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ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7534
Mississippi

 Re:

______________________________________________________________
QUOTE:
"Lots of gloom and doom forecasted in the Book of Daniel and Revelations,"
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And this is precisely why many do not like the book of Revelation.

However, what I see in this book is VICTORY! Victory over gloom and doom. Hey! could a body appreciate the glory of the LORD unless you have witnessed the awfulness of the result of sin? I do not believe Adam or Eve had any clue how life would be different after sin before they succumbed to it.

Just like enduring the pains of childbirth - it does not last forever. Afterwards, the joy of having a child will help one forget the pain of birthing it...John 16:21

If Revelation scares you, start by concentrating on the portions that describe heaven like chapter 4. This should get you going...

There is victory ahead for the saint - if he aligns himself with the VICTOR! PTL


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2012/6/17 9:19Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 6650
NC, USA

 Re:

Appolus wrote:

"In no way can this phrase["gloom and doom"] be attributed to anything positive unless you can use it in a sentence that is positive? So, if one is going to use negative terms in regard to posts that they do not like, they should expect some push-back"

Well, I did apologize for my use of the term, but like I said i wanted to use a term that encapsulated what I was talking about and I knew everyone would know what I meant. I agree that "doom and gloom" is a negative term.

And it is not that I "do not like" posts like this; I realize that warnings etc are sometimes necessary. I worry more about the effect they have on people; whether they are actually building up or tearing down. I understand that some of the responsibility for this rests on the reader. I guess I am far enough along in my walk with the Lord to choose not to be torn down by such posts and to be able to take correction when needed. But I do believe there should be practical suggestions for how Christians should deal with the dire warnings posted.

Jeffmar wrote: "Preach the gospel at all times, and when necessary use words." I believe it was St. Francis who said this, not Augustine- but I may be misremembering. I have always really liked the saying. Paul said it first, in a different way: "Therefore, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God." I Cor. 10:31. If people truly see Christ in us first, we will then have plenty of opportunity to use words.


_________________
Todd

 2012/6/17 9:20Profile









 Re:

Francis or Augustine, whomever it was, it was a cat-baptizing Catholic. That's my point. I don't like the saying because it is used as an excuse not to preach, not to share the Word of God, which alone is "living, and active, and sharper than any two-edged sword, able to discern the intents of the heart and even divide soul and spirit, joints and marrow."
What Paul said is true: whatever you do, do it as unto the Lord. We should. I don't have a problem with that. I agree and desire to do the same. Problem is when people somehow make the jump that we should do this ONLY, IN PLACE of preaching the Word, being a witness, sharing the scriptures, etc., when Paul instructs us to do just that in at least a dozen scriptures and the apostles give that example in scripture everywhere they go, even after just being beaten, imprisoned, stoned, etc.
If I come across as "mad" because I just share the scriptures on a subject (especially on the subject of preaching vs. avoiding the scriptures), it's not an accurate portrayal of my heart that can't TRULY be known through an Internet forum thread.
But, if I seem mad at the idea of "just take it easy, don't be so super-spiritual, don't worry all the time about what the scriptures say about a matter, it's because I am MAD. By MAD, not any man, but at the devil and his spirits with power over the air to deceive people with seducing doctrines of devils. Not trying to sound super-spiritual, just being real with you.
My heart breaks as I see something coming and much of the confessing church not ready (some believers who are not awake in the light of the truth, and obviously the false converts). It's not some "doom and gloom" fear-mongering to get people anxious and fearful. It's a cry from the Heart of the Father to look clearly in the mirror (of His Word) & see yourselves clearly and know that you are not ready, so THAT YOU CAN REPENT, AND RETURN TO THE LORD WITH ALL OF YOUR HEART!
It's not a negative message, or God, His Word, His Prophets from Genesis to Acts (to today) are all Negative in large part. It's not negative. Sitting down with a child at "progress report" time and talking to them seriously about a failing grade is not negative. It's actually VERY positive. It takes the opportunity to lovingly warn and redirect the child before the final grade is set into stone as failing. Only the rebellious at that point blame the teacher, the school, and the principal for the child's failings.
That's the trappings of our modern society's "self-esteem", every child should get a trophy (win or lose), etc. mentality. David Wilkerson has a message I heard once, as did Art Katz, and Leonard Ravenhill on a generation unable to receive correction from ministers of God's Word. the true minister of God's Word is not wasting tons of time in frivolous entertainment and tons of worldly distractions, but in the ministry of prayer, the Word of God, and caring for the Body. He is walking with the Lord and being used in whatever facet/gifts the Lord ordains.
I have no closet full of skeletons of porn, beating my wife/children, etc. I do see my sinfulness that remains more and more each day in the light of God's Word & presence and know apart from Christ I am the worst kind of vile sinner on the planet. That's not Hyperbole. That's a fact!
Anyways, the scriptures can't just be tossed aside when inconvenient. It breaks my heart to see/hear such things/thoughts present among those who name the Name of Christ. It shows me confirmation of what the Lord has already shown me, and so many others, we are not ready. Don't fear circumstances coming. Just repent and return to the Lord with all of your heart. Examine yourselves, test yourselves (in light of God's Word) to see if you are in the faith. Because you see, the most fearful experience anyone could ever have is to hear the Lord say, "Depart from me, I never knew you. Cast him into the lake of fire." don't fear what man can do to you, but rather fear Him that can cast your body into hell. Yes, fear Him. If you just write that scripture off, or call that fear-mongering, your problem is with God (& His Word), not me, and I really don't know what else to do but warn you to wake up and buy some oil before your clock expires and it's too late.
This is all said in a spirit of love, God as my witness.

 2012/6/17 10:17









 Re:

Quote:
However, what I see in this book is VICTORY! Victory over gloom and doom. Hey! could a body appreciate the glory of the LORD unless you have witnessed the awfulness of the result of sin? I do not believe Adam or Eve had any clue how life would be different after sin before they succumbed to it.



Amen ginnyrose!



Re 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

Re 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
(KJV)

 2012/6/17 10:22









 Re: Why so offensive?

If we be honest with ourselves, persecution and martyrdom is offensive. I mean it is offensive to the N. American evangelical. Even to some in this forum. To those who follow the Lamb in China, Eritrea, N. Korea, or Eritrea persecution and suffering are a normal way to follow Christ. These believers would not know what it is to follow Christ without suffering. They cannot conceive of a life of ease as we have it here in America. To them this thread would seem awfully strange about gloom and doom.

In China believers do not even talk about persecution being in Christ. The Chinese believers call it identification. This is identification in the sufferings of Christ. This is their understanding of the cross of Christ. This is their understanding if picking up their cross o follow Jesus

But oh how we howl at the thought of a cross. How we cry gloom and doom at the thought of persecution. I am an American Christian. I will not be persecuted. Sermon Index should nit be sosting this gloomy stuff on persecution.

Saints may I say in love it is time for a reality check. We, American Christians, are the ones out of step with the rest of the world. The American church is in a bubble. American style Christianity is not New Testament Christianity. I say again, American style Christianity, is mot Biblical.

Brothers and sisters, in Eritrea or China, have more understanding of following Jesus than we in America do. They have the gospel. We don't. There's is gospel of sacrifice. Ours is a gospel of cheap grace. Our gospel has no price to pay.

Saints we need to face the reality that God gas spewed out the American church and found it lacking. The center of Christianity has shifted to the 1040 window. These are the saints that God is pleased with. These are the saints that God is using. And they gladly pay the price forme loving Jesus.

I do believe God has a remnant in N. America. Much like the church in Sardis. There will be a few who have not soiled their clothes. They will walk with Jesus dressed in white. They will be a holy, revived remnant. They will be a persecuted remnant. But they will be the true bride of Jesus. The question is. Will you be part of that remnant? Will I be part of that remnant?

Posted by Bearmaster.

 2012/6/17 11:30









 Re:

Well said brother bear.

 2012/6/17 11:42









 Re:

Quote:
The centre of Christianity has shifted to the 1040 window.

No, that simply is not true. It may look like it has but it has not.

It's not like it was in the Old Testament where God could leave a building or place, today He lives in men and women. He's made a covenant of grace with them that He would never leave them nor forsake them. Yes, the North American Churches have gone haywire, but God's people have not. Let those Churches go crazy if they like, Christianity does well in the midst of chaos, in the midst of sin and degradation, in the midst of troubles, where iniquity is abounding Christ much more abounds.

Christianity shines brighter when it gets really dark, it doesn't leave because things are getting worse, it stays because people need it more than ever before. The problem is folks is that while we are fighting amongst ourselves on who is right and who is wrong, sinners are dying without hearing the gospel.

They really want the simple gospel. They don't want religion and airs and hypocrisies, that is all they are seeing today on Television. And can we blame them? I wouldn't want nothing to do with God either if that is what Christianity is all about.

But God has a people that He is grooming that have a message from Him, that God so loves this world that He gave His only begotten Son and that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

He SOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooo loves this world. We think that God is angry with it, we forget that Christ died on the cross and the wrath of God was taken out on the Son. He bore our sorrow and grief when He died.

God is angry with the wicked, those who hide the truth in unrighteousness. They know the way but refuse to enter in and they hinder anyone else from going in as well, these people are wicked people and it's these people that God is angry with every day. These are not your Saddam Hussiens of the world, these are religious leaders within Christianity itself who know but don't heed.

We read the news and all we see is the bad,, but we need to back up and see a little differently. In Elijah's day, Jezebel ruled the nest. She allowed homosexuals to live freely, it was sex party heaven for the mind that was on evil continually, but out of all that Elijah thought that he was the only one left and God told him that He had reserved 7,000 men who did not bow their knee to Baal. This was goodnews, could we safely say that in this country that God has reserved 7 million or maybe even 700 million worldwide who have not bowed their knee to Baal?

 2012/6/17 13:53
roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777


 Re:

I am deeply distressed by harshly critical responses like this:

Quote:
If you are tired of gloom and doom posting you must really be tired of the Bible.


Please folks, read carefully the original poster’s words – and try to be sensitive to what he (or she) is saying. I post his words for further reflection:
Quote:
I guess the question we should ask when bringing up "doom and gloom" subjects is "What is the reaction we are looking for?" Because regardless of how innocent our intentions may be, many people may freak out or fret, neither of which is a godly reaction. Worry and fear drive people from the Lord, by defnition.
The danger with "doom and gloom" posting is that it creates "doom and gloom" thinking, which is something that Christians are decidedly NOT to engage in:



Gloominess can be driven by anxiety or discouragement, and that can make others depressed too. It may feel spiritual, biblical, – even God’s heart. It may seem far better than the other side of the fence: the health and wealth philosophy. (We here, generally speaking, do not wish to be one of those.) TMK, in view of this, I suspect that you struck our Achilles heel.

We are all immersed in a fear/anxiety driven culture. So maybe our bent that way is culturally influenced. But even if not, in the church doom and gloom has often been a means of motivating people. I see that here too: If I can get you to see how bad the world is, and how bad it’s going to be, I can get you to shape up. Unfortunately, as you say, this has a reverse effect – because it can drag others down and increase their sense of despair. Guilt is a bad motivator. It moves people towards a works doctrine.

I praise God, there are those among God’s people who are able to process deeply troublesome content and use it to stir others towards healing, faith, and hope. But, let’s admit, for many of us, and I include myself, this is an area for growth: growing in faith and learning to be sensitive to others.



https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=45304&forum=48&0

I posted this yesterday, and strongly encouraged readers to get to know this person, Canon Andrew White. He has seen severe persecution in his Iraqi church and has endured much suffering for Christ. By his example, he can teach us how to handle gloom and doom – and not only maintain sanity, but persevere effectively – in love for others. He has MS (which explains his slow speech) but he radiates such peace and joy that you find yourself dancing in your heart)

I have watched all the youtube clips and articles I can find (including Wikipedia) and have ordered some of his books. I say, may God send us more examples like the “Vicar of Baghdad.” I need them! And so do ye'all.

“Let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds. Let us not give up meeting together in cyberspace, but let us encourage each other – and all the more as you see the Day approaching?” Hebrews 10:24

What day?

Diane






_________________
Diane

 2012/6/17 17:53Profile









 Re: Aporived

Brother respectfully do you ready think American Christianity has the power of China or Iran. We read believers in India doing signs and wonders and our American churches won't acknowledge the Holy Spirit. We read of whole mosque turning to Christ in Africa. And American churches are saying its alright to worship with Moslems. Persecuted believers will spend hours a day reading the word. While we debate which is the one pure translation. The American church is filthy rich beyond anyone's wildest dreams. Yet poor garbage dump churches have power to say n the name of Jesus get up and walk.

Brother I go back to my original statement. God had judged the American church and found it lacking. It will br the 1040 saints who will complete the great commission. For sure there is a remnant in America. But the American church is not the sending church it once was. As a matter of fact third world countries are now sending missionaries over to Americs. One wonders what that says for the state of the American church.

Bearmaster.

 2012/6/17 17:59
MaryJane
Member



Joined: 2006/7/31
Posts: 3057


 Re:

Diane you wrote:Gloominess can be driven by anxiety or discouragement, and that can make others depressed too. It may feel spiritual, biblical, – even God’s heart. It may seem far better than the other side of the fence: the health and wealth philosophy. (We here, generally speaking, do not wish to be one of those.) TMK, in view of this, I suspect that you struck our Achilles heel.

We are all immersed in a fear/anxiety driven culture. So maybe our bent that way is culturally influenced. But even if not, in the church doom and gloom has often been a means of motivating people. I see that here too: If I can get you to see how bad the world is, and how bad it’s going to be, I can get you to shape up. Unfortunately, as you say, this has a reverse effect – because it can drag others down and increase their sense of despair. Guilt is a bad motivator. It moves people towards a works doctrine.


---------------

I agree with what you shared here. Guilt does little to point a person to CHRIST, in fact in my experience using guilt does more harm then anything else.

Thank you for sharing
God bless
mj

 2012/6/17 19:09Profile





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