I do not believe in limited atonement as some teach but I believe Jesus made atonement for all mankind. I believe infants are atoned for until they reach an age of accountability that whereby they sin willfully with a knowledge of right from wrong. Jesus said suffer the little children to come unto me for of such are the kingdom of Heaven.

RE rbanks Wrote "I do not believe in limited atonement as some teach but I believe Jesus made atonement for all mankind. I believe infants are atoned for until they reach an age of accountability that whereby they sin willfully with a knowledge of right from wrong. Jesus said suffer the little children to come unto me for of such are the kingdom of Heaven."

AMEN!!

For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous

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"I grant freely that the theory of "plenary verbal inspiration," involves some difficulties. I do not pretend to answer all the objections brought against it, or to defend all that has been written by its supporters. I am content to remember that all inspiration is a miraculous operation of the Holy Ghost, and, like every operation of the Holy Ghost, must needs be mysterious." - John Charles Ryle

Was God Adams biological father?

Who is Adams spirit father in whom he believed?

Who is all of mankinds original bilogical father?

Was Jesus created or birthed bilogical of His Father?

Before I was saved my father Adam passed on to me who I was, birthed in sin, and surely will die, by the curse.

After God put His Seed in Mary, Jesus was birthed all God and all man. The only way He could die was to lay down His life for those that are now God's children, Jesus also by His own power could take His life up again.

Now that we are saved by the incorruptable Seed of the Father rebirthed in us by Grace through Faith, "that not of ourselves", we are now the same as Christ is in Spirit becoming the same in soul/mind and will be the same as He is in resurrection, this is the hight calling of God we strive according to His working, which works in us mightily and towards, which we don't know exactily what that will be, but as He is so will we be and as He is so are we in this world, but still have a blessing of this dying flesh being put in the ground as a corn of wheat and will bring forth fruit as Jesus said. Except those that are alive at His coming for His bride, who will be changed in the twinkling of and eye and will be taken to be Jesus forever, in His an now, our Father's House with many mansions.

Just some more fuel for the questions asked on this subject. The Word says the Holy Spirit will reveal who Jesus is and won't speak of Himself, but only what Jesus gives Him, The Holy Spirit to say to us, and if we don't understand the Holy Spirit will reveal even this to us.


In Christ: Phillip

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"Christ in you the Hope of Glory" "The life I now live in the flesh, I live by the faith of the Son of God."

Hi! ChristInYou
Ummm, I honestly don't mean to appear rude. I have to first ask the question of whether you want/need a point-by-point response to your multi-questions. I don't wish to waste time and effort to answer something you merely asked half-hazardly.

You asked the following:
1. Was God Adams biological father?
2. Who is Adams spirit father in whom he believed?
3. Who is all of mankinds original bilogical father?
4. Was Jesus created or birthed bilogical of His Father?

You also accompanied the above questions with the comment:
"Before I was saved my father Adam passed on to me who I was, birthed in sin, and surely will die, by the curse."

While I'm awaiting your advice as to whether you sincerely anticipate the above questions to be answered, I'll try to give you an answer concerning your claim that "Adam passed on to me who I was, birthed in sin".

Your confession that all men are conceived in sin is incorrect.

It's of great importance to have a scripturally clear image of the deeds of creation pertaining to our origin.

Unfortunately there are some who have a very limited imagining of their beginnings and about the marvelous exciting things within the heart of God at their birth.

Our beginnings were conceived in the very heart of God; in God's being and from the depths of God. John 1:1 says, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by Him, and without Him was not anything made that was made".

In God "the Word" was formed and that 'word' is the substance of all things which were to be. God worked on a plan. In His inner self a fantastically marvelous idea evolved; a thought containing all. And it was with God. It was hidden with God as a yet an unspoken thought. The word was with God; the word was God. In the beginning, this word was with God and all things came to be of that word, (this thought), and became the basis of God's plan.

The Apostle John stated that without this Word was not anything made that was made. That plan, that unspoken word, is what formed the beginning. Before God spoke one word, that word - meaning the complete plan of God - was in Him, and God had thought of everything, (including even the smallest details), and considered and concluded to Himself: This is it! This is the plan I will accomplish.

A proper insight into our origins affords a view of our completion. The reverse is also true. Our majestic completion confirms our splendid origin.

So, 'ChristInYou', again I repeat to you that insight into the original plan and purposes of God with man is extremely important. If we understand what God's original intentions were, it is possible to recognize and realize everything that differs. It is a proper focus on the original which allows us a proper view of the conclusion when pondering the eternal purposes of God. God continues to work and carries out His plans from out of His original intentions. His actions are always based on the "word that is from the beginning" and are aimed to complete realization of that word, that plan.

Therefore, it's urgent that we orientate our minds to Scripture so that we can properly answer the questions: Where are we from? Where are we going?

John 1:1 says, "In the beginning was the Word". This verse tells us about the time preceding Genesis 1:1. The creator started executing His plan only after everything concerning this plan had completely matured. God didn't start on impulse. He prepared everything in an uninterrupted peace and confidence. Not surprisingly, this posture characterizes His very being. God is absolutely confident about His plan. It is because of this that His work can never be hindered.

What did God think? What did the word contain? Can we hear and understand it? Amos 4:13 tells us that, "God, declareth unto man what is His thought". While we are presently unable to be entirely complete about this, we do however have valuable insights. We can, from the works of God, construct the original plan of God. Therefore, we now understand that God wanted to give from Himself; He wanted us to be a part of Him. God wanted a partner to whom He could give Himself completely in love and in whom He could rejoice until eternity passed. This partner would be able to return His love and have an enormous amount of possibilities and thus God would never lose interest in him. This partner would be able to be a part of all of God's plans.

This partner, of whom God was thinking, would be on His level. A partner able to live in an atmosphere of pure love and who would, from out of their free will, dedicate all their created abilities and talents to a relationship in complete dependence on God. God wasn't thinking of a second God, but He thought of a worthy partner that would fit Him perfectly and harmoniously. A woman to God, after His image and likeness. We could describe it as "complementary" to God; completely belonging to one another in being and works.

God pictured Himself a being that would fulfill all His needs. He saw a being with unimaginable, never ending possibilities. A being with a heart that could love Him. A being that could develop in many respects, in quality and quantity. A being that would manifest itself in infinite variations and in many personalities so God would be able to manifest Himself completely in him. A being in whom God could be "all in all", (1Cor 15:28). This total of personalities could live together formed as one. Each individually and together forming a unity in a love relationship with God. This was the substance of God's motivation and to which everything visible and invisible evolved. This would come forth from Him to be created by Him and exist for the glory of His blessedness.

Of what being was God thinking? God was thinking of man; of you and me. All of God's plans and purposes are based on that thought: on God's longing for man. It was man, who would be created as "God's son"; born from God, and to God, and would grow into an adult son. Man, with his (by God) created potential to grow into a mankind, who as God's wife would live with Him until eternity.

In order to acquire this woman, God created everything that would be needed. In His thoughts He prepared the greatest work possible. A perfect work. A creation, a grand godly creation. Since the beginning God had us envisioned. There would be a heaven and an earth, richly and abundantly provided with all possibilities and means to prepare that man for his godly destiny. It is for that purpose that God created the heaven and the earth, (Gen.1:1).

From that very moment of that God said "Let us make man" until now, God hasn't changed and neither will He ever change. Our God continues to work firmly on the complete realization of all that was with Him in the beginning. At every moment, God sees that potential candidate in you and me, -that unique being-, that is destined to mature and develop into that godly level where we are revealed as the bride of God and in whom God is all things in all.

The first thing we notice about Genesis 1 is that God does not do everything at once. Rather, God chose to pursue a unique principle of growth and development which offered unprecedented and unlimited possibilities. It is through this godly principle that God realizes His plan.

God wanted to acquire His partner. If God had created a partner ready-made, there wouldn't have been anything to "acquire". So, through the growth and development of talents that were created by God, man could enter into a close relationship with God and evolve into a mature independent being. This independent being could volunteer to follow after God's intentions and needs with all that is in him through free will and love.

With God exists total calmness, complete security and unshakable faith in His own plan and work which is accompanied by an inexhaustible amount of energy. It is good to remind ourselves constantly of this. We should both respect and honor God in this and also find the basis for our own life in this knowledge. We are invited to cooperate with God's ultimate intentions for us from out of this same calmness and security. God's work will reach completion in our lives, for God wants it. God will succeed!

'ChristInYou', Do you see where I'm going with this? I want to clearly show you that your thinking about your origins is completely opposite to the thoughts of God towards you.

I will happily continue the comments further if you think it could help you better understand things. But I don't want to be spending time and effort for nothing. So, please let me know if you want me to continue with this explanation and also if you wish your questions answered. I'd be more than happy to contribute an answer if I would at least know that that is what you were sincerely asking with your Post.

dear blayne,i think that you might have missed some scripture on the way to forming your opinion. those that believe not are condemned already... also, for one mans sin, sin entered the world and for ones righteousness ... Jesus conquered sin on the cross and death by being raised from the dead.we must be into Him by faith though grace and know Him in an intimate way to partake in the gospel promises.... depart from me you workers of iniquity for I never knew you.it is very simple, we owe a price we cannot pay and He paid a cost He did not owe. we apropriate this trough our believing in Him and His finished work.jimp we all are somewhat skewed.(except me of course.lol

Hi! Jimp
I'm sorry but I don't have a clue what I may have Posted to prompt this comment by you. I'm still breathless by how I could be so misunderstood by you.
I don't disagree with anything you contained in your comment/reply.
However, while your statement(s) might appear to ring true at first glance, they nonetheless remain (at least in my opinion) disjointed and incompatible to the whole of Scripture.

You quoted the Scripture: "Those that believe not are condemned already".
I immediately want to ask, "Condemned by who?".
But I suppose that this is yet another subject we might want to discuss on another day.

Yes, it is indeed Biblical that sin entered the world through one man.
--> Depending on how one chooses to define the meaning of the term sin in this particular reference greatly affects the value imputed to your statement.

You wrote: "Jesus conquered sin on the Cross and death by being raised from the dead".
---> Do you know that Jesus was crucified spiritually as well as physically? (Compare Mark 15:22 and Revelation 11:7). This truth is revealed in the Parable of the Pearl.

You see what I am meaning to say?
There isn't sufficient room in this Forum to be precise and exact about everything; otherwise everyone would be needing to compose a book to portray their thoughts.
The Bible oftentimes reads like the facets of a diamond and the entire brilliance of the treasures in it cannot possibly be contained under a single thread of thought or within a single subject line.
It's near impossible to answer every question held by every heart and mind here. Most times all most of us do here is hurry through a rapid reply. And even when we do manage to submit something lengthy to perhaps explain things better, it hardly will be suitable for everyone.
:)

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by jimp on 2012/5/30 1:09:38

dear blayne,i think that you might have missed some scripture on the way to forming your opinion. those that believe not are condemned already... also, for one mans sin, sin entered the world and for ones righteousness ... Jesus conquered sin on the cross and death by being raised from the dead.we must be into Him by faith though grace and know Him in an intimate way to partake in the gospel promises.... depart from me you workers of iniquity for I never knew you.it is very simple, we owe a price we cannot pay and He paid a cost He did not owe. we apropriate this trough our believing in Him and His finished work.jimp we all are somewhat skewed.(except me of course.lol
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dear blayne, if Jesus died spiritually, He would have ceased being very God as well as very man. this is a real problem when God stops being God and becomes subserving of His creation. this doctrine is the worst and my old friend ken hagins followers are spreading this error also. nobdy is perfect but this might be the worse doctrine to ever come out of mans imagination.jimp

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A Just balance and scales belong to the Lord. All the weights of the bag are His concern

Do men sin because they are sinners or are they sinners because they sin ???

Just my two cents: I would say men sin because we are sinners...you do not have to teach a young child to sin...it is in his/her very nature...we sin because it is in our nature...we are born sinners, therefore, we do not become sinners once we sin, for we are already dipped in the sinners oil, so to speak. hope this makes sense.

Hi! Jimp

How 'bout I explain it this way:

Is the unrepentant sinner spiritually dead?
I believe your answer would be "Yes" because this fact is plainly stated in Ephesians 2:1 where it says: "And you did he make alive, when ye were dead through your trespasses and sins".
Therefore, the following questions become answered:
Did Jesus not spiritually die after taking on Himself OUR trespasses and sins? Did Jesus not pay the wages of our sins? And, what does the Bible say about the wages of sin? "The wages of sin is death".

You see, Jimp. You probably didn't even understand what I was trying to say right from the start. Nevertheless, you hurried to accuse me of following some bizarre error assigned to Ken Hagin.

Listen, Jimp, you don't have to blindly agree with my Posts; I wouldn't ask you or anyone else to do that. However, you shouldn't be so eager to dismiss someone's opinion without at least making some attempt to seriously examine it.
I myself read every word you have addressed to me. I never sit here thinking that your thoughts are somehow devilish or of no value.
Yes, there are some thoughts of yours that I may not instantly agree with. That's not a problem for me because I came here to share and learn ... not to dictate to someone.

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by jimp on 2012/5/30 2:22:44

dear blayne, if Jesus died spiritually, He would have ceased being very God as well as very man. this is a real problem when God stops being God and becomes subserving of His creation. this doctrine is the worst and my old friend ken hagins followers are spreading this error also. nobdy is perfect but this might be the worse doctrine to ever come out of mans imagination.jimp

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