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Sree
Member



Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1714


 Re:

I never said salvation is by work. Salvation is by faith alone . But that does not mean that I deceive my self that I am saved when I love living in Sin. Christianity is not a theory that cannot be lived. It is a life, Christ really saves us from the power of sin. Eternal life can be experienced on this earth, it is not something that starts only after death. If I say this practical aspect of Christianity why does that appear like work?

If someone is really interested in salvation he will search the truth further. For example Romans 10-13 says - Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved. Matthew 7 -21 is also true,
"Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter."


If a person is really interested in salvation he will not base it on one misquoted verse but will compare verse with another to understand the complete truth. Satan tried to deceive Jesus by misquoted verse from bible, same thing he does to today's so called Christians, but we can overcome only by quoting back scriptures like how Jesus did.

I think I made my point clear here, if I continue answering then it will only lead to more arguments. I am done posting in this thread.


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Sreeram

 2012/10/23 16:51Profile
stevet83
Member



Joined: 2012/9/9
Posts: 77


 Re:

Do you realize when someone is born again they're delivered from the power of sin? If a person continues to live in sin, it doesn't mean he took his will back, it means he wasn't born again

 2012/10/23 17:05Profile
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3396
This world is not my home anymore.

 Re: Sinner's Prayer...


I haven't read hardly any of the comments, so my comments are not pointed toward anyone, they are just my experience, praise His holy name!

Approximately nine months to a year BEFORE the Sunday the Lord spoke to me and I was “saved....” I had a conversation with Him where I stated off handedly that “I can give up drinking, cussing and smoking cigarettes but I wasn’t give up smoking pot because I loved it, I smoked it several times a day everyday and in my logic, I had to quit for me, not Him. Well, I totally forgot making that declaration and a week before Easter Sunday in 1978, I gave up smoking pot to “get my head together” and my friends were like, “You what? Why?” LOL

Then somehow I promised my granny I’d go to church with her that coming Easter (and the church was 45 minutes to her house and then 45 minutes to church from there!) I was sitting there in the back row when I audibly heard His voice, “You quit for you.” I even looked over my shoulder to make sure someone wasn’t there and He said it again, “You quit for you.” I started weeping b/c I knew it was Jesus and that I had a decision to make. We had what seemed like a five minute conversation in a nano-second; every problem I came up with not to get ‘saved’ was solved and finally I said to Him, “If this doesn’t work, I’m coming back.” And I felt this huge smile over me and peace flooded my soul.

I was converted in that seat that day; I walked out of there a new creature in Christ without going up front, without anyone leading me in a “prayer,” and like the old hymn goes, “What He’s done for me, He’ll do for you, it is no secret what God can do.”!!!

To God be all the Glory!
Lisa

PS: I've considered that requiring people say the ‘sinner’s prayer’ was more for the leader of the prayer and not the person getting saved. Too many can quote “numbers” that they've lead to the Lord through the sinner’s prayer (seemingly for their glory and not God’s).


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Lisa

 2012/10/23 17:45Profile
proudpapa
Member



Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 Re: TMK

Hi TMK

RE: TMK wrote
///But in all honesty, I dont see how we get around some sort of a "sinner's prayer" if someone is ready to repent and submit to the rule of Jesus Christ. From a purely theoretical standpoint, I believe that a person can be legitimately and fully "saved" w/o uttering a word, if they repent and submit themselves to Christ and begin evidencing fruits of the Spirit. However, from a practical standpoint, I believe that it is important for a person to make some sort of statement of faith, need and commitment.

Think about it, if we are sharing the gospel with someone and lo and behold they are convicted and want to turn their lives over to Jesus, what should we do? I think we should of course tell them what that means (count the cost)but I think ultimately they should say some sort of a prayer. What exactly form that prayer may take will vary, but God knows the intent and the heart///

The Biblical statement of faith or outward expression of what has happened inward is Baptism. But the church has gotten so afraid that some might trust in the Baptism rather than Jesus that they have replaced it With other outward expressions in which the same result often happens, Probably more so, they trust in what they have done rather than in Jesus. We should go back to Baptism on conversion. (not regenerational baptism)

As the inspired scriptures declare in order

Acts ch 8
36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?

37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.

verse 37 is very important if it is missing it confuses everything.

 2012/10/23 23:16Profile
Oracio
Member



Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 2039
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

Quote:
hi, the church that i am associated with baptizes an average of 50 plus per week in a separate service after a class on baptism and how it shows the picture of what is really happening in the new believers life.we have thousands of home groups and a youth program where 7000 students meet every week.; dont tell me what somebody said . i seeGod moving in power in my area.jimp



Brother, after prayerful consideration of your church's website(checking out some of it's messages and things it stands for)I will post the following which I believe are some pros and cons. I do this hesitantly here, but I do it because this is a public discussion on a public forum where some things here have been posted for all to see.

Pros:

the leaders seem sincere in seeking after the Lord and praying for revival.

the leaders acknowledge great revivals of the past like the great awakening and seem to try to learn from them. I was encouraged and challenged in listening to some of their recent messages on past revivals.

they heavily encourage small groups.

there is some good Bible teaching coming from the pulpit in some areas.

Cons:

there is some mixture when it comes to understanding what true and false revival is. on the one hand they endorse the real revivals of the past but on the other hand they endorse false revivals of today such as toronto and brownsville.

there is exaggeration and hype in stating large exact numbers of how many people got born again in past revivals.

They recently gave a platform to a certain false prophet who is linked with word of faith false teachers.

They seem to have no concern for exhorting the Body of Christ to evangelize the US, they only encourage evangelizing or going on missions to other countries(that is the message that the main pastor gave in one of his sermons I heard).

The pastor acknowledged that most of the people who attended the church there are not really on fire for God but are only going through the motions of churchianity. he seemed very discontent with the lack of passion for God among church members there.

Brother, I will tell you this in love as a brother. Things are not always the way they seem to be outwardly. As long as they endorse a mixture of true and false revivals the Lord will not be pleased. I used to be deceived by a lot of the hype of the charismatic word of faith movement, and by large crusades that gave the appearance of many being saved. The Lord graciously set me free from much deception and He will do the same for any believer who is hungry for Him and His truth at all cost.

sincerely,
Oracio

if you would like to discuss any of these things privately I have my email on my profile.


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Oracio

 2012/10/24 1:53Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5389
NC, USA

 Re:

Oracio... not sure why you took it upon yourself to critique jimp's church, but oh well.

You wrote:

"on the other hand they endorse false revivals of today such as toronto and brownsville."

Shouldn't blanket statements like this be avoided? I know there were some serious issues with these revivals, but in the case of Brownsville I think you have to be very careful about making such a statement. There WAS deep repentance and salvation during this time period down there. Obviously there were some issues but that is likely true of every move of God because people are fleshly. The leaders would admit that some things got out of hand at times.

I have listened to many many sermons by some of the speakers associated with the Brownsville revival. If you would do the same, I think you would have a differing viewpoint. These men are not false.

For starters you might listen to "Holy Desperation" by Michael L. Brown, which was spoken during this revival, and which is available on this site along with many of his other sermons.

Perhaps you can provide us with your ten point critique of what is wrong with his message.


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Todd

 2012/10/24 10:08Profile
Oracio
Member



Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 2039
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

TMK, I am very familiar with that "revival" and believe it was clearly not a genuine revival that honored the Lord. It was similar to toronto in many ways. A lot of hype and weird manifistations. I have listened to messages from the person you mentioned and would consider him to be a brother, but would not recommend his ideas on revival at all. We will have to agree to disagree I suppose.


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Oracio

 2012/10/24 10:19Profile
Heydave
Member



Joined: 2008/4/12
Posts: 1306
Hampshire, UK

 Re:

TMK wrote "Oracio... not sure why you took it upon yourself to critique jimp's church, but oh well."

I think it is a fair thing to do if someone is claiming a church is moving in revival and seeing large numbers saved.

jimp claimed 50 people a week are being baptised at his church. Wow! 50 x 52 weeks = 2,600 folk a year! That is some number and would have a significant effect on the city after just a few years if they were all truly born of God. Has the crime stopped there? Have the bars closed down? Now if 2,600 folk said a prayer.... well! I just hope that the Pastor is careful who he baptises.


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Dave

 2012/10/24 11:02Profile
Oracio
Member



Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 2039
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

Quote:
Oracio... not sure why you took it upon yourself to critique jimp's church, but oh well.



I'll tell you why. I have noticed a trend over the years here on this forum. Many times when someone posts something regarding concerns they have with the state and practices of the modern church, the brother often tries to quench that concern. And he will make these claims that his church is experiencing a powerful revival and therefore those of us who voice our concerns are just doom and gloom preachers who don't see the positive side of things.

So I thought I would finally take it upon myself to do a little homework to see for myself if his big claims regarding his church are actually true. Unfortunately, the evidence seems to be what I suspected originally, that the claims were exaggerated and hyped up as has been the usual case with many sincere believers who have promoted false revivals and manifestations in the past.

So because I am thankful that someone took the time to share their concern about false revivals and and false conversions when I was caught up in a lot of this type of hype, I thought I should return the favor to others who may be in the same boat I was once in.


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Oracio

 2012/10/24 11:04Profile
davidkeel
Member



Joined: 2006/5/11
Posts: 421
West Sussex, England

 Re:

Hi, I don't know if this helps but I got saved and filled with the spirit after repeating the sinners prayer.

I wanted Jesus in my life and I thought that was how you got him.
It was at an outdoor preach and someone asked me to repeat the prayer of asking Jesus into my life and asking him to forgive me. The devil immediately questioned what I had just prayed and I told him I didn't care what he was telling me I believed Jesus would come to me. Just then I received the spirit and was filled with an amazing joy.


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David Keel

 2012/10/24 11:35Profile





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