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staff
Member



Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 1510


 PIGS HAVE NO SPIRIT!

Hi All,
I am going to follow up this subject from another thread as I think it is important in its own right.

Re: THE PIGS HAVE NO SPIRIT

In the passage below Jesus casts out demons into pigs.
Note one thing-THAT PIGS/ANIMALS HAVE NO SPIRIT!
That means that the Spirits must have been inhabiting the body of the Pig not the Spirit for that brief period of time.That then means that they also can inhabit the body not the Spirit of a person.They cannot inhabit the Spirit of a Person probably anyway whether it is Filled by the Holy Spirit or not whether the person is saved or not.

28 When he arrived at the other side in the region of the Gadarenes, two demon-possessed men coming from the tombs met him. They were so violent that no one could pass that way. 29 "What do you want with us, Son of God?" they shouted. "Have you come here to torture us before the appointed time?" 30 Some distance from them a large herd of pigs was feeding. 31 The demons begged Jesus, "If you drive us out, send us into the herd of pigs." 32 He said to them, "Go!" So they came out and went into the pigs, and the whole herd rushed down the steep bank into the lake and died in the water

Also later the men are seen to be sitting down in their RIGHT MIND which shows that the demons effected their mind.

I am sure like most Christians that Demons cannot inhabit the Spirit of a believer.So their is no need to talk about that I think.
However a demon can in some way latch on or have a hold on a believers mind or body.
Has the enemy pulled a fast one,in making believers think that we saved cannot have a demon?I think so.We have become toothless in this regard.
Sermonindex is about to have a conference on Persecution but what about all the christians that are being persecuted daily by demons.We have failed to provide correct teaching on this subject and in part I understand why.
The Con artist and the sham artist have been attracted to the money and power that healing and deliverance brings and have robbed the Church of ministry.We have looked at the show put on by these people and have distanced ourselves from them but in doing so the baby has been thrown out with the bathwater!Further more as a knock on effect we dont even cast out demons out of non believers anymore or to a lesser degree.We have been conned by the great con artist himself......

This post is not about a demon occupying a mans Spirit but about his body and mind!
Yours Staff

 2012/9/25 9:16Profile
stevet83
Member



Joined: 2012/9/9
Posts: 77


 Re: PIGS HAVE NO SPIRIT!

I'm going to quote you:
" I am sure like most Christians that Demons cannot inhabit the Spirit of a believer. So their is no need to talk about that I think."

Then your next sentence: "However a demon can in some way latch on or have a hold on a believers mind or body." yeah, so they can't possess us but they can latch on? I really don't think so.



I wasn't gonna touch this, the fact that no one else did was the red flag.
I believe in God. He is all knowing, nothing takes him by surprise. He Is everywhere at once, so you can look at it like He out numbers everyone. He is sovereign, nothing happens without His consent. He is all powerful, He alone posses power, if anyone else has it it's because He delegated it to them. Satan is real and so are demons, But they aren't like God. They are limited in what they can do. Not to mention God has already sealed their fate. It's important bro to keep your focus, keep your mind on God and His word, that'll build your faith and keep it strong.

 2012/9/27 11:18Profile









 Re: PIGS HAVE NO SPIRIT!

Quote:
Also later the men are seen to be sitting down in their RIGHT MIND which shows that the demons effected their mind.

I am sure like most Christians that Demons cannot inhabit the Spirit of a believer.So their is no need to talk about that I think.

However a demon can in some way latch on or have a hold on a believers mind or body.

Has the enemy pulled a fast one,in making believers think that we saved cannot have a demon?I think so.We have become toothless in this regard.

Sermonindex is about to have a conference on Persecution but what about all the christians that are being persecuted daily by demons.We have failed to provide correct teaching on this subject and in part I understand why.
The Con artist and the sham artist have been attracted to the money and power that healing and deliverance brings and have robbed the Church of ministry.We have looked at the show put on by these people and have distanced ourselves from them but in doing so the baby has been thrown out with the bathwater!Further more as a knock on effect we dont even cast out demons out of non believers anymore or to a lesser degree.We have been conned by the great con artist himself......staff



Brother I think your analogy is completely correct. Satan would very much like to have believers think that demons cannot influence those who believe. The term “latch on” is really very accurate in my own understanding from 28 years of experience in these things. Possession in contrast is a poor choice to use for believers because it suggests a controlling influence, just as the demoniac in the country of the Gerasenes was clearly out of control and therefore was controlled. Your distinction between the spirit and the soul is also useful in understanding this subject as well. I would say that the mind is the battle ground and can be oppressed; but it is the physical body itself which provides a more certain basis for demonic oppression and activity. It is a difficult subject simply because holding either view, that a believer can be possessed or that a believer cannot be possessed serves Satan well. The one view produces fear and can lead to a weakness of mind which will give ground where it is sought; and the second view rejects any influence whatsoever and makes for ignorance which gives cover to demons seeking an opportunity because the one being physically oppressed does not remedy it by prayer and if need be repentance.

The comments about some ministries which have made ruin of a sound understanding of this subject have indeed done a great deal of harm. It is only necessary to understand that these demons are simply dispossessed spirits which at one time in the past came under judgement of God for their part in a rebellion led by Satan. They are in truth nothing of themselves. We should in truth have no interest in them. We should also be wise in our understanding that they are in the world and God Himself permits it. To that end we can get on with our own walk and if we have any concerns we just have to ask The Lord Himself through prayer to deliver us and to show us why we were vulnerable to their influence. Sin will almost always be the basis, but fear also server them well. Clearly serving The Lord faithfully is going to deal with this problem because through obedience we perfect our love for the Lord and all men; thereby dealing with fear; and the same obedience will hinge always on ceasing from sin. The only thing to really consider is whether we are in some way deceiving ourselves and say we do not have sin, when in fact we do. Or we say "love" but show no mercy and give no alms and bear not our brother burden.

 2012/9/27 12:51
staff
Member



Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 1510


 Re:

Hi Steve,
When the demons left the demon possessed men into the pigs,the pigs then had the demons possessing them.But the pigs have no Spirit so we know that they effected the body and mind of the pigs.
The main reason that many Christians dont believe that a Christian can have a demon is that they say quite rightly "a demon and the Holy Spirit cannot inhabit the same place".
This scripture takes that reason away.
If you dont like my terminology thats ok but you cannot deny that the demons went into a body and mind that has no Spirit.
The demon cannot possess the Spirit but can the body and mind as seen in the pigs.
I would like you to comment on that.....
Demons are limited and we know those limitation as it is clearly stated in the bible but that is not the issue.The issue is can a demon possess a Christians body and Spirit.
By disecting the word of God correctly I am keeping my focus and mind on God and of course this scripture about the pigs is part of the WORD,
So Steve can a demon possess or latch on or inhabit a pigs body and mind?
Yours Staff

 2012/9/27 17:18Profile
stevet83
Member



Joined: 2012/9/9
Posts: 77


 Re:

"The term “latch on” is really very accurate in my own understanding from 28 years of experience in these thing"

"It is only necessary to understand that these demons are simply dispossessed spirits which at one time in the past came under judgement of God for their part in a rebellion led by Satan."

Since you so eloquently demonstrated your 28 yrs of experience, I'm sure you're able to demonstrate a little patience with my lack of experience and immaturity.
"...dispossessed spirits..." I thought they were angels? I thought the Bible says that God had cast Satan and a third of the angels in heaven out. That is why I'm confused with why you call them that? Demons, fallen angels, evil spirit. These words I am familiar with.
And what's up with this "latch on" stuff, cause I've never seen that in the Bible, I'm sure you can just give me the address so I can look it up myself. Thanks

 2012/9/27 17:47Profile
stevet83
Member



Joined: 2012/9/9
Posts: 77


 Re:

No they cannot. My reason is simple not much to dissect: the demons did not just go and posses these pigs, because, like I said they are limited beings created by God. Fact is, Jesus Christ, God Himself was the one who sent them to the pigs. I don't know why, the text doest say, but it's evident these demons knew their days were numbered, and Jesus had authority over them. Could have the demons possessed them on their own? Not without God allowing them. The only reason the demons were able to posses the pigs was because God told them to go there. I'm pretty sure they asked Jesus to send them to the pigs? Interesting, cause they wanted to go there but couldn't unless they were given permission. Hmm.
I will say straight out that I'm not worried about demons. Are they presently active in the world? Yes I believe that. In the end days there will arise doctrines taught by them. Am I worried about that? No, because I've been made alive by the power of God, delivered from the kingdom of darkness( have you ever heard of satan taking anything from God, that God didnt allow him to have? Says alot about the true nature of the power of satan and demons. Says alot more about Gods awsome power and authority.) Jesus said the gates of hell will not prevail against His church. He cant lie bro. I'm sorry if my lack of concern is offensive, but I'm confident that God will protect me, because He promised to.
Do I believe demons can posses a Christian? No, they don't have the power to.
Don't take what I'm saying out of context. I attribute all power, Glory, and Honor to the one supreme being in existance, God.

 2012/9/27 18:25Profile
staff
Member



Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 1510


 Re:

Hi Steve,
Whether they needed permission or not they did enter the pigs and possess them.The demons actually thought they were being judged early and didn't know when entering the pigs that their minutes were numbered.They only wanted to go into the pigs because the alternative was to wander in dry places.The fact that they could only go into the pigs with permission only shows their limitations and that they had no jurisdiction over the pigs unless given by Christ.We can give demons jurisdiction as well in areas usually to do with sin.We know they cant be transmitted from one person to another!
I am not worried about demons either but the scripture clearly shows that they occupy body and mind not Spirit.
How they do that is not shown.
The text does say that the demons entered the pigs and as we know a pig has no spirit so the demon must have occupied the body or the mind or both you even admitted that yourself.
Interestingly you say you were delivered from the kingdom of darkness but not all Christians have been yet fully.
One of great doctrines of demons is that "Christians cannot have demons no matter what terminology you want to use". Really clever of Satan to come up with that one and its worse,so afraid(red flags) of the subject we have become we dont even cast out demons of unbelievers!anymore.We dont demonstrate his awesome power and authority,
Yours Staff

 2012/9/27 19:18Profile
stevet83
Member



Joined: 2012/9/9
Posts: 77


 Re:

Wow bro... Because Jesus sent demons into pigs who only have a mind and body, that teaches demons can enter
Christian's mind and body? That's a big jump.
If you think that I'm somehow trying to convince you to abandon what you believe about it, you're way in left field. I believe what I believe because im convinced that's what the bible says. Im sure you would say the same about what u believe. It's funny cause I'm still going to be with my Savior because He suffered the Fathers wrath for my sin. I don't know the spiritual secrets of the workings of demons. I only know what the Bible says, and what it says is said plainly, I don't have to read in between the lines.
U made an interesting statement about the Christian giving or opening himself up to demons because of sin in his life: I'll tell you, I'm a sinning sinner! I cant deny that, the Bible says it, my conscience confirms it, and experience proves it. Now if you were to tell me the only way I can be safe from the constant threat of demon attacks is to be sinless, that's a tall order, i hope you will be able to attain that, so you're not always wondering if what your saying, doing, or feeling is a demon you allowed to influence you. I'll tell you what though, I have a righteousness that allows me to be right with God and allows me to spend an eternity in heaven with my Savior. It isn't dependent on me doing anything. This righteousness cannot be gained by abstinence from acts of sin, or doing "good" things. It is a gift given to me by God Himself.
You do understand that this whole "can demons posses Christians?" is a disputable matter, don't you? Fact is, regardless of how we feel about this, Let God be true and every man a liar.
I do have to stand on one point: God is the one who saves, and He saves to the uttermost! He is not like us He will do what He says, He's faithful!

 2012/9/27 21:45Profile









 Re: PIGS HAVE NO SPIRIT!

Quote:
"The term “latch on” is really very accurate in my own understanding from 28 years of experience in these thing"

"It is only necessary to understand that these demons are simply dispossessed spirits which at one time in the past came under judgement of God for their part in a rebellion led by Satan."

Since you so eloquently demonstrated your 28 yrs of experience, I'm sure you're able to demonstrate a little patience with my lack of experience and immaturity.
"...dispossessed spirits..." I thought they were angels? I thought the Bible says that God had cast Satan and a third of the angels in heaven out. That is why I'm confused with why you call them that? Demons, fallen angels, evil spirit. These words I am familiar with.
And what's up with this "latch on" stuff, cause I've never seen that in the Bible, I'm sure you can just give me the address so I can look it up myself. Thanks. Steve83



Hello Brother Steve. Please accept my apologies for causing you offence by my reply to Staff. Well brother to be inexperienced in this area of knowledge is nothing requiring patience on my part. After all why would you need to have any experience of such a subject? On the other hand men perish without knowledge. Even then knowledge cannot of itself save anyone, unless it is the knowledge of Christ and God. So I suppose that having been delivered from darkness into the glorious light of Christ and the power of the Kingdom of God you are sufficiently well informed to walk.

My reply to Staff was of course a provocation which snare was set by your own hand. The “red flag” reference was the basis of it. What Staff shared previously and now more fully is really sound brother. It is a good way to understand demonic wickedness when speaking about those who are spirit born of Spirit. The subject is a difficult one and there are no simple Scriptural references to explain the origin and substance of demons, or else to explain the difference between that which is earth bound, natural and demonic; and that which is said to be principalities and powers of wickedness in heavenly places. This does not mean that this cannot be explained it simply means that it is probably unnecessary to explain it. The Lord Bless you brother.

 2012/9/27 23:21









 Re:

1 John 5:18 says that the one born of God keeps him safe and the evil one cannot harm him. Other translations say the evil one cannot touch him. Thus any child of God cannot be latched on or inhabited by demons.

Bearmaster.

 2012/9/28 0:28





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