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staff
Member



Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 2227


 Re:

Hi Bearmaster,
I refer you to my post to brother Frank but can I add that whoever sounds a warning of an upcoming persecution will be labelled as gloom and doomers whether they are right or wrong.
So just because they are being called doom and gloomers from the happy feel good gospel preachers doesn't mean that they are correct about a persecution coming,
Yours Staff

 2012/6/16 18:07Profile









 Re:

I understand how you feel MrBillPro & I do know what you're saying, but we are to spur one another on to be more like Christ - period. To follow Him with all we have according to the scriptures. To spur each other on in the inspired words of Jesus, Paul, John, Peter, James, etc. (not to even mention the OT prophets). You never answered my question, but seem to be avoiding it to tell us that we can all be different - in whatever way we choose to do (right in our own eyes). But since you brought up the scripture on thinking and meditating on pure, noble, good report, & lovely things, which tv shows have you found that encourage you in that and line up? I don't want drama, but I want you to consider things on light of scripture:
Prophetic warnings (of "doom and glOom") = Bad
Tv shows = good?
I know you do what you feel in your heart is ok (while criticizing those burning with passion and zeal to prophetically warn the Body), but don't you know the heart is deceitfully wicked above all things?
All I ask is for you to show by the scriptures (not how you feel) evidence against the numerous scriptures I and others have shared here, & tell me which tv shows are feeding your inner man. You can't criticize brothers/sisters consecrating themselves to God, wholly devoting themselves to the Word and prayer, while watching tv, and not backing up one single criticism with what God says about the matter (in His Word).
Wake up brother. God loves you and is calling you to carry a cross, consecrate yourself to Him, & love not the world, nor anything in the world. I know "what you think" & "how you feel", but in all love brother, it really doesn't mean anything. It matters not how any of us feel, what we think, etc. All that matters is how does God feel about the matter. What does God think? What does His Word say? He is no respective of persons. Me, you, Rick Warren, Joel Ostern, Leonard Ravenhill, and The Apostle Paul will all stand before God at the judgement seat. No drama. No judgement. No criticism. Love. True Love warns and exhorts. Fake love says "Relax, take it easy, it will all be OK". That's a lie from hell. Don't buy it or you'll pay for it eternally. If you could hear my heart weeping inside at the thought of all the deception, you'd know I'm not mad, proud, crazy, or foolish. Just a fool for Christ's sake by the Grace of God!!

 2012/6/16 18:10
MrBillPro
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3422
Texas

 Re:

I can see it now, "IF" there was a Purgatory, folks arriving at two gates, and the gatekeepers saying ok folks, all you folks that listened to the happy feel good pastors enter here, all you that listened to the doom and gloom pastors enter here. I have a feeling there would be a mass exodus out of one line. :)


_________________
Bill

 2012/6/16 18:14Profile









 Re: Staff

Brother I believe that is what this upcomming conference is about. Brothers such as Greg and others being moved by the Holy Spirit to wake and warn the body in America of what is coming. Men such as David Wilkerson, Art Katz, Denny Kenniston, and others moved by the Spirit have warned the American church of what is coming. That being judgement via persecution.

I would say, out of a brotherly concern, to you and others, look at the 1040 window. Believers are dying daily and suffering for Christ. Why should America be exempt from persecution. It is going to come.

Ok. So maybe I am not moved by the Holy Spirit in posting this. But look at the New Testament. It is Spirit inspired. Jesus did promise rest and peace for those who came to him. But he also promised a cross. And the Jews of his day knew what a cross was. The Romans dotted the Judean countryside to instill Roman Justice.

We as believers, even in America, have been called to carry that same cross. God grant us the grace to do so.

Bearnaster.

 2012/6/16 18:21
MrBillPro
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3422
Texas

 Re:

Quote:
jeffmar...I know you do what you feel in your heart is ok (while criticizing those burning with passion and zeal to prophetically warn the Body), but don't you know the heart is deceitfully wicked above all things?.



criticizing? I think you have me mixed up with you, read my post then read yours. I personally think most folks would feel yours are more critical towards a brother than mine, mine are just plain spoke truth,not scripture. Why do we always need scripture? did Jesus just quote scripture his whole 33 years to get a message to folks? I think not, heck he may have even broke into a good belly laugh at times, that probably really freaked out all the doom and gloomers at that time standing around.


_________________
Bill

 2012/6/16 18:23Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7534
Mississippi

 Re:

If anyone thinks I welcome torture with its accompanying pain, you are grossly mistaken. You do not know me at all.

When I was growing up "Martyr's Mirror" was read by the elders and dad owned one and thought highly of it. Its pictures totally grossed me out and made me scared. Really scared.

When I was birthing our oldest child, these pains were so severe. I was a small woman birthing a large child - doctor said later I should have had a c-section. Anyhow, those pains were so bad I was sure if anyone would impose any pains on me like this for my faith, I may give up! Really! It was not funny. I could not stop it, it was relentless.
I know personally something about severe pain, so severe you screamed. (Fortunately, for me this was the last time I experienced anything so painful - went on to have four more children. My husband did consider me crazy when I let him know several months later that I want another child after witnessing this labor.)

After I became a mom, had children, I refused to sing verse two of "Faith of Out Fathers Living Still". It goes like this:

Our fathers chained in prisons dark
Were still in heart and conscience free
How sweet would be their children's fate
If they like them ,
Could die for Thee!
Faith of our fathers ! Holy faith!
We will be true, to Thee till death!

I could NOT ever imagine looking at children and consider it sweet if they were to die for their faith!

Fast forward - we have two children who do not know the LORD. They are respectable people but do not know the LORD. As I consider their eternal destiny without God I just about go crazy...now I look at this song with new and different eyes and I can sing it.

I have at this stage in life accepted the reality that once or if persecution would come, God will be with us, help us to endure to the end. We can in our imagination feel what torture would be like and lose faith. But I choose not to go there in my imagination because God is not giving me the grace to endure it at the moment. But He is giving me confidence that he will sustain our faith IF want it. And it begins now.

My testimony for whatever it is worth...


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2012/6/16 18:23Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 6650
NC, USA

 Re:

I certainly recognize that there are many many warnings in Scripture. I get that.

I guess here is my point:

When I read a post that a great persecution is coming; that a great holocaust against Christians is coming; that there is very good chance I will be martyred if I live long enough, etc etc etc, what should my response be?

I am not supposed to "freak out" or fear, or even fret.

So what should we do? Assuming we are seeking after the Lord, and we are in prayer, and in the Word, what more are we to do? Walmart doesn't sell sackcloth suits, although I could probably scoop up some ashes from the fire pit.

Perhaps this is what bothers me the most about posts stressing the bad stuff that is coming... a seeming lack of practical suggestions (beyond being in the Word, being in prayer, and seeking after the Lord). If we are living the life of a disciple of Christ, then we automatically SHOULD be ready for whatever may transpire.

That being said, I can see that the goal of a "doom and gloom" post (and I do apologize for the term, I just couldn't think of anything better) may be to spur on Christians to a deeper discipleship. Of course there are other ways to do this, but I guess I see the value in it.

When I listen to Art Katz, and he talks about coming persecution etc, it is not the fear of persecution that drives me to deeper discipleship; it is because Art makes me want to do so for GOD's sake and His sake alone. He DESERVES my all, whether tomorrow is going to be a bed of roses or a bed of nails.


_________________
Todd

 2012/6/16 18:25Profile
proudpapa
Member



Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 Re:

"Walmart doesn't sell sackcloth suits"

Actually Walmart does sell sackcloth it is in the Fabric Isle. LOL

 2012/6/16 18:29Profile









 Re: TMK

Read a VOM magazine and I think you will find the answer to your question. Also pray for the persecuted and the Spirit will give you insight.

Bear.

 2012/6/16 18:34









 Re: Ginnyrose

Is it true the Mennonite church no longer reads Martyrs Mirror in their services?

Bear.

 2012/6/16 18:36





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