| Re: Bronsville .....|
- "but in the case of Brownsville I think you have to be very careful about making such a statement. There WAS deep repentance and salvation during this time period down there." -
A short testimony: At that time (Brownsville) I attended a Church in Johannesburg, RSA. Mostly students with a few "older" believers as well. Though all seemed well, the Pastors wife (American) was burdened for the state of the Church, and went to Brownsville during a visit home, and was greatly ministered to. On her return she shared about her experience and while she was sharing something precious happened. People suddenly were on their faces repenting, weeping and being refreshed. I myself had a sudden revelation of my condition before God (I thought I was fine) and managed to straighten my course from where I had wandered, and like many others had a season of refreshing.
Unfortunately it all petered out in the end. Why? There were tares of unforgiveness towards white believers that sprung up and choked (wearied down) the work, and also something that is on my heart lately - the old wineskins were never replaced. You cannot put new wine into old wineskins.
| 2012/10/24 11:36||Profile|
| Re: |
Hi, I don't know if this helps but I got saved and filled with the spirit after repeating the sinners prayer.
I wanted Jesus in my life and I thought that was how you got him.
It was at an outdoor preach and someone asked me to repeat the prayer of asking Jesus into my life and asking him to forgive me. The devil immediately questioned what I had just prayed and I told him I didn't care what he was telling me I believed Jesus would come to me. Just then I received the spirit and was filled with an amazing joy.
I thoroughly appreciate your testimony, this is exactly what I said in this thread as well. We cannot generalize that sinner's payer is wrong. But the result of this prayer should be a strong realization deep into one's heart that you are forgiven and justified by the blood of lamb. This realization cannot come by conducting class to people. It is something that God who knows the intentions of your heart puts it into your heart.
Your testimony reminds me of the blind man in John chapter 9 who said that, I don't know whether Jesus is a sinner or Prophet, all I know is I was born blind and he made me see. What an amazing bold testimony it was.
| 2012/10/24 11:59||Profile|
Whittier CA USA
| Re: |
Again, for every testimony of people being saved through repeating the prayer there are countless more who were harmed and deceived by it. Yet many believers will resort to pragmatism(if it works, do it) to defend it instead of examining it in light of God's Word. The norm in the Bible is that the gospel was preached and the lost were exhorted to repent and believe in Christ. We see this over and over, not "repeat this prayer after me."
A huge problem I have with this formula is that it has become the standard of success for many when it comes to reaching the lost. If you get someone to say the prayer you are seen as having succeeded and if you don't get them to say it you didn't succeed. Yet biblically our job is to sow the seed of the gospel and leave the results of conversion with God. The sinner's prayer is used to manipulate the lost, to produce conversions in the arm of the flesh for the most part.
For a time I went door to door and it was fairly easy for me to get someone to repeat the prayer after me and then pronounce them saved. Yet afterward I found that these same people who repeated the prayer wanted nothing to do with God. I was responsible for manipulating and deceiving many people, which I deeply regret. The Lord had to open my eyes to this grave error.
| 2012/10/24 12:28||Profile|
| Re: |
Just for those who do not know this story-
The story goes that Charles Spurgeon, was walking down the street one day when a man who was drunk and leaning on a lamppost yelled out to him:
Hey, Mr. Spurgeon, do you remember me?
No, why should I?
Because I am one of your converts
Spurgeons response? - Well, you must be one of mine; youre certainly not one of the Lords.
| 2012/10/24 12:44||Profile|
| Re: Sinner's Prayer...|
"The greatest heresy in America today is the thought that if someone asks Jesus to come into his heart that He will definitely come in."
Simply because a man says a prayer to be saved does not mean that this man will be regenerated. How can I say this when Romans 10:9 seem to so clearly state the contrary? Simply because we don't know the heart of the one saying the prayer.
Say there is an unregenerate young man sitting in a church service, and his conscience begins to get active. The young man knows that he is living in sin and knows that his fate is Hell if he doesn't do something about it. He hears the minister says something wonderful however,
"If anyone will accept the Lord Jesus into his heart, he will be saved and go to Heaven to live forever rather than be separated form Him."
The altar call is given the young man immediately goes to the front to partake of this wonderful free pass from his punishment that is offered in Jesus Christ. He truly doesn't desire to go to Hell, so he thankfully walks to the front and repeats the words sincerely after the minister.
After the prayer the minister looks the young man in the eyes and says, "If you were sincere, you are now saved, and when Jesus comes back or you die, you will go to heaven with Him."
The young man leaves the church, and everyone is so thankful that there was salvation in the church that day, "Oh, how the Lord moved in our midst."
What however is the issue with this story? Consider this:
The young man did not see himself as an anarchist against God's just law, he simply saw that that his skin was going to be singed if he didn't do something about. The minister told him of a get out of jail free card, all he had to do was confess with his mouth that Jesus was Lord, and he would be saved. The young man leaves the church (possibly with the intention to live a little better and give up some bad habits), but has not been made a new creature. His mind has not been changed from "pleasing self" to "pleasing Christ." Yet he now has assurance, because he said a prayer, that if he lives a better life morally and comes to church pretty regular, he's been born again.
This young man may spend the next 50 years of his life sitting on a pew in church listening to sermons, but always believing that he is born again. When he feels the conviction of the Holy Spirit from a message, he brushes it off as the Devil attempting to bother him. The thought goes through his mind that he has already "said the prayer and gotten saved" there is no need to seek after a salvation he already has.
This is the danger of the sinner's prayer. Rather than a man coming to the minister to tell him that God has saved him, the minister tells the man that God has saved him, and he has no right whatsoever to do such a thing. Salvation is an issue between God and the sinner.
Preach the Gospel, explain how a man is to be saved, and tell him to go seek after God till He saves him. Be gracious and loving, pray for the man, but do not step in and do something that God alone has the right to do.
I don't say these things to be controversial... Only that we as ministers and servants for Christ might deal with the souls of men the way that Christ would have us to, which is to preach the gospel and give them to the Holy Spirit to convict and convert.
| 2012/10/24 19:52||Profile|
| Re: |
hi, did someone tell you to say a prayer so that you will not go to hell?is that the gospel message?the gospel is the cross with all the blood,the death while taking the Fathers wrath on Himself, thtaking captive those who died in faith, the resseurectionwhich demonstrated the total victory over sin ,death ,hell and the grave.the provision is there to be grasped if you make Jesus your Lord.the problem is not the sinners prayer at all. the problem is we do not make it clear that we are inviting people to come and die.jimp
| 2012/10/24 20:10||Profile|
| Re: The Gift of Salvation|
There is POWER in the BlOOD!
Jesus is the perfect Lamb of God, the Paschal Lamb whose blood, shed on a cross, washes away all sins of every person who accepts Jesus Atoning blood washes away all their sins - past, present, and future.
The only way we are saved is through accepting Jesus death on the cross as paying the penalty in full for all our sins. Jesus kept God's entire Mosaic Laws in our place.
Not having sinned, Jesus becomes the perfect Lamb of God One sacrifice of the LAMB OF GOD, for all time, His shed blood washes all our sins away forever, to all who accepts the blood that Jesus shed on the cross as atonement for all our sins: Past - Present - and Future. One Scarifice sin offering for all time, no need for another blood sacrifice of another perfect Lamb to wash away our sins for only another year.
The blood Jesus shed on the cross washes away all sins of all who accept this atoning blood of Jesus.
Upon His death, God annihilated the Mosaic Covenant, a covenant no human could ever keep, except the only begotten Son of God, who died on a cross on our behalf, that His righteousness is accounted to us Christians, who have accepted His atoning blood as washing away
Our part, we are to simply believe Him, enter into fellowship with Jesus ("he who abides in me I will abide in him"), upon which we receive the Holy Spirit, 'God in me', and we become a child of God. It is as if we are back in the Garden of Eden, through the indwelling Holy Spirit in us, God in us, whom works in us daily to change our very nature, that we may be transformed that we may naturally do the good God created us to do. It is through this sincere daily walk with God, Whom loves us dearly, that our nature becomes transformed to be a people who does the good that God created us to do. And Not by threats of punishment and rejection if we disobey, but by His wonderful love and mercy for us, His children.
What man can't do, God can do. We were too weak to save ourselves by obedience to the whole Mosaic Law. Upon Jesus death, God annihilated the Mosaic Covenant with its' 613 laws. A LAW no man could keep, except Jesus, God in the flesh.
What man can not do, Jesus did for us on the cross, a true gift of God to all who accept this wonderful gift.
This New Covenant we have in Jesus, wherein humans are not saved by the works of the Law, but as a gift of God to all who accept Jesus and believe in His finished work on the cross, we are saved by His faith, all our sins are forgiven for all time, and that we have indwelling the Holy Spirit, knowing that if we confess our sins, God will always forgive their sins, and HE will cleanse them from all unrighteousness.
What God says He will do in us, His children, it will get done.
A pretty good deal for us, heh!!
And all true Christians, regardless of denomination, believe that God's work in us will produce His good nature in us and the fruit of this will be shown in our good works that we will do naturally, having had our inner nature be changed from a spirit of rebellion to Godliness, God's work in us as we walk and rejoice in Him daily.
And we shall have eternal life, the promise of the abundant life partialy now, but mostly when God takes us to His Kingdom, a true gift from God to us through Jesus, and the indwelling Holy Spirit, God in us. Even now, I am at peace because what God has accomplished for us through the Finished work on the Cross By His only begotten Son Jesus, and the indwelling Holy Spirit.
This is longer than what I hoped it would be, and if I was somewhat redundant, forgive me.
| 2012/10/24 20:27||Profile|
| Re: |
Can someone please show me the "sinner's prayer" in the Bible. I thought the purpose of the reformation was to stick with Scripture? Why do we still promote this tradition?
Because God is not as picky as we are.
It's not the wording, it's the heart crying out saying 'save me'.
Carter Conlon has testified as saying the sinners prayer and look at where he is today.
It's where God meets you at, not how we say a sentence or form words together that are acceptable unto Him. God responds to faith, and if that faith reaches out with words that resemble the sinners prayer and he goes on walking with Jesus who are we to question them?
Paul speaking to certain disciples of John didn't ask how they became believers, he asked them if they had received the Holy Spirit after they believed. To Paul, it's whether you have His Spirit more importantly than how you came to Christ.
| 2012/10/24 22:01|
| Re: |
The question I should've asked: if someone prays the sinners prayer, are they saved?
| 2012/10/24 23:22||Profile|
| Re: |
if they just mouthed the words;no. but if they truly got the message of the cross;yes.jimp
| 2012/10/24 23:38||Profile|