one west of us. As youth we loved to go listen to him!) I have heard Bob 'preach' since he embraced a motivational message and am left feeling very sad, so tragic.

And Randall Terry? He came under church discipline because of his infidelity, but others ignored his 'indiscretion' and supported him still. He divorced his wife, married another and is still active in the pro-life movement. ("Christianity Today" reported on this situation.) Who is being honored?

As I look these situations from this vantage point of many years later, I am wondering at the spiritual cost to the Christian. It appears to have opened the door to sin and since these 'Christian' debaters were famous personalities they considered themselves above disciplinary actions by their church...

Or, is the issue that of using the devil's methods to promote Biblical issues? Debate is called a sin in Romans 1:29: "Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers".

I remember well these debates just mentioned and am still troubled after all these years...so sad.

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Sandra Miller