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Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA


I am not entirely sure just what is going on around here lately but there has been an influx of divisive posts that are out of line in their tenor.

Assumptions being made that are directed seemingly at members of this site...

Snide comments, a divisive spirit, pride, haughtiness. An unhealthy anger seems to be back of it. This is not going to continue here.

This forum has survived by being a place where these things are not tolerated. Many a good site has had to shut it's own do to this type of mindset. Ray Comforts forum comes to mind.

IF you feel compelled to continue on with a mindset of tearing down your own brethren to get your particular point of view across you are in the wrong place.

Cannot stress enough the principle behind what the Lord said.

" Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of. "

This is a warning to those who wish to continue in this manner.

Mike Balog

 2005/2/14 1:00Profile

Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: WARNING; High View

Something picked up recently from listening to a rather distinguished and elderly gentleman who has much experience in this walk is what I suspect may be happening in part here.

A lack of a high view of God.

I have noticed it within myself as often times there can be a drift unknown away from that even if unintentional. This is all in general and can only pray that it is gleaned from, not as some sort of pronouncement, just what I am sensing, that, is subject to it's own particular faults and am open to correction, preaching to my own choir as well. It is my hope to redirect our focus once again back to the Lord, to Jesus who is all in all. This is all just food for thought.

If this be true;

Mat 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

And if this is realized as we communicate and share amongst ourselves it ought to give us pause to consider our words a bit more carefully. Would we be saying some of things we say to one another in His presence?

First thought upon waking this morning;

"He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.) Joh 7:38,39

And just as quickly;

"But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison. Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God. Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be. Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter? Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear olive berries? either a vine, figs? so can no fountain both yield salt water and fresh." Jam 3:8-10

Springs and fountains. Living water and bitter water.

What this has to do with a high view of God? Much it seems in that to be flippant in our conduct, even unbeknownst to ourselves seems to emphasize a drift in just Who it is we have to do with. A balance is needed surely, but a pause to humble ourselves and think on these things and pray, lest we forget this exhortation;

"See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:

Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven.

And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.
Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:

For our God is a consuming fire." Heb 12:25-29

Just to refocus a bit and parallel to the above if not only in principal but in realization again of what is yet to come and Who once more we are again under, His watchful eye;

"And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;

Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh. And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees; When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand. So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand. Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.
Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.

For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that [b]ye may be accounted worthy[/b] to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and [b]to stand before the Son of man[/b]." Luk 21:25-36

Some Tozer to contemplate;

"Pure thinking will do more to educate a man than any other activity he can engage in. To afford sympathetic entertainment to abstract ideas, to let one idea beget another, and that another, till the mind teems with them; to compare one idea with others, to weigh, to consider, evaluate, approve, reject, correct, refine; to join thought with thought like an architect till a noble edifice has been created within the mind; to travel back in imagination to the beginning of the creation and then to leap swiftly forward to the end of time; to bound upward through illimitable space and downward into the nucleus of an atom; and all this without so much as moving from our chair or opening the eyes—this is to soar above all the lower creation and to come near to the angels of God."

A.W. Tozer

Luk 21:19 [i] In your patience possess ye your souls.[/i]

Mike Balog

 2005/2/14 10:21Profile

Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri


I am not entirely sure just what is going on around here lately but there has been an influx of divisive posts that are out of line in their tenor.

Hi Bro. Mike,

Thanks for the insightful post which I believe many of us have been feeling also of late. I have felt quite vexed by many of the posts. Looking across the list of posts now was almost surreal having spent much time here at SI this last year. The whole direction of the site has seemed to shift. God led bro Greg to start this site with an emphasis on revival and spiritual renewal. it is my prayer that we will keep this in mind as we are making posts and starting new threads.

God Bless,


Robert Wurtz II

 2005/2/15 8:23Profile

Joined: 2004/7/4
Posts: 1014
Pietermaritzburg, South Africa

 Re: Popcorn and chewing gum

I agree RobertW,

One thing I would like to emphasise and is what I alluded to in another post. People must say something, we can't just let it slide. There are some solid folk who spend time on here, so if even half of them would put their heart on their sleeve and say when things are bad, the majority would agree. As a few of us have already started saying.

Zeke Oosthuis

 2005/2/15 10:19Profile

Joined: 2002/12/11
Posts: 37053
"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11


Snide comments, a divisive spirit, pride, haughtiness. An unhealthy anger seems to be back of it. This is not going to continue here.

Thank you mike for posting these comments I fully agree. I have not been able to be as much ontop of things as I would like to be because of school but I have noticed somewhat of an dissive and brash comments being posted of late. I do think that people will be getting warnings if they continue in that type of spirit and there have been people who have been banned from this site before. Brother Roberts comments hit the heart of the matter also, SermonIndex primarly exsists for the purpose of spiritual renewal and revival! This should come across in the posts and discussions.

This is a place for edification and growth in the Lord, and people should not just be here to post in the forums without listening and reading the sermons available from the preachers from the past.

SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2005/2/15 13:59Profile

Joined: 2003/10/15
Posts: 1632


This is a place for edification and growth in the Lord

Thank you Greg (and Mike and Robert)for keeping things in perspective.

I would hope that all on SI would be more interested in growing deeper in the Lord than just discussing things that come to mind.

I think we all have seen some amazing growth and changes in the brothers and sisters (including me) who have regularly visited SI in the past. Praise God for this!!!

This is what it's all about. Getting to know Christ more.

we miss you on here, Greg!

In Him, Chanin


 2005/2/15 14:06Profile

Joined: 2003/4/18
Posts: 777

 An Appeal To The SI Community

Thank you Mike for starting this thread. Here is my offering of loaves and fishes.

Brothers and Sisters in Christ,

SermonIndex (a.k.a. SI) has become a very special place for me over the last year. What started as a google search for A. W. Tozer sermons has dug up what could only be considered finding a precious jewel in the middle of a vacant field. The forum community was slowly molded and united into a close knit group of misfits tired of religion as usual and longing for the ancient paths of the true religion—knowing God and growing into an intimate relationship with Jesus and fellowshipping with His saints. Over the last few months SI has been growing very rapidly. I love the fact that so many have come to SI and love it as much as I do. And this is the reason for my appeal.

The forums here have not been like typical religious internet forums. Yeah we’ve had our arguments and some pretty good ones too. I think all of us old-timers (in SI time of course :-)) have all got at least one or two posts that we’re ashamed of. But despite our failings we have pushed on toward the high calling in Christ and encouraged each other along the way. Over the past few months I pretty much stopped posting because I had become disillusioned with the forums, with myself and my attitude first and then with the direction that SI was heading. I would be the first to admit that there are several I need to apologize to KingJimmy and Agent001 are two that immediately come to mind for my unChristlike attitude towards. I love you two brothers and pray that Jesus is mightily manifested in your lives and hope that you will forgive me for my wrong attitude.

But hopefully for the newer SI members I could possibly give some helpful advice.

[b]Forum History:[/b]

SI has QUITE a history that’s developed in its forums. We’ve pretty much run the gamut of all the typical debates that naturally develop in religious forums. From predestination/freewill, and the nature of the baptism of the Holy Spirit and initial physical evidence, to once saved always saved…etc. And in all our debates the one thing I discovered is that from all these camps of Christianity there exists a group of people in them all who are in love with Jesus Christ and truly belong to Him. That’s why, as these topics have been laboriously rehashed, most of the “old timers” have simply posted links to all the former threads that already cover them instead of retyping it all over again. In other words we’ve been down that path and it didn’t profit us or make us greater souls in the kingdom of God and nothing was advanced for the cause of Jesus. We just argued whether it was friendly or heated it was just arguing. I would greatly encourage you to use the search bar at the top of the home page if you are interested in posting a thread on a topic like this to see if it’s already been discussed. And if it has and after you read through it, if you feel you have something to add to the topic then post away. But you probably won’t get much of a response by starting the topic all over again in a new thread; instead you’ll find a host of links to the other six times we discussed it in the past. I would hope that you find a different spirit on SI; one that will bless and strengthen you in Christ. The forums here have a different intent. Instead of trying to discover the knowledge of the universe or debate over jots and tittles we here at SI want to see Jesus formed in ourselves and our family and friends and that includes you. To me that is how an internet forum can truly glorify Jesus Christ. Which brings me to another point:

[b]The Messages[/b]

The heart of SI is not the forums, but the sermons. If you are not downloading and listening to the convicting messages from the ministers listed on SI then you will miss the point and intent of the forums here completely. Greg made the forums as a place where we could discus how God was speaking to our hearts as we listened to the sermons from the great men of God in the past. If you are unable to download and listen to the sermons send an email or PM to Greg (a.k.a. Sermonindex), Mike (a.k.a. crsschk) or me (a.k.a. hulsey) and we’ll be more than glad to burn you a cd and mail it to you.

[b]The Ministers[/b]

The speakers listed on SI are considered men of God—with the exception of one or two, I know that Greg listed William Branham in the past merely for research purposes. But in our opinion the others are held in the highest respect and as such we will defend them and strenuously at that. Any honest questions will be answered and are welcome. Any posts that are designed to cause people to question the integrity of the speakers on SI will likely be locked or deleted unless you can provide some very solid evidence. The Bible says not to even entertain an accusation against an elder unless it can be verified and we take that seriously on SI.

If you have any messages from these speakers that are not on SI you also might want to consider making a copy of it and sending it to us. We might be able to get it up on the site.


The forums have been split up into several sections. This helps to keep the topics all listed together in their proper groupings. PLEASE don’t post a topic about a speaker on SI in the “Lounge”, or talk about Scripture and Doctrine in the “Miracles That Follow The Plow” section (just two random examples). If you have a comment or a question about a speaker on SI, there is a section in the forum for that. There are several ministers that have their own section. For all others there is a section titled “Other Speakers.” If you have a prayer request or a current event that’s religiously related post it in the “Intercession and Current Events” section, a praise report would go in the “Miracles that Follow the Plow” section. If you want to talk about a book, we’ve even got a place for that. Etc…etc. These are just some housekeeping tips that will help keep the forums readable.

In Christ,
Jeremy Hulsey

Jeremy Hulsey

 2005/2/15 19:03Profile

Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: An Appeal To The SI Community

Outstanding Jeremy.

Maybe in one sense the best thing we could offer and suggest is that everybody first listen to this message;

[url=]A Call to Anguish[/url]
[i]by David Wilkerson[/i]

It may not be everybody's 'cup of tea' but if your heart can resonate with this message in just what he is trying to express, there is a good chance that you may feel part of what it is that many are seeking after here.

I really believe that deep down everybody that loves the Lord wants the same things that He does. How we go about that in so many different personalities is something that a place like this can be a great place to nurture that desire.

Talking earlier the thought turned to where some of us 'old timers' came from since our earliest postings and think we agreed that it might be a bit to frightening to look back on. Hopefully there is always movement in this walk, closer to the Lord and further from ourselves.

I do hope that whoever is out there will read through what Jeremy posted about this forum and just what it is [i]geared[/i] to. Can only at this point hope to clarify a couple of things that brought out this whole post in the first place.

'We' wear these little moderator hats only as a last resort when things start to drift into the wrong area and it is never pleasant. Personally am not conducive towards confrontation, never have been and to take on this 'role' in the first place was definitely against that nature.

There has to be some order and issues of conduct is usually the biggest that has come up and caused the most problems and thankfully there has been few in actuality. But do want to remark that by no means are we above reproach, we need to hear just as much if we off target as well, do hold us accountable, one to another.

And do feel free to express your heart and go back through the other topics that have been covered, the point that Jeremy is making is that much is to be gleaned from prior discussion and very well may have run through the same thoughts that we might want to bring to them. On the other hand they may give even more impetus to bring out even more questions and thoughts.

Originally the grievousness that prompted this post can be found from within these scripture's;

"Put them in mind to be subject to principalities and powers, to obey magistrates, to be ready to every good work, to speak evil of no man, to be no brawlers, but gentle, shewing all meekness unto all men. For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.

But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.

But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain." Tit 3:1-9

"Have you been thinking all along that we are trying to defend ourselves before you? We are speaking before God in Christ, and everything, dear friends, is meant to build you up.
I am afraid that I may come and somehow find you not as I want to find you, and that you may find me not as you want to find me. Perhaps there will be quarreling, jealousy, angry feelings, selfishness, slander, gossip, arrogance, and disorderly conduct.

I am afraid that when I come my God may again humble me before you and that I may have to grieve over many who formerly lived in sin and have not repented of their impurity, sexual immorality, and promiscuity that they once practiced." 2Co 12:19-21

"Let no filthy talk come out of your mouths, but only what is good for building up as the need may be. This way you will give grace to those who hear you. Do not grieve the Holy Spirit, by whom you were marked with a seal for the day of redemption. Let all bitterness, wrath, anger, quarreling, and slander be put away from you, along with all hatred. And be kind to one another, compassionate, forgiving one another just as God has forgiven you in Christ." Eph 4:29-32

This is getting long again and don't want to detract from Jeremy's response. I do hope it is read and taken to heart. Have heard from a few that responded to this and must say honestly that it wasn't so much anyone in particular as I can't even recall now exactly without going back through it all. It was meant in general and the hope was to draw attention to it individually, to pause and reflect on the words we use with one another but more so what those words convey, what is going on in our hearts and that the Lord is in our midst not to mention any number of watching eyes, of who we can either be drawing in or turning away in disgust as we don't act any differently than the rest of the world.

With that I confess my own failings here, they are many. This is not always pretty, the word of God is not always pretty, in fact it is often down right ugly as we deal with the sin that is still present within and without. So we harbor no illusions, it really seems to boil down to being honest and real, worshiping God in spirit and in truth. Helping each other to learn and grow and be challenged in our thinking, challenged in our hearts. To be humble and prayerful, forgiving and exhorting, repentant and encouraging, sorrowful and yet always rejoicing.

This isn't about us anyway

Mike Balog

 2005/2/16 0:37Profile

Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: Still missing the point.

Need to unfortunately keep bringing this back up as it has gotten to the point where trying to get the attention of some misguided intentions is failing.

Greg wrote earlier:

I have not been able to be as much ontop of things as I would like to be because of school but I have noticed somewhat of an dissive and brash comments being posted of late. I do think that people will be getting warnings if they continue in that type of spirit and there have been people who have been banned from this site before.

For those who do not know, Greg is the operator of this site and it saddens to no end that for all the incredible opportunity, all the vast resources made available here, the outreach to vast numbers of people, there is still a considerable amount of total disregard and disrespect for this site and for him as he is now attending bible school and can't give the attention that might have been given before hand.

Let me be even more blunt about it.
[b]This is not [u][i]your[/i][/u] website[/b] to come in here and disregard everybody else to get across your point. To disrupt, cause divisiveness, slandering each other, make backhanded snide comments, accusations, assumptions about each others character, name calling or any of the other dribble that is getting thrown around here without any consideration whatsoever.

Some of the 'discussions' have turned from questions or particular problems into ridiculous controversy's that reek of so much pride it is shocking that it is not more painfully obvious.

Nudging the combatant's to open there eye's to all this seems to be failing miserably. The tendencies to drag down this forum into the same endless arguments, controversies, snipping and backbiting that can be found elsewhere in abundance is not going to happen here. To reiterate, if you [i][b]must[/b][/i], go start your [b][i][u]own[/u][/i][/b] website and have at it.

The leash has run out, it's stretched taunt. If you have trouble figuring out if this applies to you, go back and re-read your own posts here and pray the Lord will show you. [i]1Jo 3:21 Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence in the presence of God.[/i]

Otherwise, the rope will be cut. This has gone on long enough.

Mike Balog

 2005/3/8 7:04Profile

Joined: 2005/2/16
Posts: 239
Winnipeg, Manitoba Canada


Thanks for this Mike - I have really been ministered to through the forums, and hearing this level of commitment from those who manage - well, it very good to hear.


Daniel van de Laar

 2005/3/8 8:31Profile

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