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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Were the disciples born again before or after Pentecost?

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 Re:

In conclusion to a wonderful and thought provoking thread, I will leave this subject alone.

To those that believe they are born again without the baptism of the Holy Spirit, I say, Praise the Lord Brother and Sister and would encourage everyone not to stop at water baptism but to move forward in seeking the Baptism of the Holy Spirit and be open to what the bible says concerning it and forsake what others around you are saying it's not necessary for us today.

If we have the mindset of "If God wants me to have it, He'll let me know". With that mind, it will never happen.

Luke 11:13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ASK Him?

If we don't ask, we don't get.

 2012/11/1 16:38
Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3700
Ca.

 Re:

All I can say is, I did not ask to be in Christ before the foundation of the world, but I am and He in me and blessed by His promise of the Holy Spirit of which I had no part in. It is all of Him and none of me. He must grow stronger I must decrease.

John 3:31-33 He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all. And what he hath seen and heard, that he testifieth; and no man receiveth his testimony. He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that God is true.

In Christ: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2012/11/1 17:44Profile
jimp
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Joined: 2005/6/18
Posts: 1481


 Re:

hi phillip, wow, great post.jimp

 2012/11/1 21:36Profile









 Re:

Quote:
All I can say is, I did not ask to be in Christ

Neither did I, but the receiving of the Holy Spirit is something that we either desire or ask for. We must either be willing to receive without asking or be of the mind to ask. I've seen both occur in the person who is baptized in the Holy Ghost coming up from the watery grave and the sinner who repents at the altar and the person who seeks God diligently for the Baptism of the Spirit. But as for coming to Christ, I had no part to play. His Spirit wooed and I couldn't resist.

I wasn't going to respond to this thread, but when I saw Phils response I needed to clarify.

I am done..........I hope.

 2012/11/1 21:47









 Re: Were the disciples born again before or after Pentecost?

Quote:
Brothers and Sisters we may as well stop bothering with the subject of the Holy Spirit as a second work of grace, or the second blessing, nobody wants it. Everyone is settled with the fact that they have received the Holy Ghost at confession by faith. If that is the case, why seek for something more?

If I received the Holy Spirit when I repented and gave my life to Jesus, why should I bother looking for another Holy Ghost when I got the whole deal at the first?

Seems kind of stupid to me that I should seek for something that I already have. Approved.




Brother speaking about The Holy Spirit is to speak about the third person of God. More importantly it is God Himself who speaks about Himself. Firstly the Law and the prophets spoke about Jesus, then The Word (Jesus) speaks about the Father and then the Holy Spirit who is sent speaks about the Son (Christ). The Holy Spirit is not come to reveal Himself He is come to reveal Christ Jesus The Son of God and all the things that belong to Him. Knowing that you are born again and therefore have The Spirit of God doesn’t mean that one would need to adopt an attitude of speaking about The Holy Spirit “in power” or outpouring as “another” Holy Spirit. Psalm 23 “He anoints my head with oil and my cup runs over”. Jesus “whosoever comes unto me from his inner most parts shall flow rivers of living waters”. This thread was about being born again. Anyone who is born again should expect to know the outworking of eternal life (living waters) daily. Anyone who lacks this outworking can no doubt ask God as to why. If He anoints their head with oil (outpouring of The Holy Spirit) then they can overflow unto God and men. If they continue to overflow then they will never be empty again. A cup which overflows is always full! But first it must be a sacred vessel (cup).

 2012/11/2 6:42
Croref
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Joined: 2008/3/18
Posts: 334


 Re:

Amrkelly, Do you believe in any way, this passage might apply for "new birth" "indwelling"? For the "coming upon" of the Pentecostal Baptism? What?

". . . we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him". Acts 5:32 (KJV)


 2012/11/2 6:55Profile









 Re: Were the disciples born again before or after Pentecost?

Quote:
Do you believe in any way, this passage might apply for "new birth" "indwelling"? For the "coming upon" of the Pentecostal Baptism? What?

". . .


……we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him". Acts 5:32 (KJV) croref




The things of which Peter says "we were witnesses too” were the crucifixion of Christ and His being raised from the dead. This is what Peter says to the Senate of Israel in the passage you have referenced. Peter also says “and so is also the Holy Ghost” a witness of these things. In context Peter says in effect “it is The Holy Ghost who is given By God (The Father) to those who obey Him (The Father). As it was The Father who bore witness from Heaven twice regarding His Son, once at The Lord’ baptism and secondly at the Last Supper. I believe the “obedience” which Peter is speaking about here in the first instance is obedience in believing The Father. It is also Christ bearing witness of Him self by showing Himself to the apostles after His resurrection. The Holy Spirit is in this passage only given by God after obedience in believing God’ witness or Christ’ witness of Himself after He was raised from the dead and before He ascended into heaven. Today we are in a very different place to either the Apostles or the Senate of Israel. It is the Spirit speaking through those who preach Christ crucified for sin, Who rose for our justification that forms the basis for believing the witness of the Holy Spirit. This believing must produce repentance and result in newness of life. What happens after that is surly a matter for God and not a matter of opinion or even doctrine.

As a Jew I love Jewish jokes. My favourite one is “brother how many different doctrines are their about G-d? Ah brother how many Jews are there here!

It is good to have opinions its healthy and inevitable as God Himself doesn’t press on us anything more than what is necessary for life. Beyond that it is up to us to desire a more full knowledge of God and a more purposeful obedience. To that end many born again men and women have born witness to having received the outpouring of The Holy Ghost with power and have marvelled in their ability thereafter to serve God faithfully and more profitably. Hope this doesn’t create more confusion.

 2012/11/2 8:04
Croref
Member



Joined: 2008/3/18
Posts: 334


 Re:

by amrkelly on 2012/11/2 5:04:51


“it is The Holy Ghost who is given By God (The Father) to those who obey Him (The Father). As it was The Father who bore witness from Heaven twice regarding His Son, once at The Lord’ baptism and secondly at the Last Supper. . . . I believe the “obedience” which Peter is speaking about here in the first instance is obedience in believing The Father.

. . and does not the "giving" cease if obedience ceases?

 2012/11/2 9:11Profile









 Re:

Quote:
. . and does not the "giving" cease if obedience ceases? croref




No. God is not a man that he should change His mind. Nor are the gifts and the calling of God repented off. If you mean to ask if the outpouring of The Holy Spirit can be quenched or whether we can grieve Him then it is Yes.

The biggest single shock anyone is going to have in life is when they recognise that God is indeed God. The next biggest shock will be realising that despite this He is wonderful and full of goodness and kindness. The third will be that He is righteous. The fourth that He demands righteousness. The fifth that we are sinners. The sixth that we are completely lost. The seventh that we need Him completely. The eighth that He knew it and sent His son to die for us. The ninth will be that we believe Him. The tenth will be that we now know in our spirits that christ was crucified for sin and raised for our justification. We will then fall on our faces and declare My Lord and my God. He will then lift us from the floor and putting us on our two feet will declare My son.

It is not possible to stop believing God. Everything else is a matter of God's purposes in a mans life and a man's willingness to obey God in the leading of the Holy Ghost to live righteously so as to please God.

 2012/11/2 10:18
Croref
Member



Joined: 2008/3/18
Posts: 334


 Re:

by amrkelly on 2012/11/2 7:18:21

Quote:
. . and does not the "giving" cease if obedience ceases? croref




No. God is not a man that he should change His mind. Nor are the gifts and the calling of God repented off. If you mean to ask if the outpouring of The Holy Spirit can be quenched or whether we can grieve Him then it is Yes.

The biggest single shock anyone is going to have in life is when they recognise that God is indeed God. The next biggest shock will be realising that despite this He is wonderful and full of goodness and kindness. The third will be that He is righteous. The fourth that He demands righteousness. The fifth that we are sinners. The sixth that we are completely lost. The seventh that we need Him completely. The eighth that He knew it and sent His son to die for us. The ninth will be that we believe Him. The tenth will be that we now know in our spirits that christ was crucified for sin and raised for our justification. We will then fall on our faces and declare My Lord and my God. He will then lift us from the floor and putting us on our two feet will declare My son.

It is not possible to stop believing God. Everything else is a matter of God's purposes in a mans life and a man's willingness to obey God in the leading of the Holy Ghost to live righteously so as to please God.


Then how does this fit into that:

". . . as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, . . . " Romans 1:28 (KJV)

And this:

". . . .If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him." 1 John 2:15 (KJV)

Know any Christians of the "compromised" sort?



 2012/11/2 10:53Profile





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