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 Re: You seek for prophets!

Quote:
Brother, Andrew you always touch my spirit with your words. Clearly u have somewhat of a handle on the spiritual man that we need in this hour. Thank you for your inspiring comments. gators52



Thank you for your encouragement. It is a blessing to me.

 2012/8/4 16:15









 Re: You seek for prophets!

Quote:
a good message that I read from brother Leonard Ravenhill. I hope that it encourages you as much as it encourages me. Christopher



I did enjoy the message from Leonard. I very much agree that really exceptional needs must be met by really exceptional men. Though only because God has made it so. It can't be faked. In the end my hope and faith is that God will do it. He will remain faithful to the end.

 2012/8/4 16:23









 How can the prophet function?..They may...but mostly outside the camp?

I think that the New Testament doctrine of prophets being a part of the body was a usual as the Pastors role in the Church. It is the Supernatural aspect of the prophet; the revelatory nature of his ministry, that is generally rejected, because the larger body of Christ does not operate in a walk by the Spirit.[ The Spiritual walk is Supernatural by definition. ]

There is a perfectly good side to this; we must judge; discern what is of God and what is not, or we could believe a lie, and be damned. It appears that this one done regularly in the New Testament churches as common practice:

"But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.

Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.

If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace."

For one thing, the acceptance of prophets to prophesy would by nature, annihilate the Priest Class mentality of the Pastor class dominating and controlling the "SERVICE"; ie: the "PULPIT DRIVEN" ceremony of the "message", the "offering and tithe" and the salute.

To actually accept the prophet, would throw a monkey wrench into the whole rule of order! You know, like the one on the church [ or conference ] bulletin that is handed out when you arrive at the building.

Also, if prophets were accepted and used by God, they by nature would have a handle above the Pastor, as per Ephesians 4..1st Apostles, 2nd, Prophets...

This is entirely unacceptable in their eyes, and cannot happen, lest the Priest-class crowd be forced to give up their means of making a living: IE, living upon the backs of the church, as the Professional Class. [ all anointed, of course.]

This is really why so many bristle at this thought, is it not? I agree that there is much more opportunity for error, and deception, in the accepting of the prophetic; but let me remind you, they expected to be judged, and were, intensely.

The second misconception about them, is that they are above the common thread of saints. They were, and are not; they are as common as your little sister; they are just people, who are given a gift from God, for your blessing.


Let me share a dream I had:

"A Gift From SOMEONE else, TO someone else."....A prophetic Call..[ many years ago..]

I went into a vision/dream. In it I was standing alone, dressed in the most common clothing; very non-descript and common. I held in my hand a roll, like a magazine or newspaper, and it was wrapped in vanilla wrapping paper, like you would see in a common paper sack at the grocery store.


The contents of the roll I held were not common however. There was a glory and light emanating from what I held; very bright with gold and diamond streams shining out.


Suddenly, fifteen or twenty people surrounded me and they grabbed the scroll from me, and ripped off the manila covering, and an explosion of glory occurred, as God's glory exploded throughout them. They were overcome with joy, shouting and dancing, and they just ran away in their bliss.


Bewildered, I said outloud; "Golly! Not even a thank-you!"...


And the Lord spoke to me from up above, in a very kind Voice;


"A GIFT FROM SOMEONE ELSE, TO SOMEONE ELSE!"
........................................................................dream ended.........


I understood my status more clearly. I have been given many Words from the Lord over 40 years, in my calling as a seer/prophet. In the end, however, I am as common as they come, and a no-body. God chose me against my will, and gifted me, but not that I am anything unto myself. I carry a gift for others; Primarily the Holy Redeemed Church of Jesus of Nazareth; the Crucified and Risen ONE!.......GOD ALMIGHTY!


There is no reward in this ministry whatsoever from men; Just the opposite. Mostly I am hated and despised and rejected; it comes with the territory. I cannot lay it down. It is with me until the day of my death, and may in one sense be the most miserable of gifts.

Wrapped in it is unimaginable warfare; real combat with the most powerful of devils and sorcerers that serve them. Terminal loneliness is always crouching on my doorstep, as is the satanic nature that I am also, so wicked, warring constantly for me to submit to it in unholy corruption.


The gift is about carrying His Heart above all, and MERCY and COMPASSION and LOVE.....while wielding real Heavenly authority to tear down the rule of wicked princes who rule Nations and territories above.


I have been shown the future in realms of glory to the church, and judgment to the church, and to America. I know there is a Remnant that will stand in this country to see Jesus return, and before He returns, she will dwell so close to Him in awesome maturity, that whoever touches this Holy remnant Bride, will be touching Jesus Himself!...The same way as He dwelt in the Pillar of Fire following the desert Bride of Moses' day.


Miraculous provision will be brought to her, and she will do exploits, and armies will fear her. There will be an AMERICAN BAND OF MARTYRS that will chose to GO to eminent slaughter to many nations to preach Jesus where they will surely die, yet there will be endless volunteers that will take there place, no matter the cost of their mere lives.


We will see the END OF THE AMERICAN DREAM with a total collapse of the economy, as I was shown in 2003, with an audible Word from the Lord saying "A Mortgage Greed Crisis " AS THE CAUSE......with Millions Homeless without hope.....and multitudes of Blacks and minorities RIOT ANGRY!


There will emerge the holiest company of men and women, filled with Jesus, that America has ever seen. These will be a true Apostolic company, that will emit real Glory throughout the Land, and out of these, REAL REVIVAL will flow, and it shall be unto the least of the Brethren, whoever he or she could be.

There will arise real and true American apostles of God, who will possess authority unseen before. They will manifest ALL authority over the ENEMIES of GOD, and terrify them, and exercise this power within the church, as champions of the poor and meek, and will be no respecter of persons. They will honor every blood washed child equally, with equal love, as Jesus always does.

True Churches will spring up following their preaching, as they walk among the poor as Ambassadors of Jesus Himself, with healing power, and casting out devils; right here in America. The Pharisee/Nicolaitan One-man-glory show ends when they arrive, along with the professional ministry crowd, who make their living off of the back of the church. They will refuse money and salary, and reinstate the plural, unpaid ministry Pastors, as it was in the beginning.


It will be a time without money, and hardship, but a time when glory abounds as Jesus keeps His Promises. There will be an invading army strike, and invade America after defeating her. 100 million + will die in this war, on American soil. God is in control.

This is the final judgment on America, as she has Prostituted herself unto Babylon, and her four great sins:

1. Murder: 60 million innocent children slaughtered.


2 . Sorcery and drugs: Rampant witchcraft and an America high on prescription and illegal dopa.


3. Theft: Business is taught to prey upon all, to extract more profit, no matter what. GREED. "The Banking Spirit." It is an epidemic in America.


4. Fornication and Immorality: Sextexts of 12 year olds, Lady Ga-Ga-, Madonna, "boyfriends" and "girlfriends"= sex-teddy bears, Homosexual marriages, congressmen and women, Presidential endorsement of all sodomy, Pornography covering the planet Earth, TV nudity, Movies "R" now "X"...etc.


For these four sins, we will cease to be a nation, with every American base annihilated, along with most of our major cities, and our entire National defense forces .


Then, after a short time, we will be invaded, and occupied. I stood on the reeds around the Texas/Louisiana coast, and heard a might Army marching; thunderous cadence approaching, with the ground pounding, and there, out of the Sea they came, dark haired many, with weapons and light packs...multitudes...and the Lord Spoke "20 MILLION!"


It will be the worst of times, yet the best of times. Jesus is bringing the blessing, and with it the other side of the Sword of the Lord; the Curse. Choose this day who you will serve, and give your whole heart to your Master.

I am a nobody, really, but I have seen and heard. One of the standards, of the prophetic, as I see it, is that they must never control or manipulate others because or out of the gift. We must realize that they are just men, weak and frail, just like you, and imperfect...and in the End, the Word of God trumps their word.

They are like little flashlights for the body, as the church travels through time; just reflections of the Bigger light for a season as they live and die; a gift for the mortal church. There will be no prophets in Heaven, and they can never attain to the status as the Holy Apostles and Prophets of old, who were used to frame the Word of God itself.

They are sinners too, like me, who cry out;

" But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

"Oh! wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?!!"

I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin."

and just like you....it is simply a gift embedded in frailty, that God chose.

"For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:

But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are."

And it is interesting to me, that religious people, the Priest-Class crowd, that earn their living off of the church, are the ones that hate me the most.




 2012/8/9 12:20









 Re: How can the prophet function?..They may...but mostly outside the camp?

Quote:
Also, if prophets were accepted and used by God, they by nature would have a handle above the Pastor, as per Ephesians 4..1st Apostles, 2nd, Prophets...

This is entirely unacceptable in their eyes, and cannot happen, lest the Priest-class crowd be forced to give up their means of making a living: IE, living upon the backs of the church, as the Professional Class. [ all anointed, of course.]

This is really why so many bristle at this thought, is it not? I agree that there is much more opportunity for error, and deception, in the accepting of the prophetic; but let me remind you, they expected to be judged, and were, intensely. Tom




This hits the nail right on the head Tom. I have seen pastors resist all prophetic insight to the point of holding prophets in complete contempt. As a result the prophetic man has to learn to walk "outside" the church as well as be subject to the authority of elders and the elder pastor. One thing which I have come to believe very strongly is that prophets should never hold governmental authority in the church. In short they should never be elders as well. The very nature of the ministry of the prophet must be proven by God Himself. To that extent what prophets say and expose or else reveal is either fully rejected or else fully accepted. This seems to cut right to the heart of that calling. Rejection is something a prophet had better get used to. At the same time he had better learn to walk with genuine humility. Or else when God does establish his words he will stumble and cause many to stumble with him as well.


Some pastors are open to the prophetic man, but only when they agree with them. Others seeing the insight they have actually hate them because of it. The poor pastor is always getting used and abused, he struggles with difficult men and women, he wrestles with sin and unrighteousness in the flock, he is lied to and deceived by falsehood in those who will not repent and take up their cross. He labours this way for the love of Jesus and a desire to feed the sheep. The prophet on the other hand sees much, knows much, can rebuke a falsehood in an instant, he can discern the motives of men's hearts and all because he covets God's own righteousness as though it were his own. So the pastor feeds the sheep and the prophet keeps the sheep. It can never be one or the other it is always both.


There was a pastor once who for very real and difficult reasons came to draw back from pastoring. He simply didn't know how to deal with the condition of the flock he pastored. Having spent some days seeking to encourage him I eventually explained that he had only to look for those who were given as a prophet in his church and encourage them to function. As I was sharing I received a wonderful picture of the nature and relationship of prophet and pastor and how they complement and support one another in the ministry. I saw a high cliff face or rock wall made of black stone. In amongst the solid stone I could see many beautiful and precious stones. I spoke to the black stone and it was smashed down into thousands of pieces. At first I was concerned, but them I saw a pastor walking through the shards picking up the precious stones. There was a great effect and outcome. This seems to me to express the visible and spiritual relationship between prophets and pastors.

Nevertheless no prophet should ever be given governmental authority over the flock. The prophetic man should only exercise spiritual authority. Whereas the pastor who also has spiritual authority may also become an elder. In this way he may become an elder pastor. Spiritual authority has its order of effects but governmental authority is always a matter of government. So I believe.

 2012/8/11 12:55









 Re: You seek for prophets!

In conclusion of this thread I am posting the following article. I truly pray that it speaks to those on SI who are still wondering about the real and difficult issue of false prophets. My sincere hope is that the true prophets of God in the New Testament church where ever they may be learn how to resist the mistakes of the past as well as the shallowness of this day. Also that whosoever has rejected God's provision for the body will realise that their is such a thing as true, not only in the prophetic ministry, but in the teaching ministry also, and that saints will learn to both test and learn from those who are given in the ministry of The Word and not reject God's gifts in the local church. No internet prophet can harm anyone. If we ourselves are not inclined to being faithless then we cannot be deceived. Going after men is faithless because we should always Go after God Himself. No true minister of the Word will ever seek to turn God's children away from the Father in heaven. Yet many have and many will continue to do so.




Although some people say that they do not seek for prophets the reality is that many people do. It is the very nature of the flesh or the natural mind to seek after those who are able to speak well and with their speech draw people into an understanding which may be sound in content, but may also be subtle and divisive. Whilst this idea is of no great substance it is nevertheless very real. Much more real than this idea is the experience of being born again and the reality of the position it places believers in if they do not hold fast to the Scriptures. When a person is born again there is a godly desire to be with other believers. Not only does this become real and tangible to the individual believer, but the individual themselves, by their confession of faith become real and tangible to others. When a person is saved at least two real outcomes begin to work in and through believers. The one is an expression of their “first love” of the Lord Jesus Himself which is something truly wonderful to witness. This initial condition will keep the new believer even as Christ Himself can keep them by the Holy Spirit. The other outcome working in believers is a need to be received by other saints. The one brings you into a life relationship with God through Christ Jesus and the other into an expression of a life relationship with other saints through Christ Jesus. The one is the Head, even Christ and the other is the body, even the brethren.

What you cannot understand at that moment of conversion is the risk which comes with the reality. As far as the Lord is concerned there is no risk at all. In fact at that moment of believing you receive to yourself everything which pertains to eternal life. Yet all that which you receive is in Christ Himself and your possession of this treasure is in your spirit as “Christ in you the hope of glory.” Even though by believing you have received the gift of eternal life, this gift is Christ Himself. Salvation is not simply a matter of your possessing the gift of life in your own spirit; it is more profoundly the same as being possessed of Christ Himself. Your mind and your body do not possess this treasure of eternal life. It is a spiritual possession and will always be a spiritual possession. The mind cannot be born again. It must be renewed. And the body itself still has the law of sin and death working in it. The power of sin in the body needs to be taken account of so that you can guard against sin. Whilst understanding that it is needful to take account of the law of sin and death working in the body, as well as the need to be renewed in your thinking, it is likely that your first love of the Lord Himself will keep you from harm in this short season of time. Your focus at this time is on Christ Himself, and even with regard to other believers, what you see is Christ in them. It is a profound and wonderful season. However unless you are taught to continue in your reliance on Christ Himself, and taught the importance of taking account of your physical body with its lusts and desires, you will soon begin to find yourself looking to yourself as you realise the struggle which is now going on in your body and mind. The struggle is nothing less than The Holy Spirit waging war against the members of your body so that you will not do the things which your fleshy mind and body are naturally inclined to do. Yet this struggle is just one reality which you will become aware of. You will also become aware of the sin itself. This awareness if it is not made sense of will lead you to look into yourself and take your eyes of Christ.

This moment is your most vulnerable moment. Not only are you aware of your own sin, but you are more vulnerable to deception than at any other time in your life hither too. It is only possible to become vulnerable to deception after you have received the Truth. Before that you were not vulnerable to deception you were in fact deceived. More than this vulnerability there is also another more difficult problem of needing to be taught those things which will turn your gaze back to Christ Himself and away from your own self. The conviction of sin and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit ought to be sufficient. After all The Holy Spirit has come to lead us into all Truth. There is though no escaping the fact that every believer needs to be taught to walk by faith. We cannot teach ourselves. We may read the Scriptures and we may well begin to understand that we need to confess our sins. Or that we need to walk in the light. But what if someone says, follow me! What can you do when the man who says follow me is the pastor. Or perhaps a prophet or in fact regardless of what he is, but is just a man? What if this man is a wolf and is no believer at all? But is come into the flock to comprehend your liberty so that he can once again bring you into bondage of the flesh; a place where there is no liberty at all. How will you know that he is a wolf after he has seduced you? The reality is that this is not a fiction, nor an exaggeration. As a young believer or unlearned you are not able to make distinctions of this kind. Unless God Himself purposes to keep you from harm to the extent that He sets aside the prophets and the pastors and teachers and the wolf is destroyed, you may encounter all of these men yourself. This may well be what some saints have come to believe. That God by some means or other will set aside the ministry of the Word of God in the body and at the same time drive the wolf from our midst. That once again we will become brethren, Philadelphia the church of brotherly love. A time when we will be no longer Laodicea, the church of individuality, boastings and riches! Rather the church of the apostles where equality is sought and desired and no one lies against the Holy Spirit except that they shall taste death in the presence of the brethren.

Well one would have to say that if the Scriptures taught that God is building the church Himself without labourers, we would be able to take our place in the faithful wait on God. We do not know what the church is! It has not yet been revealed because it has not yet been fully built. Yes God is building the church, and his tools are workmen. The church may well be a mystery but the workmen are flesh and blood. More than this we have a desire to be something more than a living temple, if we knew of it; we would also desire to be the Bride of Christ. The living temple of our God is the church, but the Bride of Christ is in the Church. The Groom is in heaven and will come to receive His bride at the appointed hour. Moreover the Bride must make herself ready. She cannot be forced to dress in readiness. She is not taken by force but must come in love for the Groom and in a willingness of submission and great hope. When the Bride has made herself ready then will the Groom come to gather his Bride from the church and to the marriage feast of the Lamb..

There is a dual responsibility for every saint of God and Christ. Firstly to labour according to God’s calling, secondly to dress in readiness. The labour is collective and distributed amongst the many according to God’s own distribution and determination. The dressing in readiness is personal and carried out in secret, which is to say in the heart. It is not possible to put aside the ministry of God’s Word any more than it would be wise to refuse to dress in readiness. Neither will the labourers be put aside nor will God compel anyone to dress in readiness. Unfaithfulness of either the labourer or the member will not pass without consequence or cost. The greatest responsibility in the body of Christ lies with those who are given as men to the body in the ministry of the Word of God. Many of these men will continue in their greed and unfaithfulness right until the end of this age. Only persecution will sift them. And even then some will deny Christ rather than obey. They will not go away however and so we have to know how to walk ourselves and at the same time trust in God’s choosing of His labourers for the purpose of the building of His house. Of these labourers no one is more equipped to cause stumbling than the prophet. Not a fake prophet, but a false prophet. One who turns God’s people away from God! God Himself will permit it and by it will sift the hearts of men so that in the end those who love truth will become the visible church and those who are become faithless will believe the lie and fall away.

 2012/8/14 18:54
brothagary
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Joined: 2011/10/23
Posts: 1863


 Re:

wise words andrew

 2012/8/15 6:04Profile









 Re: You seek for prophets!

Dear Brother Andrew - here I am for the 2nd time on your thread. I'll tell you why. My closest friend of many yrs called today and was talking about a sermon she just listened to by Keith Daniel, where he tells of how The LORD led him to a certain house and he persisted to knock on the door and his wife was a bit on edge about it, because neither knew who lived there - but Brother Daniel persisted and rather loudly banging and finally went to the window and started to yell into the window, something like "Jeuss Loves you, no matter what you're going through" [something like that] and as it turned out, the woman inside that wouldn't answer the door, was about to commit suicide. He talked with her and gave his phone # and all.
I may not have the details down perfectly - but this thread came to mind.
Most of us would think - "Well, That's Keith Daniel - I'm not like him and GOD can't use me that way."

Brother - if you wouldn't mind - I feel to Repost what I was trying to say earlier in this thread, because it's heavy on my heart that, YES, GOD CAN USE US ALL THIS WAY and from what I know from what I've seen in regular folks - this 'is' supposed to be the normal-Christian life.
I just get tears when I think that some feel that GOD can't use them in this way. He Does speak to His Children and can give them a check in their spirit, when something isn't right, or what to do next, etc..

I just felt we all need to know this - despite my lack.

Modified repost:

If there were any message on earth that The Body of Christ needs to hear, it's to Know His Voice Yourself!

Consecrate yourself unto The LORD in Holiness, as Brother Keith Daniel preached in his message "Be Ye Holy, for I Am Holy" and then with child-like humility - knowing "without Him, you can do Nothing" - then just trust Him to be able to practice John 16:13 - to hear GOD for oneself - that He will "even show you [personally] things to come."
THAT's a Promise to ALL of His Sheep and as Paul wrote - "pray that ye may be able to prophesy."

The "prophet-class" has become just like the "priest-class" that we all complain about.

From all that I've seen since being in the Church - the few true prophets are out-numbered 1000 to 1 -- and whenever GOD does 'send' a true prophet - 700 false ones come right behind them and undoes whatever the true speaks. And that's a fact.

I believe the Sheep need to be empowered in their personal walks with GOD. To stay humbled before the Face of their GOD and then believe Him for John 16:13,14 as a very small child would trust a Good Father's word to them and trust that after that - ANY child of GOD can "prophesy" -- can speak the need of the hour and can see & tell "of things to Come."

His Sheep are buried in prayer and His Word - ever seeking HIS Face --- the True Shepherd.

When they find themselves all alone in the world, they won't fear because they Know their Shepherd's Voice and that He'll lead them completely.

Those that "seek prophets" etc - will not be able to stand alone during trials and persecutions, because they've depended on 'human beings' during their Christian life and not His Word and His Spirit of Truth to guide them into All Truth and Even Show Them things to come - because they haven't trusted Him and His Word strongly enough in order to KNOW HIS VOICE - follow HIM Alone and "not follow another". John 10. [ie - like Keith Daniel did]


Our first obligation is - To Seek GOD, and the Mind of Christ, through prayer, fasting and His Word. All of us.


eta - I believe in these coming days, that those that realize that it's all of Him and not of us - that as Daniel said - they'll be used in ways that will save lives ["do exploits" and "win many to righteousness"] - regardless whether they have a title of prophet or not and the prophets will empower the Saints with that confidence in GOD and not in themselves.



His Love to you & yours always.

 2012/8/16 16:57









 Re: You seek for prophets!

Quote:
I feel to Repost what I was trying to say earlier in this thread, because it's heavy on my heart that, YES, GOD CAN USE US ALL THIS WAY and from what I know from what I've seen in regular folks - this 'is' supposed to be the normal-Christian life. Anne.



Anne there is nothing in what you have shared which I don’t agree with. But this is not about you or me. It is precisely about God’s will and purposes for all men, but especially concerning those who take the name of the Lord. You obviously are concerned that by drawing attention to the prophetic ministry this will somehow denigrate or detract from the centrality of what’s on your heart, as well as others hearts no doubt. To be more precise you are concerned that if someone comes along and draws the hearts of saints away from something which is of such importance to you, as well as many others also, this will prove harmful. The single issue lies in my persistence in giving some substance to the idea that there is such a thing as a prophetic man, and that these men have a distinctive and authoritative responsibility to the body of Christ.

This thread should give anyone with an ounce of understanding a sense of the danger these men represent. It would be possible to account many instances of the type which are normally pegged as “only of some men” which would readily demonstrate that there are such men as I am asserting, both true and false, who have both a biological inheritance as well as, in some instances a calling of God in their lives. Those who have a biological inheritance only are often unaware of what abides in their natural estate. Some of them however, know very well what they have and exercise their ability to influence other people with considerable consequences. These are sorcerers and diviners and lovers of money. If such men only limited their activities to making money they would be reasonably harmless. They would be just greedy clever men. You have referred in your posts recently to the House of the Red Shield. These are more than simple money makers they are vehicles for Satan himself and they have no idea of it because they are deceived and do not know God at all. They do not know anything of the reality of Satan either. There are some who go much further than just making money and ignorantly serving Satan. They actively practice wickedness arising out of a rejection of God Himself. Men who shake their fist at God and yet who then see an entrance into the flocks of God having rejected salvation. These men are wolves. There are also men who are driven into the same madness which is in Satan and desiring to serve him for what they foolishly believe is power given them, neglect to see that their power resides in themselves and Satan is just using them for his own ends. These either kill themselves or are driven literally mad with fear and terror because they go beyond what they are capable of rationalising. These men are political sorcerers and occultists who labour in secret but have open ambitions. Then there are those who are called of God to the prophetic ministry who are able to withstand all of these men both in the spirit and face to face. Yet the same as these if they walk in the imagination of their own hearts will harm the flocks of God as well. The difference for these men is simply that they can never escape the knowledge of God’s sovereignty and know that if they do not serve God they will be judged unto death by God’s determination. To these men death is a thing to be embraced and even desired.

The reality which you are speaking of Anne is something which is lovely and precious. The thing I am speaking of is diabolical and almost beyond comprehension, because it speaks about wickedness and evil. All that goes on in this world is permitted by God. Not desired by God, but most definitely permitted. In this sense even Satan is just an instrument in the hand of God for His own purposes. The “normal Christian life” you speak off is desirable and necessary precisely because of the wickedness which is in this world and in the hearts of men. The only saints which God has directly purposed to keep from these evil men are the ones who have a heart to please God, because these yield themselves continuously to God and childishly run to Him daily.

That which is being spoken of now concerns this present time, not some prior season! It has to do with this day but more especially the troubles which are coming on the whole world. We should not fear this day or the things to come, but we will only be able to stand as individuals if we have learned to be childish and simple in our attitude towards the Father in heaven. In the end those who are of that mind will be taken out of this world to safety and the confidence of the Lord. Many will be left and they are also God’s concern as well. It is these saints which need to be encouraged and comforted in a day of blackest darkness. For unbelieving men going from wickedness to wickedness that day will seem as a day of light, but to those who cannot receive that day to themselves it will be as a terror. Yet God will not forsake them nor leave them without shepherds to comfort them. They will be comforted and those who will be called to do the comforting are they that are willing and called to remain for that day. No title or conceit will prove sufficient for that calling so it seems to me that pressing for an understanding in others has more to do with encouraging saints in this hour to resist the prophetic man by seeking Christ Himself,. It has nothing to do with desiring to see a special class of men leading the church. It is not about leadership it is a matter of God’s calling and the responsibility it carries. Neither is it about recognition either. It seems to me unlikely that I am the only person who thinks like this. For that reason and realising that such a mind would have to be restrained through weakness I would expect that a number, perhaps even many rejected and wounded men in life will be trying to work this out as well.

For this reason I take exception to the continuous reference to prophetic wannabes and so on. It is hurtful to these men because they are already weakened in life by virtue of the way they have been treated from their childhoods. Those who have been so weakened are already fully aware and believe deeply that they are nothing in themselves. They will come from the filthiness of this life and have nothing to boast in. They will be ashamed of their former life and will ask God how it was that He allowed them to be treated so badly in their childhood. The Father will tell them that He wants them the way they are; weakened by the knowledge of their own sinfulness and the continuous rejection they have known from the beginning. They may well be making mistakes and acting foolishly and even full of pride at times and given to boastings, but if they belong to Christ they will not be best served in Him by degrading their desire to speak for God. It is offensive. They can’t do any harm on the Internet. But one day they may well walk in obedience and be found faithful and trustworthy in the local church, as well as at the end of this age. It is a calling to be worked out. They will have every reason to be more confident of the love of God than many and yet they will be more likely to doubt even the calling of God in their lives, sometimes even despairing of the possibility that they will not see God and will be rejected. The best of these men will be the ones who work out their salvation well enough to be of some real service to the body today. If they do not they will still be kept for that day of tribulation because The Father has purposed it. This is my faith and true, or else I am utterly deceived.

Every believer should seek to lay hold of and be laid hold of by God’s love, which love sent the Lord Jesus Christ to the tree and to death by the shedding of His blood. A love more precious than all of our natural affections even our own children, or how else did Abraham lay Isaac upon the rock and lift his hand so as to take his life in obedience to God? If every believer had such a mind of determination there would cease to be any distinctions among us, because we would see only Christ Himself and know nothing of ourselves at all. But to imagine that this is going to mysteriously appear is wrong. It will come through suffering primarily and even in that regard it will not include all believers. Many will still go through tribulation in order to be perfected unto God because they have rejected suffering and the cross and have preferred peace peace. For anyone reading this thread there is no comfort here, save for Christ Himself. Only a fool would wait until a day of tribulation to be gathered in.

 2012/8/16 22:07









 Re:

Quote:
For this reason I take exception to the continuous reference to prophetic wannabes and so on. It is hurtful to these men because they are already weakened in life by virtue of the way they have been treated from their childhoods. Those who have been so weakened are already fully aware and believe deeply that they are nothing in themselves. They will come from the filthiness of this life and have nothing to boast in. They will be ashamed of their former life and will ask God how it was that He allowed them to be treated so badly in their childhood. The Father will tell them that He wants them the way they are; weakened by the knowledge of their own sinfulness and the continuous rejection they have known from the beginning. They may well be making mistakes and acting foolishly and even full of pride at times and given to boastings, but if they belong to Christ they will not be best served in Him by degrading their desire to speak for God. It is offensive. They can’t do any harm on the Internet. But one day they may well walk in obedience and be found faithful and trustworthy in the local church, as well as at the end of this age. It is a calling to be worked out. They will have every reason to be more confident of the love of God than many and yet they will be more likely to doubt even the calling of God in their lives, sometimes even despairing of the possibility that they will not see God and will be rejected. The best of these men will be the ones who work out their salvation well enough to be of some real service to the body today. If they do not they will still be kept for that day of tribulation because The Father has purposed it. This is my faith and true, or else I am utterly deceived.



Dear Brother - you wrote a very long reply to mine and all that mine was saying is that His Sheep need more confidence in His Leading - as He speaks in John. His desire for His Sheep to walk in His Spirit and be protected in that way, in the days to come and be used in the same way that their LORD exampled for them while He was in our form.


Andrew - you probably haven't been around the internet that much to see the 600,000 "prophets" that are not and that are leading lambs to a state of total dependence on themselves and not directing them to HIS WORD and His Spirit to lead them personally.

I won't stop mentioning these "wannabes" because for some reason - The LORD always takes me to witness these circus shows all over the Net - without me trying to find any.
I know there's a reason that He has me to find these websites and the number of them is astronomical.

Now, as far as me saying that, affecting a TRUE Prophet - it should definitely not faze a true one in the least.

Jesus was called a DEVIL, a fatherless son and much more.

The True Prophets in our O.T. were called everything under the sun - rejected and finally KILLED by the very ones they were sent to save.

If a person's Security-in-Christ is dependent on being acknowledged as "a prophet" - I can guarantee you that, that person needs to find their Security in Christ alone and not a calling. They need to LOVE CHRIST EVEN IF GOD gave them No Gifts at All.
Their security MUST Be in HIM and not in their calling.
To put any 'holds' on a calling, is very dangerous to their spiritual health.

A prophet delivers a word, relays anything The LORD may give him/her and lets go of it. They've obeyed Him by delivering what the LORD had laid on them and they can go on to the next thing that The LORD leads them to - without "worrying" if their "word" is accepted or not or worrying that if their "word" isn't accepted - then they are not being "recognised as a prophet".

No, I can't agree with this paragraph above and if anything - a true prophet should expect to be spit on and questioned more than most and receive the bad end of the stick more times than not.
To be thrown in prison on just bread and water - etc. etc. etc. as our O.T. prophets were and looking for "recognition" as a prophet and questioning one's security in Christ if they aren't received as being a prophet by others is not healthy for the prophet nor the people he affects.

"Die to self" applies more to prophets than any others in His Body and why Paul needed that thorn in his flesh.
One Must see themselves as Absolute Equals to ALL in Christ's Body - regardless of their calling or the number of gifts that GOD has used them in.
Having one of the 5 callings of Eph 4 brings even the more responsibility to declare "The Body of Christ" is not a bunch of lone-rangers.
Have you read that book by Nee... "The Body of Christ: A Reality"?
If a prophet would speak of that one topic alone - and show His Saints that GOD intended for His "arms, legs, eyes, ears, hands, and even the less comely parts" to work as ONE - then the prophet has done his job - even without being acknowledged by the Body as being a prophet.

We need to be just Grateful that we're part of His Body at all and not care in the least if we're "seen as Anybody" but just another sheep - according to Eph 4 as well.


Our Security in HIM is not in our callings or gifts - but in the same Security that all of His Body enjoys together, that makes us equal with all that call upon His Name.
Our security comes in no other title but 'redeemed' and from there - we just do whatever He asks each of us, individually to do and work the work that He assigns without any desire for self- recognition.

It would be no different if a Teacher teaches truth and what he taught was not received. Would he yell out - "But I'M A TEACHER. You Must believe me." ?

If HE says tomorrow - "You're no longer needed as an Apostle, prophet, pastor, teacher, evangelist." --- we don't fall apart because our anchor is not in the calling but in Christ alone.
I've seen men of each of those 5 callings become More annoited and affective when they no longer felt the need to be recognized as such and just became a servant in His collective Body as equals with all.

I say this for your uplifting and no other reason. For our confidence Must be in that we are a member of and in His Body, whether you or I or any of us operate in any of the ministerial gift(s) or not. Our confidence, security and satisfaction is in HIM Alone.


His Love and Peace, that passes All Understanding.

 2012/8/17 10:51









 Re:

Brother, I've gone offline after posting the one reply but these parts also stayed in my heart as a barb and wouldn't let go.

Quote:
It is hurtful to these men because they are already weakened in life by virtue of the way they have been treated from their childhoods. Those who have been so weakened are already fully aware and believe deeply that they are nothing in themselves. They will come from the filthiness of this life and have nothing to boast in. They will be ashamed of their former life and will ask God how it was that He allowed them to be treated so badly in their childhood. The Father will tell them that He wants them the way they are; weakened by the knowledge of their own sinfulness and the continuous rejection they have known from the beginning.



Brother, this is not only true of prophets. Multitudes all over the world [even on this forum] have suffered more greatly than we can ever imagine, with horrendous childhoods and struggles as adults. Most especially in third world nations. We need to have the view that our Christ has - of the Whole world and not just our own little worlds or lives.
Also, do we see all prophets [ie OT prophets] coming from "filthy lives". Many are called and set apart from the time they were 3 yrs old.

Quote:
they will not be best served in Him by degrading their desire to speak for God. It is offensive.


We don't see this in any Biblical examples of the Prophets of old. If they are truly called - they will die to self - Only Seek to Point people to HIM or His Words and no questionings from others "offends" them.

ANY child of GOD can be used in any of the gifts - and be mocked or scorned while the gift is in operation - but if they have reckoned 'themselves' dead in Christ - they don't take offense - because it's not them that are being derided if what GOD used them for is being mocked but it's HIM/The Word of GOD that is being rejected.
All attacks against anything 'From' Him/Truth - is an attack on Him and not us. To think otherwise is pride & 'self'-consciousness that the thing done or the words said are of "us" and our focus is off of "to His Glory" and onto 'ourselves'.
Jesus said that it's not us that is being attacked or hated but Him and His Truth ... so we should just die to self-focus and see it's Him that's being mocked by whomever - not us.
We cannot elevate this position higher than an Apostle, nor should we elevate them much higher than the teachers, pastors nor evangelists.
If we elevate any one calling above all else in His Body - we've missed what the definition and calling of HIS BODY is.
Any member of HIS BODY can be enabled - "as He wills" - to be used in Any or ALL of the Gifts of 1Corth 12, Romans 12, and even Ephesians 4 'whenever He needs a position filled', without them having that gift as being permenant or as a calling. Though we do know that there are those that are called to fill one of the Eph 4 callings - yet to say that Jesus can't use anyone He chooses to even function in all 5 positions sometime in their lives, is to limit GOD and exalt man/ourselves. I see Paul being used in all 5 of those ministerial callings through his life and the gifts of 1Corth 12 as well. There is no limits with what HE decides to do with 'any' Saint.
HE is the focus - not the gifts nor the callings. HE is the focus of the gifts and callings. Our 'job' as His Body is Only to lift HIM up, Draw ALL of the focus to HIM / The Word of GOD and to all fulfill Ephesians 4:12-16 by desiring and aiding His Body to see that they are ONE as 'His' Body and not lone-rangers seeking for attention but only to hide behind Him as they bring Him to the forefront of all eyes and ears to focus on as well.
We need to decrease dramatically so that we bring Him the Increase.


From my heart with no ill intent whatsoever. Just praying that HE be glorified through His Church - His Body of which He's kept The Head.



thank you and bless you and your family again.

 2012/8/17 12:53





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