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 Re:

Brother Tom. I just heard about a young Korean sister. She is 26 years old. She had completed a discipleship program at a YWAM base. She burns with a desire to take the gospel to N. Korea.

Now I am sure this sister knows the dangers that await her.. She probably knows the average life expectancy of an evangelist in that country is about three months. Yet her heart is consumed to see the light of Christ penetrate the darkness of N. Korea. Not someone given to doom and gloom.

Bearmaster.

 2012/6/18 12:04
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7534
Mississippi

 Re:

I recall Brother Richard Wurmbrand saying how they would take converts to the zoo (in Romania), showing them the lions. In doing so they taught them that if they made the decision to follow Jesus they may likely be thrown to them, just like Daniel was. These people were taught they may have to die for their decision.

Not a bad idea, IMHO....


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2012/6/18 16:21Profile
roadsign
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Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777


 Re:

Quote:
sometimes there seems to be a certain glee in talking about how bad things are going to get and a seeming hope that things WILL get really really bad really soon."



I don’t think this is an unreasonable observation. It is human nature to delight in justice over mercy. It is natural to crave justice for the criminal. We often see this on the news. A victim will not be satisfied or happy again until justice has been measured out. Also, there can be a temptation to be vindictive – especially if we have some latent anger or bitterness, having been a victim of sin against us. Seeing justice for the sinners can indeed give us a sense of glee!

Here’s another consideration: What if God pours mercy on our land; and all our warnings about impending disaster are proved wrong? I think of the Pharisees who had a hard time accepting Jesus’ mercy on the sinner. Their thinking was driven by a punitive mindset. So why would it be any different today within the religious community?

Or could it be that we need those disaster/judgments to prove us right and thus to preserve our pride? And, let’s admit, being right is one of our most cherished idols.


Just curious: Has anyone checked into Canon Andrew White – the Vicar of Baghdad? What do you think of God’s mercy raining down on – even Muslims? Even these people are recipients of divine miracles – healings, raising of the dead, etc. To see some Muslims be blessed by God surely seems strange – especially when they have not yet been converted.


Oh….. Does anyone have more comments on my earlier reference to holy vs unholy treatment of "gloom-and-doom" - that is, troublesome information?


Diane



_________________
Diane

 2012/6/18 17:41Profile









 Before annihilation, the early church was warned, and heeded the gloom and doom deliverance.

Pentecost occurred 50 days after Passover, the Crucifixion of Christ; AD 33. Jesus Himself walked on Earth for 40 of those days, instructing many, and was bodily Resurrected in the presence of over 500 disciples into Heaven. This must have made the mere 10 day wait at the upper room very exciting, they had been with the one who was dead but lives forevermore.

Titus, the Roman general then marched in, with four Roman Legions, putting down a Jewish revolt. The rebellion proved costly to Jerusalem in AD 70: In the Destruction of Jerusalem 1,100,000 Jews were killed and 97,000 taken into slavery and captivity.

There is much evidence that the Jerusalem church were pondering ideas just like we are here, in this gloom and doom thread. We are talking about 37 years, in our time line Pentecost occurred in 1975.

But the people of the church in Jerusalem had been commanded by a revelation, vouchsafed to approved men there before the war, to leave the city and to dwell in a certain town of Perea called Pella. " (History of the Church 3:5:3)

"The whole body, however, of the church at Jerusalem, having been commanded by a divine revelation, given to men of approved piety there before the war, removed from the city, and dwelt at a certain town beyond the Jordan, called Pella.

Here those that believed in Christ, having removed from Jerusalem, as if holy men had entirely abandoned the royal city itself, and the whole land of Judea; the divine justice, for their crimes against Christ and his apostles finally overtook them, totally destroying the whole generation of these evildoers form the earth. (Eusebius, 3:5.).....[http://www.preteristarchive.com/StudyArchive/p/pella-flight.html

It seems that the Spirit was speaking to the church as a whole, and possibly 50,000 to 100,000 saints fled the city before Titus entered, being warned. Some archives insist that an angel of God appeared and spoke in a heavenly vision, others speak of prophetic utterances warning.

The fact remains that many Christians took heed, and as the fled persecution, were delivered. 37 years is not so long to me. It happened, as several very early church fathers testify, and is worthy of consideration in the light of this thread.



 2012/6/18 19:50









 Re:

Even the Catholic Church is aware of a future persecution of Americans. I was doing a search for past persecutions in American history and I came across this interesting thought. Don't get carried away with the margin, I agree with none of it, however this article is interesting.

http://catholicknight.blogspot.ca/2011/11/vatican-official-sees-persecution-of.html

 2012/6/18 20:08
pilgrim777
Member



Joined: 2011/9/30
Posts: 1211


 Re:

Interesting! Catholic Zealots.

A Loyal Reader said...
If the priests, Bishops and Cardinals are not ready and willing to suffer persecution and even martyrdom,- dry, wet, green or social,- then how does anyone expect the people to accept it? We Catholics have always been counter-cultural in the ages of Faith. Our recent complicity with the culture has caused the loss of identity and sense of union with the generations past, who accepted persecution and even martyrdom as just part of being Catholic. Let's rediscover what it means to be "the light of the World"!!!

And this, "Don't be too quick to be a martyr".

Anonymous said...
UK Catholic .....Don’t be volunteering others for martyrdom unless you are sure you could go to the gallows alongside them. I see no need for a rush to martyrdom - read what the English martyrs went through (hung drawn and quartered) then tell me you want to be first in the queue. Go to the Nazi camps and see the photos they took of all who marched into the gas chambers alongside the Jews – Catholic priests and monks in droves. No-one goes to that willingly and none of us will know if we have that kind of courage until the very split second we are challenged. The current situation is undoubtedly serious in terms of the pressures being exerted against Catholics – worldwide (and CK has hit on a very important issue here). Our bishops and priests here in the UK have spoken out as mentioned above so I personally have seen no lack of courage on their part. Christ taught us to respond to all aggression and sin with Love. It is possible to mistake this gentle approach with complicity, but I also think that it’s best to study the opposition before showing your hand and speaking out. However I agree that silence can be mistaken for consent, but as far as I am aware the church leaders have made their position very clear on most of the major moral issues of the day. We must also beware not only of attacks from outside the church but also of self inflicted wounds – attacking our own without reason. We must be wary not to demoralise the many good priest we do have left by too much “nagging”..........they are already taking quite a beating from external forces so try not to add to their burdens.

 2012/6/18 20:16Profile









 Re:

Well let me be the first to say that I don't know how well I would stand up to persecution. I have taken a lot of beatings before and endured it. I found that by letting the person do whatever it was needed to get their anger out of their system to use me as a punching bag and when I didn't kick back they stopped. It's been a long time since those days and I have gotten soft in my old age (45).

The thought of torture is terrifying. Being shot or hanged is a mercy killing, it's quick and doesn't last long. But to be tortured and kept alive is beyond my comprehension. God knows that I might cave in to the pressure. Why would He put someone through such rigorous testing if they will in the end deny Him?

That is my greatest fear, will I deny my Lord, I hope and pray that I will not.

It's valiant to be able to throw yourself in front of a moving train if it meant to save others, and I hope that I would. Richard Wumbrand withstood such terrible things, even to the place of being delirious and having almost completely forgot about God if it wasn't for God bringing him the scriptures to his mind. Even Watchman Nee having been put through such rigorous brain washings at the end scribbled on a piece of paper saying, "I still believe that Jesus is the Son of God". I don't believe for a moment that he straightened up his backbone as some hero of the faith, I think the man was totally weakened by the constant harassments and out of that weakened state made his final declaration before leaving this world that with all that brain washing foolishness they failed in their attempt to change this man of God.

I am weak but thou art strong.

 2012/6/18 20:38









 


1Pe 4:14 If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified.



From A.T. Robertson's [Greek] Word Pictures:

"Resteth upon you" (eph' hēmas anapauetai). Quotation from Isaiah 11:2. Present middle indicative of anapauō, to give rest, refresh (Matt 11:28). “He rests upon the Christian as the Shechinah rested upon the tabernacle” (Bigg). Cf. 1Pet 1:8"



 2012/6/18 20:51









 Re:

Basically rbanks, you're telling me that your a "cessationist"? In your mind, have All the gifts and offices except "Senior/Associate/Youth Pastor" (not in the Bible) somehow ceased to exist? Is it that By your estimation there may be only 5 real prophets in the whole world now, or none cause you don't believe God raises them up at all anymore? Yes, there are tons of false prophets speaking from the belly of their own flesh. There are tons of so-called wanna be prophets. Who sent them? The enemy. Why? So people would see the counterfeit and totally throw out the baby with the bath water. The enemy's plan works if you just toss it all out based on the counterfeit.
You never see anyone counterfeit manure. Or counterfeit bread. They are of little value in the first place. Counterfeiters counterfeit real things that have great value like hundred dollar bills and gold. Never see counterfeit pennies! Why do that? More trouble than it's worth! The devil gets people's flesh to counterfeit gold cause it's worth something when genuine.
I would recommend you look up an article from John Piper about "OT prophets vs NT prophets." Also, Art Katz has lots of REALLY good sermons on the True NT Prophetic Ministry. Look up "Prophets", "Prophetic", "True..." etc. in Katz' sermon listings. Some real gems.
Also, your evaluation of NT prophets in Acts has some things you haven't considered. For one thing, it says in I Corinthians 13, "Now we see in part". NT Prophetic ministry isn't the same as OT prophets. In fact, not even All OT Prophet accounts were of "someone saying something would come to pass and it did right/soon after". Daniel saw things that still haven't been fulfilled. How long did Noah prophesy & build that boat? I don't remember exactly, but I know it was at least 40 years (I think it was actually longer). David, Isaiah, Jeremiah, and many others prophesied about the coming Messiah that didn't get fulfilled for hundreds of years after. Many others like Amos, Joel, etc. had dual layered fulfillment prophesies (one fulfillment years later in Israel AND a second fulfillment where the natural type was fulfilled in a spiritual reality in the last days concerning the church, spiritual Israel).
In addition to these examples and many more, consider Jesus' prophesying over Jerusalem about its downfall that didn't come until decades later. Also, even the story I mentioned earlier about the prophesying in Acts of a famine: you're ASSUMING this was like prophesied one day and fulfilled the next. If we read God's Word like this, we will err greatly. The Bible is not a list of events that happened on consecutive minute, hour, & day chronological time schedules. There are many places in scripture where years, even decades, elapse between one verse to the very next one.
Besides, Art Katz saw a great Holocaust coming ahead for years and died never seeing it come to pass. I consider Art a true prophet. David Wilkerson saw a vision of coming catastrophe in glimpses as far back as the 70's, & I certainly don't consider David a false prophet. The burden came so strong again a few years later he felt like it could come tomorrow. I know many who the Lord burdened the same way. I don't know where you get your ideas for what classifies modern prophets, but in love, it's not the Bible, cause there's no support for what you stated.
We need Gods Word to be our guide. I have love for the Body, and I challenge you to prove what you assumed of prophets from scripture. You can't cause such statements are not in there. Art Katz' teachings on prophets from Gods Word are powerful. He can preach/teach/explain it better than I ever could. God Bless

 2012/6/19 2:45
staff
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Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 2227


 Re: sermonindex rules

Wheres the zero tolerance?

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 2012/6/19 5:06Profile





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