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turn
Member



Joined: 2011/4/27
Posts: 177
USA

 Re:

Is not the church in visible schism in most or all towns and communities?

Depending upon the size of the area, multiple congregations may exist of Baptists, Presbyterians, Charismatics, Lutherans, Methodists, Catholics, Independents, House Church Associations, etc. All have their meeting places and leaders but rarely does one cooperate with the other or even acknowledge that the other exists.

Organizational unity would not be a good goal and would not last and but greater unity of heart and purpose and cooperation would be worthy goals.

When Paul and John and Peter wrote to churches in the first century like those of Galatia and Ephesus and Rome, these churches might not share one building but they were united in purpose and action. Some were sharing around the letters of Apostles like Paul and John and Peter and some of those letters became Scripture.

The first century churches shared the experience of persecution together.

The first century churches shared in almsgiving for the poor at least when they gave via Paul for the poor saints at Jerusalem.

Disciples were won for Christ rather than for a congregation's membership rolls and statistical reporting. The pay, position, privileges, prerogatives and pensions of pastors and their staffs were not such influences as they are today.

In modern times and culture in North America, multiple local congregations across denominational boundaries have cooperated in outreach. Particulars have included providing temporary shelter to the homeless, food kitchens, supporting the pro-life cause, running a 24 x 7 phone line for meeting the needs of people in crisis, operating a distribution network for things like clothing and groceries.

Motivated by love for God and love for neighbor, the purpose of outreach for Christ's cause can bring Christian people together in a community. It has been rare. It has happened. Hallowed be His Name.



 2013/2/15 9:05Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7534
Mississippi

 Re:

______________________________________________________________
QUOTE:
"Motivated by love for God and love for neighbor, the purpose of outreach for Christ's cause can bring Christian people together in a community."
______________________________________________________________

I have also seen it happen - too bad it can not be enduring...I have concluded that if it were it would create such a powerful group that it would become more of a power to be reckoned with politically and that is not how the Holy Spirit works. He uses weak folks who know their limitations and know they can only function by empowered by the HS.

Appreciate your post, turn.


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2013/2/16 15:37Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7534
Mississippi

 John 17:13 - Joy

John 17:13 NASB

13 “But now I come to You; and these things I speak in the world so that they may have My joy made full in themselves.

COMMENT:

2. They may have joy: that they may have My joy made full in themselves. v13

Joy.

Jesus asks the Father that his disciples would be filled with his joy. What is joy?

People of all kinds want joy. The devil knows this and works to produce a counterfeit for people and he has been very successful. But what does counterfeit joy look like? Maybe it would help to know what divinely endowed joy looks like first.

I checked out Joy in "Strongs". In the OT there are several Hebrew words translated joy. The idea for most, if not all, is cheerfulness; specifically welcome; gladness, joy, mirth, rejoicing. In this scripture the Greek word is:

χαρά
chara
khar-ah'
From G5463; cheerfulness, that is, calm delight: - gladness, X greatly, (X be exceeding) joy (-ful, -fully, -fulness, -ous).

The meanings are similar.

We read in Gal. 5:22 where joy is listed as the second fruit in the list of the fruit of the Spirit - comes right after love. It is a divinely endowed sense, feeling. So, how does one experience this sense? After all, one cannot be giddy, bubbly all the time - there is work to be done! Or, maybe this is a misconception of joy?

As I look to Jesus, how he lived, worked, interacted with people, I see how he got tired, annoyed, angry at times because of situations he found himself to be in. This does not look like joy to me... So, when do we see joy demonstrated in his life?

As I study the life of Jesus, I see him delighted in his talk with the Father. Do you not also sense it? Do you not experience it when you study the WORD? After all, the WORD is God's love letter to humans - do we not enjoy getting love letters from loved ones? But God's love letter is far superior...does it not produce in you a calmness in your spirit? your emotions? And does it not impact how you respond to life?

As I compare the delight one gets in studying the WORD, the joy that results I cannot help but consider the counterfeit - fun. Scripture does not say that having fun is sin but when one pursues fun at the expense of time with the LORD does it not distract from our walk with the LORD? Does not ones time spent with the LORD teach us what indeed is funny and what is not? How one should respond to what supposedly is funny? (For example, I was made aware of Amish Mafia recently by a plain Mennonite...I was appalled when they considered it funny!)

Joy - is it elusive? Suppose, you lay aside what consumes your time and get into the WORD, asking the LORD to teach you - see what happens! This will teach you how to respond to life when it happens on a daily basis. When you meet the public it will not be hard to let your light shine. Jesus says, "Let your light so shine.."

A testimony: Regina had died. Many had prayed for her healing. Until two weeks before her death I told the LORD, you either take her or heal her. He body was filling up with fluids, she looked BAD. She was also paralyzed from her waist down from the tumor that was growing in her brain. Early on the LORD had shown me how I needed to trust him with her situation that if she would die, he will be there to comfort; in the meantime, live life to the full each and every day. I did that, but now she was dead. Her body was cold and returning to the earth.

I went to bed that night. As I laid there my mind went back to her life from the time of her birth all the way up to the present. It was as real as though I was seeing a movie of her. All during this time I was filled with incredible joy that God had loaned her to us these 25 years. She was on loan and God had the right to recall it because he owned her. And we were blessed for having had her in our home.

This experience went on for a long time - had no idea how long but it came from God, I know it did. I was not strong enough emotionally to produce anything like it. One counselor told me it was a gift from God. I agree.

Joy - the devil can never duplicate it. He tries but is a miserable failure.

God is good.


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2013/2/16 16:25Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7534
Mississippi

  Joy Robbers

Joy Robbers

I have been thinking a lot about joy. In doing this study of John the LORD has been helping me to once again connect some dots that I have observed, experienced so an understanding is occurring of what joy is and what robs a person of joy.

The devil works hard to mask the reality of joy in the life of a person and he is so sly, terribly sly. It all begins with sin - no surprise there, but it sets in motion a series of events that will work to make joy difficult.

Sin produces guilt - this comes from God. Unless a person deals with it soon it will go underground and be buried with a huge dose of self-pity because of the consequences. The devil will inform you that you failed because someone else was wrong so therefore you are a victim. Frustration and anger sets in because you are no longer the owner of your problem. Now you are living in anger and frustration which will impair your ability to make decent decisions so you will sin upon sin. Forgiveness is a mere word, a concept that certainly does not apply to you. Distress becomes the norm and your emotional stability is challenged so off to the psychiatrist/psychologist you go. They will teach you some coping skills that will work for a while and then you are right back to square one. Some counselors will use Biblical methods but the results are the same.

Or, maybe, you have been violated, hurt by someone...anyone. Now you wallow in your pain of being robbed ... Anger sets in...you hurt so bad so off to the mental health professions you go. You will pour out your misery and they will once again teach you coping skills that have limited results.

And - joy? It is elusive, a mere word in a dictionary. But what does Jesus say? Know the TRUTH and the TRUTH shall make you FREE!

You know what all is truth? The reality is that there are very few people who have not experienced some kind of emotional hurt, pain that the devil will NOT exploit to his advantage and get people in bondage. This is reality - we are in a WAR, we are the battlefield where the devil is fighting God. Who do we listen to?

TRUTH liberates and where does it come from? Jesus says a lot in John 17 about how he is in the Father, the Father in Him and he is in the disciples. If this is true there will be joy. But joy cannot be there if sin resides there so one must get rid of it. AND you cannot do it on your own - you are totally helpless to do so - it takes a cleansing of your heart, soul and mind which is facilitated by immersing oneself in the WORD, allowing it to fill you, teach you, clean you up. That is why spending time in the WORD will fortify oneself against the attacks the devil will bring your way. You will experience the joy of the LORD and when this becomes your experience it will help one to clearly identify sin when it shows itself.

Am I a victim ever? Sure, but so was Jesus and how did he handle it? He spent time with the Father...and no one can improve upon that method of dealing with injustice. (I hate to call it a method but for lack of a better word, I will use it.) Spending time with the LORD will fortify one, enable one to live above the trials and temptations the devil sends our way. But if and when we fail we do have an advocate with the Father but we must be on good terms with our lawyer in order for Him to work for us and He in us.

Joy - possible? Yes, when one allows the WORD to permeate ones soul, heart and mind, allowing it to teach you, direct your life in all its ways.

God bless.


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2013/2/18 11:22Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7534
Mississippi

 John 17:15- 21

John 17:15-21

15 “I do not ask You to take them out of the world, but to keep them from the evil one.

16 “They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

17 “Sanctify them in the truth; Your word is truth.

18 “As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world.

19 “For their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they themselves also may be sanctified in truth.

20 “I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word;

21 that they may all be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me.

COMMENT:

Jesus prayer for his disciples included three main points:

1. That they would be unified. v. 11

2. That they would have his joy. v.13

3. They would be kept from the evil one. v.15

None of these attributes can stand alone, independent of each other. They are all a part of a whole much like an egg: the shell, the white, the yolk. An egg cannot function for the purpose it was made without all its parts. (Not considering other creatures who find it a delicacy for consumption.)

This prayer was not only for his current disciples but for all those who come after him. v. 20

As I consider how Jesus emphasizes the importance of being set apart for holiness I am made aware how the devil works so powerfully in distracting us through our lusts for entertainments, egos, materialism so we can be somebody in this world - how we can hanker after recognition, honors by our contemporaries, the world of those in power. But how does one live in the world but not being a part of it? this is the question. I have been thinking a lot on this in the past few days...

As I ponder this question of being in the world but not being of it, I can only look to Jesus, see how he functioned in it, how he dealt with the world around him: the people, the pressure to conform, how he was about his father's business. The only time we see him submit to another human being was when a child; but when he started him ministry at 30 he was on his own. What he did in those intervening years we do not know. No doubt he was in preparation for the purpose God sent him and it is from that preparation he was able to minister as he did.

Jesus had a goal - that of pleasing the Father. He spent time alone with Him. He was taught by Him; he received His strength from him; He received his orders from Him. Jesus did not go to the religious authorities of the day for inspiration, permissions. He worked independently, apart from them. And they clashed - all the time because they felt their power, influenced being threatened.

You know, when we do likewise by allowing the TRUTH to penetrate our mind, impact how we do life it will put us at odds with the surrounding culture. When this is the case we will be sensitive in identifying evil when it shows itself, even when it is clocked in 'religious garb/rhetoric'. Paul calls this ability 'discernment of spirits'.

As we grow in our relationship with the LORD allowing the Holy Spirit to teach us, inform us we do feel his nudging, challenging pokes in our conscience/spirit. The more we surrender to his pokes the more sensitive we become to His leading. But this cannot happen apart from being serious students of the WORD. This is what sets us apart - is being filled with TRUTH. v. 17

Yes, Jesus did not leave us defenseless - he gave us everything we need to live victoriously. If we live in defeat it is our choice, not His.


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2013/2/20 9:28Profile
enid
Member



Joined: 2006/5/22
Posts: 2680
Nottingham, England

 Re: John 17:15- 21


Quote: "If we live in defeat it is our choice, not His"

If only we were to realise this, then we would understand what Jesus means when He says His burden is easy and His yoke light.

As the truth of God's word sinks deeper in our hearts, and we live it out, we do become not of this world, and the world, will notice.

What happens after that...

 2013/2/20 10:34Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7534
Mississippi

 Re:

______________________________________________________________
QUOTE:
"As the truth of God's word sinks deeper in our hearts, and we live it out, we do become not of this world, and the world, will notice."
______________________________________________________________


Well said, Enid.

This is the exact conclusion I am coming to. While I have known it before, this reality is sinking deeper into my heart and soul.


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2013/2/20 14:31Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7534
Mississippi

 John 17:20-23

John 17:20-23 NASB

20 “I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word;

21 that they may all be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me.

22 “The glory which You have given Me I have given to them, that they may be one, just as We are one;

23 I in them and You in Me, that they may be perfected in unity, so that the world may know that You sent Me, and loved them, even as You have loved Me.

COMMENT:

It is really hard for me to write about this - I am so overwhelmed with the love Jesus expressed to his Father for his disciples. Love oozes from every word, every expression. His confidence in this motley of self-serving men is nothing short of awesome.

Jesus reiterates his desire they would be unified. People who are interested in power, in ruling like these guys were will not be the easiest people to get along with. There will be politics, manipulation, arm-twisting to shape people up...Of course, we do not see them doing this while Jesus was with them but the potential certainly was there UNLESS there was a change of heart. And there was - on Pentecost. This group of men became unified. Imagine that! Do you not see how the Holy Spirit can change a person if he/she is willing to submit to his authority? (Do not forget the Apostle Paul, either.)

Jesus teaches us in this chapter the reasons why unity is so dreadfully important. Verses 21 and 23 tell us:

1.so that the world may believe that You sent Me.

2. so that the world may know that You sent Me.

And this is exactly what has happened to me as I study John. I see how it has happened in the lives of the disciples and now I am overwhelmed by its reality.

While I am overwhelmed with this reality, is the world overwhelmed with what they see in us? Are we unified? Do we have his joy in us? Do we live apart from the evil that is in the world? If these qualities characterize us it is no wonder that the world hates us because we are living proof that God sent Jesus! WOW!





_________________
Sandra Miller

 2013/2/22 7:27Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7534
Mississippi

 Taking a Break....

I want to tell you I am taking a break from posting on this thread, "The Sayings of Jesus".

This journey in looking into the sayings of Jesus has had a profound impact on me - so profound I never imagined. It is so intense the devil is working hard to destroy me, so I feel I need to back off for a while, and rest. You see, I am seeing how serious it is to know and realize and BELIEVE how the Father is in Jesus, Jesus in the Father and how Jesus dwells within his child - how this impacts the Believer. I am seeing how so few are really living there and this saddens me to no end. I guess I have put too many people on a pedestal and was not aware of it...

In any case, I expect I will be back with more insights as the LORD shows them to me, but for the immediate time I will be studying something else in the WORD - am not sure what, maybe Revelation - whenever I need encouragement that is what I read. I do have a burning question I want answered, nothing profound but it lingers: was the Sinai peninsula lush with vegetation during the time of the Exodus? It is desert now but so is the Sahara...Anyhow, this search will be fun - maybe this is what I need - a little fun.:-) Usually in doing a search of this kind will result in "ah HA" moments that always appear unexpectedly and this is so delightful, so worshipful!

God bless.

ginnyrose


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2013/2/25 8:46Profile
enid
Member



Joined: 2006/5/22
Posts: 2680
Nottingham, England

 Re: Taking a Break....


Well, I hope you enjoy your break. But, I often think, what we start, we need to finish.

We need to finish the race. Jesus said on the Cross, "It is finished".

I don't think that 'the devil is working so hard to destroy me', should be a reason to take a break. But, if you need to, you need to.

Take care and see you soon. Real soon.

God bless.

 2013/2/25 10:30Profile





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