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 Re:


I thought of this video when I initially read this thread:

You're Changing by David Wilkerson
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4QpHrVN0hE


_________________
SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2012/6/17 19:18Profile









 Re:

Quote:
It will be the 1040 saints who will complete the great commission.

If your convinced of that, than so be it.

I see more than just a handful here that will do great things in North America, great and mighty things that will shake the foundations, not just a mere remnant. There are more than we think.

I respect your thoughts brother, God bless

 2012/6/17 19:50
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 6650
NC, USA

 Re:

Bearmaster wrote:

"Saints may I say in love it is time for a reality check. We, American Christians, are the ones out of step with the rest of the world. The American church is in a bubble. American style Christianity is not New Testament Christianity. I say again, American style Christianity, is mot Biblical.

Brothers and sisters, in Eritrea or China, have more understanding of following Jesus than we in America do. They have the gospel. We don't. There's is gospel of sacrifice. Ours is a gospel of cheap grace."
---------------------------
I read stuff like this all the time. It gets a little tiresome. I for one am happy that Christians in America are not being tortured for their faith. It's not our fault; we live in a nation that has not allowed things to go that far, at least not yet, thank the Lord. Even if Christians in America WERE uncompromised and even IF the true gospel WAS preached and lived, we would STILL not have an outbreak of mobs guillotining Christians on Main St. Has it not occurred to you that perhaps God is sparing us for whatever reason? I am not going to apologize for living in the USA, and I am not apologizing for not being slammed in an iron maiden-- at least not lately. If you want to go to some foreign country and get shards of glass shoved under your fingernails for your faith, feel free. That has not yet happened yet where I live, and for this I am thankful.

And that is another reason I cringe at some "doom and gloom" posts.. because sometimes there seems to be a certain glee in talking about how bad things are going to get and a seeming hope that things WILL get really really bad really soon.

I know this post will get some of you really angry, and for that I am sorry-- but I had to say it.

And please don't lecture me about how the American church is weak and anemic and largely ineffective-- it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that.


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Todd

 2012/6/17 19:54Profile
roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777


 Re:

Quote:
God had judged the American church and found it lacking.


David Wilkerson came to a point where he felt he had to stop talking about the judgment all the time, and talk about the hope because that's what they need. I think God is working in us to come to that point too.


Quote:
do you ready think American Christianity has the power of China or Iran.


Might we be comparing the best of their Christianity with the worst of ours? China and other countries have had their seasons of darkness. The glory of God arose out of that darkness; yet, much darkness remains in those places – surely not less than we experience here!


I’d like to share a recent personal story:
For a period of time I found myself enduring a series of troublesome episodes. I went to the Lord about it and shared with him how I wanted to have more resilience in these kinds of trials. It came to the point where I suspected that God was preparing me for a greater such challenge. And sure enough it came. When the “big one” came I endured it with patience and grace – thanks to the preparation God had led me through previously. I was praising God for the privilege of suffering for him – and in this case, that’s just what it was.

Here’s the lesson to me: God knows what we will be enduring in the future, and he can prepare us. But more: he gives us THIS DAY what we need for THIS DAY. When I heard Vicar White’s testimony I realized that God had given him the faith and grace to endure HIS trials. Those are not my trials, and I need not fear my inability to handle them.

When we comment about coming tribulation and all this frightful foreboding language about some future experience, we must be aware that God hasn’t given us today what we need some time in the distant future (as we are assuming). He gives us enough for today. We cannot live in some uncertain future existence, or we will miss what God has for us today – his calling and his empowerment, and also his blessing. And we will make emotional wrecks out of God's people.

Tomorrow has enough trouble of its own. Why torture each other with anxiety over something which they have no capacity to handle today - because God has not yet empowered them. Surely that is not love!

Quote:
Has it not occurred to you that perhaps God is sparing us for whatever reason?



… an exhortation to look at the mercy in the judgment. Did you see it today?

Diane





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Diane

 2012/6/17 20:32Profile
staff
Member



Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 2227


 Re:

Hi,
I originally used the term "doom and gloom" on another post and i used it to describe exactly what I wanted to describe which was negative.
I think if those "preaching persecution around the corner" is negative and "doom and gloom" preaching if it doesn't happen or come to pass.I used the term to describe people who are preaching that "negative things are coming" but have no proof of this which is known as "gloom and doom".
I could have said the term "negative things are coming" but by saying doom and gloom everybody knows exactly what I mean.

You then went on to describe on this thread that anyone that didnt have your view was basically ignorant of the bible and now you are saying words like "immature".These remarks are derogatory.If someone called you ignorant of the bible I am sure you say that it was derogatory.
I don't expect any push back.I hoped that you would comment on everything else on my response to you.
Just because the American Church is in a bad way spiritually doesn't mean that their will be persecution,God may have another remedy.Also if their is persecution it doesnt mean it has anything to do with the end times(it may or may not)However if people are prophesying about the future I would like them to be specific otherwise they are just like the ones who have brought the American church to where it is.Just because we deserve persecution isnt the basis for a teaching that "persecution is just around the corner"
If God has raised up a group of people to warn' I can except that but it has to be inspired by the Holy Spirit and in line with the word and they have to be accountable if it doesn't happen,
Yours Staff

 2012/6/17 20:32Profile









 Re:

Staff writes.........

"You then went on to describe on this thread that anyone that didnt have your view was basically ignorant of the bible"

Staff, are you just making this up as you go along??? Where did I say that anyone who did not hold my view of the Bible was ignorant? Sheesh , just a plain old lie. I was pointing out that the term " doom and gloom," has always been used as a derogatory remark on people of a certain view. I stand by that. I know people from all different views on escatology, but they dont use that phrase because it is considered derogatory. There is no point in using a phrase to critisize certain recent posts ( none of which have been mine) and then run away from the words used or the point that is being made. So, perhaps we can agree, " doom and gloom" is a derogatory term? That has been my sole point. To turn around and then say that I am being deraogatory by saying that it is derogatory is immature, I stand by that...........bro Frank

 2012/6/17 20:49
DEADn
Member



Joined: 2011/1/12
Posts: 1395
Lakeland FL

 Re:

While reading this thread do you have find that Christianity is a kind similiar to politics. No one will totally agree with anyone and particulars and so we have divisions and many times those division are over nonsense. Thus the reason why We should be pay careful attention of what we argue and how really important it is in the end.


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John

 2012/6/17 21:20Profile









 Re:

I'm having a difficult time understanding some views.

One would have to rip The Revelation and several other chpts just from their New Testament to avoid hearing anything negative about the future.

Do you folks watch TV at all?

I'm wondering if doing that may be burning people out more than these other people posting that they believe we're living in the last days.

Throw the TVs and DVD movies out - just read His Word and see how you feel in a week or two, is my suggestion.

Jesus didn't make sure all of that was in there for us to ignore any part of it, but it appears that some are.

I'd like to be wrong on that.

Good quotes from Mozart, ArtB.


Peace on the inside!

 2012/6/17 21:26









 Re:

I am amazed at the number of replies on this thread. I think Greg opened up a can of worms with a few of his threads. Anyway, this Scripture came to mind when it comes to the attitude we should have about persecution. Obvioulsy there are many views as this thread has expressed but what did Jesus say about persecution?

Mat 5:11-12 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. (12) Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

We are actually commanded to rejoice. Now, did the Apostles take this literally...........

Act 5:40-41 And to him they agreed: and when they had called the apostles, and beaten them, they commanded that they should not speak in the name of Jesus, and let them go. (41) And they departed from the presence of the council, rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer shame for his name.

And we see that the apotles rejoiced after being beaten and reviled for the sake of Jesus. So, no matter if one sees persecution coming in an end time scenario or just another wave of persecution, it is clear how we should handle it. And so it is good to ask ourselves the question " would we have the same Spirit in us?" Could we see ourselves rejoicing to suffer for the cause of Christ?. The battles are won prior to the battle and they are won in prayer as we see Jesus in the garden of Gethsemane..............bro Frank

 2012/6/17 21:57
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 6650
NC, USA

 Re:

Quote:

"Throw the TVs and DVD movies out - just read His Word and see how you feel in a week or two, is my suggestion.

Jesus didn't make sure all of that was in there for us to ignore any part of it, but it appears that some are."
--------------------

I love this-- instead of addressing the points made by those with whom you disagree (probably me), you accuse them of ignoring scripture.

If I am ever that condescending on here, will someone please smack me upside the head?

This thread has not been about any end times view; it is not about trying to defend the Western church; it is not about arguing that the warnings in scripture arent meant for today (I have never said any such thing). It is rather about the spirit in which certain posts are written.

But by simply raising the issue, I am accused of having my head in the clouds because I watch too much TV rather than spending every waking moment studying scripture and committing Foxe's Book of Martyrs to memory. And the crazy thing is that no one here knows anything about me.

It is sad that we Christians cannot have a civil discussion without accusing those with whom we may disagree of being less spiritual than we are.


_________________
Todd

 2012/6/17 22:20Profile





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