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ceedub
Member



Joined: 2009/5/1
Posts: 215
Canada

 Re:

The plain read of the parable shows the third servant heading south, therefore in the most sober and clear warning this servant is shown to be counterfeit, present in the visible church, but unarguably counterfeit.

Therefore, the supposition that the talents represent eternal life, is of necessity to the text re a phrase that biblically always denotes hell, wrong.

So, either the conclusion is that there are counterfeits in the church, or the other option put forward is that Eternal Life isn't that eternal after all.


Ps. Matt 13:34 says it was parables for the multitudes.

 2013/2/23 16:33Profile









 Re: Talents

Quote:
The plain read of the parable shows the third servant heading south, therefore in the most sober and clear warning this servant is shown to be counterfeit, present in the visible church, but unarguably counterfeit. 

Therefore, the supposition that the talents represent eternal life, is of necessity to the text re a phrase that biblically always denotes hell, wrong. 

So, either the conclusion is that there are counterfeits in the church, or the other option put forward is that Eternal Life isn't that eternal after all. 


Ps. Matt 13:34 says it was parables for the multitudes.



Yes there is no doubt that the parable was for the multitude, many of whom in the end did have ears to hear and eyes to see and therefore would have no doubt recalled these things which Christ spoke to them later on when the actual Gospel of grace was preached beginning in Jerusalem. At this time though all these men and women had heard was the gospel of the kingdom. As those who were witnesses of John, who himself witnessed of Christ and who preached repent for the kingdom of heaven is at hand, were witnesses of the appearing of Messiah and therefore what they heard was all that which pertained to the kingdom of heaven.

Today we have not heard the words “repent for the kingdom is at hand” we heard “Christ crucified for sin and raised for our justification, repent believe and be saved”. This is the gospel of grace. Only then do we begin to comprehend that there is such a thing as the kingdom of heaven and only then can we begin to labour towards it. The parable of the talents speaks of the kingdom of heaven, which being presently far of, yet is near at hand because the deposit which brings forth eternal life is already with us. It is in us, as in an earthen vessel. This deposit is the gift of eternal life, but its outworking and fullness is not yet visible, unless we are broken and the seed or deposit is released to an increase it will prove to be unprofitable save for ourselves. The kingdom is also far off, even as the Master is far off, in that we are crucified with Christ, buried with Him in baptism, raised up with Him, ascended into heaven in His train and seated in Him at the right hand of the Father in heaven. For those who believe into Christ after the cross are more full than those who heard these words of Matthew chapter 13, as well as all the parables of the kingdom which followed immediately thereafter. They too would have to wait until pentecost before they would find their release into the reality of labouring for the kingdom.

The actual explanation of the parable of the sower is given from verse eighteen onwards:

“Hear then ye the parable of the sower. When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the evil one, and snatcheth away that which hath been sown in his heart. This is he that was sown by the way side. And he that was sown upon the rocky places, this is he that heareth the word, and straightway with joy receiveth it; yet hath he not root in himself, but endureth for a while; and when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, straightway he stumbleth. And he that was sown among the thorns, this is he that heareth the word; and the care of the world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful. And he that was sown upon the good ground, this is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; who verily beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.”

The preceding verses from verse eleven to verse seventeen were not an explanation of the meaning of the parable itself, they were rather an explanation as to what necessitated the speaking in parables and the condition of those who necessitated it. Verse twelve “For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that which he hath” speaks of the condition of the hearers who although they had the Christ were yet unable to believe in Him. This does not speak to the multitude of Israel, thought it does concern the multitudes of Israel. It is rather spoken to the disciples in private and as I say is an explanation of the condition of Israel. If we then look at the actual meaning of the parable which the Lord gives we can easily see that it has nothing to do with belief or unbelief in Christ Himself crucified for sin, which is the basis of eternal life, but is in keeping with the gospel of the kingdom and has to do with attitudes and faithfulness of those who labour in its power. “For the kingdom of heaven is not a matter of words but of power”. This message is not a matter of words, but a matter of power. The gospel of grace on the other hand is a matter of words and power because it is the proclamation of good news. It is faith by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. The gospel of the kingdom is concerned with power and walking by faith in the power of the kingdom for the sake of the kingdom come, which kingdom will become visible when King Messiah, the Christ of Israel Himself appears in visibility. For where the King is, there is the Kingdom.

This is how it was in the time of the apostles. We read “But when they believed, Philip preaching the good news about the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were being baptized, men and women alike Acts 8:12. First believe and then hear about the kingdom of heaven. In the same way from verse twelve again we read “For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that which he hath.” The first “hath” here points to the one who amongst those who believed in Christ, would also receive an increase. This increase is the knowledge of the kingdom, which the disciples were elected and chosen to know, and the “hath not” points to the one in the multitude who did not believe in Christ. Finally the “from him shall be taken away even that which he hath.” points to Christ Himself hiding Himself from Israel because though He was come to them, they rejected Him. So the Lord hides Himself from this time onwards.

There is no supposition on my part that the meaning of the talents represents eternal life. The meaning of the talents represents that which is the increase of eternal life, in short the means by which it is possible to labour towards an increase of the kingdom of heaven.

Quote:
This then brings us to the question of what is the talent. It is a measure of the calling of God in our lives. Faith, calling, gifts of the Holy Spirit, upbringing, ability to obey God, ability to be faithful to God, obedience to authority and perhaps many other such things. The talent is at very least that which God supernaturally invests in us throughout our lives in order to serve Him when He calls us to the vineyard to labour, in order that we might be profitable servants. As this investment is of God Himself it is able to grown and multiply just like real money is able to grow if it is put to use even in the smallest way. In short the talent is a responsibility and a duty to God Himself through Christ (the Master) to whom we have to give an account. It is evidence that we are servants of the Master and it is a requirement to serve the Master. It is also the basis for heavenly rewards. amrkelly



This is what I shared and no where do I say that the talent is eternal life. What I shared was that I believed that the talents were a measure of the calling of God in our lives, as well as the evidence that we are servants of the Master (among other things). What this means to me is really very simple. No one who is an unbeliever could possibly labour towards the kingdom of God. So then we are left with the only possible thing to say which is CAN A BELIEVER BE SENT INTO OUTER DARKNESS WHEN THE LORD JESUS RETURNS IN THE VISIBILITY OF HIS KINGDOM?

The answer to that question will make for a wicked and lazy servant or a faithful and obedient son. Such a day in which we live when the kingdom of heaven is at hand makes this parable all the more important to understand soundly.

 2013/2/23 18:02
proudpapa
Member



Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 

When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.
But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;
Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.
He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.
But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none.
Then said he unto the dresser of his vineyard, Behold, these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down; why cumbereth it the ground?
And he answering said unto him, Lord, let it alone this year also, till I shall dig about it, and dung it:
And if it bear fruit, well: and if not, then after that thou shalt cut it down.


I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.




 2013/2/23 19:59Profile
InTheLight
Member



Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2850
Phoenix, Arizona USA

 Re:

Sorry for jumping in here so late but I was reading from J.C. Ryle's Expository Thoughts on the Gospels and thought I would share it here;


The parable of the talents which we have now read is near akin to that of the ten virgins. Both direct our minds to the same important event, the second advent of Jesus Christ. Both bring before us the same people, the members of the professing Church of Christ. The virgins and the servants are one and the same people, but the same people regarded from a different point, and viewed on different sides. The practical lesson of each parable is the main point of difference. Vigilance is the key note of the first parable, diligence that of the second. The story of the virgins calls on the Church to WATCH, the story of the talents calls on the Church to WORK.

We learn, in the first place, from this parable, that all professing Christians have received something from God. We are all God's "servants." We have all "talents" entrusted to our charge.

The word "talents" is an expression that has been curiously turned aside from its original meaning. It is generally applied to none but people of remarkable ability or gifts. They are called "talented" people. Such an use of the expression is a mere modern invention. In the sense in which our Lord used the word in this parable, it applies to all baptized people without distinction. We have all talents in God's sight. We are all talented people.

Anything whereby we may glorify God is a talent. Our gifts, our influence, our money, our knowledge, our health, our strength, our time, our senses, our reason, our intellect, our memory, our affections, our privileges as members of Christ's Church, our advantages as possessors of the Bible--all, all are talents. Whence came these things? What hand bestowed them? Why are we what we are? Why are we not the worms that crawl on the earth? There is only one answer to these questions. All that we have is a loan from God. We are God's stewards. We are God's debtors. Let this thought sink deeply into our hearts.

We learn in the second place, that many make a bad use of the privileges and mercies they receive from God. We are told in the parable of one who "dug in the earth and hid his Lord's money." That man represents a large class of mankind.

To hide our talent is to neglect opportunities of glorifying God, when we have them. The Bible-despiser, the prayer-neglecter, and the Sabbath-breaker--the unbelieving, the sensual, and the earthly-minded--the trifler, the thoughtless, and the pleasure-seeker--the money-lover, the covetous, and the self-indulgent--all, all are alike burying their Lord's money in the ground. They have all light that they do not use. They might all be better than they are. But they are all daily robbing God. He has lent them much and they make Him no return. The words of Daniel to Belshazzar, are strictly applicable to every unconverted person--"the God in whose hand your breath is, and whose are all your ways, you have not glorified." (Dan. 5:23.)


_________________
Ron Halverson

 2013/2/23 20:32Profile
Elibeth
Member



Joined: 2011/8/14
Posts: 1148


 Re:

Hi everyone,
I really believe the talents is what The Lord gives to us,..the Spiritual
Bread, abilities to eat and to share as He directs,and not being ashamed
and hiding it,..as in the Bible saying this man hid it.

You are talking also about the Kingdom of God too.
I have shared somewhat of this before,but thought maybe to share
again.

About 15 yrs ago,while in a very special relationship with The Lord,..
(He had never did this before) But His Spirit just kept impresseing upon me
to do a study on 'The kingdom of God' ,..and I was not being disrespectful
to Him,..but I wondered 'of all subjects,why the Kingdom of God' ?
Nevertheless,I began a big study on the kingdom of God,...I compiled,
and compiled, and compiled for quite a while,and never was really satisfied with just what was meant .So Other subjects began to be of interest so I just left it and went on to study other subjects in the Bible.(there was SUCH
a hunger,that The Lord had given me.

Then, I would say,maybe a month, two,three,..one morning as I was rising
out of bed,it just flowed out of my spirit,...' The kingdom of God,is the resurrected Lord in us '! I would never have worded anything that way !

So that moring,as soon as I could,I began to search the Word to confirm
what I was told.It was so exciting.YES,It was true.
In the old Testament The Lord wanted man to hear and obey,..and in the
New Testament,the Lord wanted us to be in His kingdom,where He,the King wants us to be led by the Spirit of God,and obey.

So,as we know,where there is a kingdom,there is a King,and that King is Jesus.and He has taught me,that He has come into us,by way of the
Holy Spirit,to rule and be Lord in our lives....or else how can we call Him
Lord,Lord....and yes,He is long suffering,and merciful Father.

The Gospel Is truly,The Gospel of the kingdom,....
And yet there is more,but I will stop for now.

In the love for Him,
elizabeth








 2013/2/23 21:06Profile
ceedub
Member



Joined: 2009/5/1
Posts: 215
Canada

 Re:

I liked the post re Ryle.
However, in the parable, the talents represent a wealth of the master's that is entrusted to the professing church. It is either increased and all given back to the master or neglected. In either case it's all the Masters whatever the talents are.

That's my hang up with seeing them as anything we can squander on ourselves and keep. It doesn't seem the parable allows for that, and in the process exhorting us that true increase of the Lords talents will only be what is truly His. His Kingdom. Not ours.

Hence none can say they are bringing God increase if they are simply whitewashing a selfish life with the facade of supposedly caring.

And that's why I find the study of the parable very encouraging and clarifying....
Are we bringing Christ increase in His kingdom?

He must increase.

 2013/2/23 22:22Profile
proudpapa
Member



Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 Re: Elibeth

Hi Elibeth

Elibeth wrote ///Then, I would say,maybe a month, two,three,..one morning as I was rising
out of bed,it just flowed out of my spirit,...' The kingdom of God,is the resurrected Lord in us '! I would never have worded anything that way !

So that moring,as soon as I could,I began to search the Word to confirm
what I was told.It was so exciting.YES,It was true.
In the old Testament The Lord wanted man to hear and obey,..and in the
New Testament,the Lord wanted us to be in His kingdom,where He,the King wants us to be led by the Spirit of God,and obey.

So,as we know,where there is a kingdom,there is a King,and that King is Jesus.and He has taught me,that He has come into us,by way of the
Holy Spirit,to rule and be Lord in our lives....or else how can we call Him
Lord,Lord....and yes,He is long suffering,and merciful Father.

The Gospel Is truly,The Gospel of the kingdom,....
And yet there is more,but I will stop for now.

In the love for Him,
elizabeth ///

Very great thoughts, ones that I am just starting to cut the surface in my understanding.

 2013/2/23 23:25Profile
Elibeth
Member



Joined: 2011/8/14
Posts: 1148


 Re:

Thank you proudpapa,

Now I would like to also write a little bit about what ceedub brought up about 'eternal life or everlasting life.' Touch on this,..just a little.

This is what I have come to think on and understand.
In the natural don't we have to continue to eat in order to live.
Through He blood,we have access in...., an intrance has been made for us to enter in.life has come into us.

Life is an on-going thing.if we eat His Bread,( the Word He gives us through the Spirit,..led by the Spirit) and drink His Blood we will have Life in us.( ('except ye eat my bread and drink my blood ye have no life in you'...)...but what if we choose to eat our bread,...how we think,..our will,and throw His will ,Bread,..Word to the ground,which is death,....are we then eating of the Bread of Life,which He is offering 'abundantly'' ?

In John He said He came to give us Life,and that more abundantly,.....
That tells me that He continually offers us Life.( not I that lives,but He that
lives in me.)..that is the life that Jesus lived with the Father and that is the life that Paul lived.

My thoughts,

Lovingly,
elizabeth

 2013/2/24 13:11Profile
proudpapa
Member



Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 Re: Elibeth

Elibeth wrote//// by Elibeth on 2013/2/24 10:11:05

Thank you proudpapa,

Now I would like to also write a little bit about what ceedub brought up about 'eternal life or everlasting life.' Touch on this,..just a little.

This is what I have come to think on and understand.
In the natural don't we have to continue to eat in order to live.
Through He blood,we have access in...., an intrance has been made for us to enter in.life has come into us.

Life is an on-going thing.if we eat His Bread,( the Word He gives us through the Spirit,..led by the Spirit) and drink His Blood we will have Life in us.( ('except ye eat my bread and drink my blood ye have no life in you'...)...but what if we choose to eat our bread,...how we think,..our will,and throw His will ,Bread,..Word to the ground,which is death,....are we then eating of the Bread of Life,which He is offering 'abundantly'' ?

In John He said He came to give us Life,and that more abundantly,.....
That tells me that He continually offers us Life.( not I that lives,but He that
lives in me.)..that is the life that Jesus lived with the Father and that is the life that Paul lived.

My thoughts,

Lovingly,
elizabeth////

That is it! Absoulutly it!!

 2013/2/24 13:55Profile
ceedub
Member



Joined: 2009/5/1
Posts: 215
Canada

 Re:

Elizabeth wrote....
"are we then eating of the Bread of Life,which He is offering 'abundantly'..."

which rightly asks of our part.



But in Rom 8...
"For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor LIFE.. shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord."


Is Paul saying not even OUR LIFE can seperate us from Christ?

This has many a time seemed the most imposing foe on the list, especially in our day of prosperity and endless temptation. And therefore no small encouragement.




"Jhn 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand..."

 2013/2/24 14:53Profile





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