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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : God does not go against the will of man.

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Croref
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Joined: 2008/3/18
Posts: 334


 Re:

by twayneb on 2012/11/4 4:47:33




Thank you, twayneb!

What you have posited is probably the best [return] understanding [put into words] I can look forward to. That said, you left out one consideration that needs be entered into the equation, i.e., the foreknowledge of God. I invite you to, not that for the most part it is needed, think about that and make any adjustment to your reply you may wish to.

Words mean something. I am always open to sound ones. Thanks again.

 2012/11/4 8:14Profile









 Re: God does not go against the will of man.

This business of God’ choosing particular individuals is a difficult thing to understand. On the face of it one could say that God chose all the men and women He has used. Some like Job and David for example appear to show that God chose and did so knowing the heart and attitude of the man in question as well. So in choosing Job He chose a man who despite every reason to curse God, would not curse God. David was chosen as a boy and though he sinned grievously by setting a man up for death so he could have his wife, David showed exceptional repentance and contrition before God and men. His heart was willing and capable of honouring God even at his own cost. Others have been chosen yet their lives were wicked and they never did do the right thing and always looked to their own loss before God’ Name. Whether we hold our position before God in perfection (a thing most unlikely) or whether we repent it will be our hearts in the end which will determine whether we learn to walk uprightly or else continue to disobey God leading and His will for us. If we know that in our hearts we cry out to God and desire His will for our lives, no doubt we will in the end be brought to that place even if it costs us all that we are and all that we hold precious. Yet I say only as we have cause to know it. It cannot be fathomed by reason. Only God knows whether such a man or woman exists and only that man or woman will know that they have with good reason and understanding, asked God to do it, despite their contrary inclinations. Perhaps this business of the heart is the key to understanding if God goes against the outer man, knowing as He does the inner heart! It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of The Living God.

Edited Lot to Job

 2012/11/4 8:39
arkp
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Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 51


 Re:


"So I think I could ask and answer a few questions this way..."

"Does God ever contradict the will of a man? Yes"

"Does man ever have the power to delay or alter God's plans? Yes"

Your answers are based on foreknowledge, and the fact that God has given man free will. The free will that has been given to believers, is in hopes that they will aligned themselves with the plans and purposes of God, and walk in the fear of the Lord. It is the Spirit of God that works in us both to will and to do. As long as you continue in "foreknowledge" you will forever reason with God..and in doing so, fulfill the purposes and plans in your life, that you yourself have chosen.

 2012/11/4 8:46Profile
Croref
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Joined: 2008/3/18
Posts: 334


 Re:

Re: God does not go against the will of man. Reply To This Post |

This business of God’ choosing particular individuals is a difficult thing to understand. On the face of it one could say that God chose all the men and women He has used. Some like Lot and David for example appear to show that God chose and did so knowing the heart and attitude of the man in question as well. So in choosing Lot . . .




Hi amrkelly!, Where can we read it that God chose Lot__for anything?


 2012/11/4 8:51Profile









 Re:

Quote:
Where can we read it that God chose Lot__for anything? croref



I wrote Lot but intended to write Job. But to answer your question Lot had every good reason to curse God because he lived in a filthy and Godless city which must have been a continuous grievous burden to Him. Yet he was found righteous. He was "chosen" to be saved from the city. Job is of course much simpler. God was confident in Him from the beginning.

 2012/11/4 8:56
Croref
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Joined: 2008/3/18
Posts: 334


 Re:

by arkp on 2012/11/4 5:46:16


"So I think I could ask and answer a few questions this way..."

"Does God ever contradict the will of a man? Yes"

"Does man ever have the power to delay or alter God's plans? Yes"

Your answers are based on foreknowledge, and the fact that God has given man free will. The free will that has been given to believers, is in hopes that they will aligned themselves with the plans and purposes of God, and walk in the fear of the Lord. It is the Spirit of God that works in us both to will and to do. As long as you continue in "foreknowledge" you will forever reason with God..and in doing so, fulfill the purposes and plans in your life, that you yourself have chosen.




. . . for which God will in either instance, work to/for His purposes. Did He not say He creates evil [mischief] for His purposes? __but never against "the will of one who sets his affections on things above"__that would hinder His relationship with them. "Lead us not into temptation", was the prayer of Jesus.

 2012/11/4 9:00Profile
Croref
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Joined: 2008/3/18
Posts: 334


 Re:

by amrkelly on 2012/11/4 5:56:51

Quote:
Where can we read it that God chose Lot__for anything? croref



I wrote Lot but intended to write Job. But to answer your question Lot had every good reason to curse God because he lived in a filthy and Godless city which must have been a continuous grievous burden to Him. Yet he was found righteous. He was "chosen" to be saved from the city. Job is of course much simpler. God was confident in Him from the beginning.


Though righteous, his will being set in God, Lot chose his "lot". God, by Abraham, rescued him because of it. Not only that but God cannot deny Himself__Himself being righteousness Lot exhibited from himself.__and it was not self righteousness that saved him.

re Job:

He was not chosen by God except for his righteousness, as one who could be trusted. Wasn't that so?

Seems like you agree with me that God does not go against man's will. Job's will was set in God, wasn't it? Would he have objected had he known be forehand? Did Abraham when required to offer Isaac? BTW, was anyone in all this, indwelt by the Holy Spirit, given special grace to perform as God could only hope for?

 2012/11/4 9:11Profile
jimp
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Joined: 2005/6/18
Posts: 1481


 Re:

hi, abram in fact disobeyed God when he brought lot with him.jimp away from thy fathers house and from thy kin...

 2012/11/4 9:19Profile
Croref
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 Re:

by jimp on 2012/11/4 6:19:13

hi, abram in fact disobeyed God when he brought lot with him.jimp away from thy fathers house and from thy kin...




Yes he did, didn't he?

Did God object, shake Abraham and say "Hey! I said just you!!?" No, God used it all.

Lets make this to apply to the issue of Ishmael as well. Did God stop him?

 2012/11/4 9:23Profile
proudpapa
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Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 Re:

none seek after God on their own the scripture is clear about this. Romans ,1John ,every where in the Bible is clear about this, But that Drawing is proclaimed to all Men after Christ went to the Cross.

Men are guilty because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

Man is guilty because of his ability not because of his inability !!!

Theolgy has made a mess of Chistianity!

 2012/11/4 9:32Profile





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