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 Re:

We'll just have to disagree on this. :-)

Krispy

 2012/6/7 15:11
gators52
Member



Joined: 2011/9/21
Posts: 63
Central Florida

 Re:

Actually Krispy, Robert pretty much made his point in most of what he says while u just defer to the same line pretty much all the time... Agree to disagree. It seems in our day of so much theology we would have cast the repentant thief into hell because he didn't fit into our framework of theology. I'm pretty sure he wasn't worried about TULIP.... Thank the Lord for sending the Holy Spirit.


_________________
Brian

 2012/6/7 15:33Profile









 Re:

I must not have said anything about reformed theology in awhile because you sure took the long road around the mountain in order to get a slam in on it....

That was quite a leap. Stay put... I'll call Guiness!

:-)

Krispy

 2012/6/7 15:59
kjcword
Member



Joined: 2012/4/2
Posts: 27


 Re:

Actually Krispy wasn't referring to salvation, but qualifications for ministry.

 2012/6/7 17:16Profile
pilgrim777
Member



Joined: 2011/9/30
Posts: 1211


 Re:

Swaggart disqualified himself from shepherding the Lord's people with his 2nd and 3rd incident and his continued rebellion against those he said he was in mutual submission to. The Assemblies of God truly wanted to minister deliverance and restoration to him, but he would have none of their biblical discipline. This rebellious spirit was manifested in his 2nd and 3rd incidents in 1990 and 1991. Is there anything really more to say, than the man needs prayer and he needs truth spoken to him.

At one time his ministry brought in 150 million a year but now he is millions in debt and lost 80% of his congregation. In 1988, many students in his Jimmy Swaggart Bible School, did not return in the fall to register.

Don't you think all these people realized something was wrong?

It is better to fall on the mercy of God rather than take things into your own hands. The leadership of the Assemblies of God back in 1988, was the mercy of God! They had his best interests at heart and wanted to help him and prevent further fractures in the Body of Christ.

He decided to become an authority unto himself. The rest is just a sad history of what happens when you do that.

Is there no example here for all of us to take heed to and learn from?

Pilgrim

 2012/6/7 18:22Profile









 Re:

Quote:
Is there no example here for all of us to take heed to and learn from?



flee babylon.

 2012/6/7 18:26
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
Is there no example here for all of us to take heed to and learn from?



Yes. And I think a great many of us here have learned it as best as we have revelation. I'm just not the man to cast the first stone. I'll let you fellas do that.


_________________
Robert Wurtz II

 2012/6/7 18:39Profile
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

Getting back on topic.

Here, again, is the text in question from the Expositor's New Testament for Matthew 16;24ff.


Here is the layout of the passage with spaces to show the verse and then the comment.

_________

24: Then said Jesus unto His disciples, if any man come after me let him deny Himself.

comment: (not asceticism, but rather the denial of ones own strength and ability)

24b: and take up his cross,

comment: (the benefits of the cross, what Jesus did there [Col. 2:14-15].

24c: and follow me

comment: (if Christ is not followed by means of the cross, He cannot be followed at all).

25: For whosoever will save his life shall lose it

comment: (tries to live his life outside the cross; it can only be lived through the cross)

25b: whosoever shall lose his life for my sake shall find it.

comment: (lose his life to Christ, which means to give his life to Christ, which can only be done through the cross; he then finds "newness of life" (Romans 6:3-5).


_________________
Robert Wurtz II

 2012/6/7 18:44Profile
pilgrim777
Member



Joined: 2011/9/30
Posts: 1211


 Re:

Quote:
Yes. And I think a great many of us here have learned it as best as we have revelation. I'm just not the man to cast the first stone. I'll let you fellas do that.



I have spoken to my children and others of Cain murdering Abel, Aaron's sons offering strange fire, Eli's profane sons, David murdering Uriah, Judas betraying Jesus and so on and in none of these cases have I ever "thrown stones" as I see the propensity in me to do all these things.

And I have also not been smug and judgmental to brothers that discuss where these men may have taken the first wrong turn and what they might do to be restored.

Pilgrim

 2012/6/7 18:53Profile
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
24b: and take up his cross,

comment: (the benefits of the cross, what Jesus did there [Col. 2:14-15].

24c: and follow me

comment: (if Christ is not followed by means of the cross, He cannot be followed at all).



We have Paul:

I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. (Galatians 2:20)

Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. (Romans 6:6)

Paul explains that this reality is made possible by baptism into Christ by the Spirit. They that have the Spirit have been baptized into HIS death. He explains further:

But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world. (Galatians 6:14)

It is what Christ completed on the cross, the Saints having been baptized into Him, that makes possible our death to both Sin (the dynamic) and this present evil world. Paul explains an even more radical way:

Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. (Colossians 3:2, 3)

We are in Christ andChrist is in God. All that He accomplished on the cross is made effectual to us that are IN Him. As surely as we were slaves to Sin in Adam, we are freed from the bondage of Sin through being baptized into the last Adam by the Spirit. As surely as we were constituted sinners by Adam's fall, we are now constituted righteous by Christ's victory over Sin at Calvary.


_________________
Robert Wurtz II

 2012/6/7 18:55Profile





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