What is your view of St Augustines Doctrine of Original sin ?? A change in my understanding of the subject greatly changed my life!

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"I grant freely that the theory of "plenary verbal inspiration," involves some difficulties. I do not pretend to answer all the objections brought against it, or to defend all that has been written by its supporters. I am content to remember that all inspiration is a miraculous operation of the Holy Ghost, and, like every operation of the Holy Ghost, must needs be mysterious." - John Charles Ryle

Both. What changed your understanding?

In Christ: Phillip

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"Christ in you the Hope of Glory" "The life I now live in the flesh, I live by the faith of the Son of God."

QUOTE: "Do men sin because they are sinners or are they sinners because they sin ???"==PROUDPAPA




BOTH.

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9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of THEM WHICH SAY THEY ARE JEWS,AND ARE NOT,but are the synagogue of Satan.==Rev. 2:9 (see also Rev. 3:9)emph. mine

"FOR WHERE TWO OR THREE ARE GATHERED TOGETHER IN MY NAME, *THERE* AM I, IN THE MIDST OF *THEM*."==MATTHEW 18:20 (emph. mine)

Re: What changed your understanding?

I had my understanding challenged.

For years I struggled in habitual sin a sincere Christian on one hand but a slave to sin on the other. I excused it in my head by the orthodox misunderstanding of Romans 7 as the normal Christian Life and a belief that my very nature was sin.

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"I grant freely that the theory of "plenary verbal inspiration," involves some difficulties. I do not pretend to answer all the objections brought against it, or to defend all that has been written by its supporters. I am content to remember that all inspiration is a miraculous operation of the Holy Ghost, and, like every operation of the Holy Ghost, must needs be mysterious." - John Charles Ryle

I've heard Chuck Smith explain it this way:
When a person steals a horse it doesn't make him a horse thief, it just proves that he already is one.

The important thing is that the horse thief is guilty of this sin at the point in time when he decides in his heart to commit the sin and not at the conclusion of the stealing of the horse. Sin is a matter of the heart first and foremost. Only after the heart is corrupted will the body act on it. Romans chapters 6 and 7 view sin as a principle acting on the heart, mind and will of a person. The fruit of this inward corruption is the act of sin. The religious Pharisees of Jesus' time were extremely careful and observant of external outer deeds (whether sinful or righteous) and ignored the more important state of the heart. Jesus rebuked them and declared that lusting in the heart after a woman is just as sinful as actually committing fornication and railing at someone as a fool is a sin worthy of death and hell.

hi, watch out for coveting.

Re: When a person steals a horse it doesn't make him a horse thief, it just proves that he already is one.



If the man had not believed in his heart that he was a horse thief would he have stole the horse??

_________________
"I grant freely that the theory of "plenary verbal inspiration," involves some difficulties. I do not pretend to answer all the objections brought against it, or to defend all that has been written by its supporters. I am content to remember that all inspiration is a miraculous operation of the Holy Ghost, and, like every operation of the Holy Ghost, must needs be mysterious." - John Charles Ryle

proudpapa said:

If the man had not believed in his heart that he was a horse thief would he have stole the horse??

My response:
What a strange question. I have no idea what point you are trying to make or where you are going with this question.

I have never heard of criminals asking themselves "do I believe I am a criminal?" before committing a crime. I've heard both sides of the arguments for original sin and against it (Pelagianism) and I don't recall anyone bringing up the idea that one's own personal belief about one's state of sinfulness had any bearing on anything. There are plenty of criminals who with a straight face have no shame or any remorse and see nothing wrong with their behavior. They are deluded and have a conscience that is seared as with a hot iron. It proves nothing.

"RE: My response: What a strange question. I have no idea what point you are trying to make or where you are going with this question."

OK Let me ask it this away If the horse thief had believed in his heart that he was dead to sin imputed with the righteousness of Christ freed from sin a child of God would he be still be tempted to steal the horse ??



"RE There are plenty of criminals who with a straight face have no shame or any remorse and see nothing wrong with their behavior. They are deluded and have a conscience that is seared as with a hot iron. It proves nothing."

I agree on the surface they do not show shame or remorse but they are controled by Guilt. They will use every drug,drink or other sin to escape for one second the reality of what there conscience screams at them.

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"I grant freely that the theory of "plenary verbal inspiration," involves some difficulties. I do not pretend to answer all the objections brought against it, or to defend all that has been written by its supporters. I am content to remember that all inspiration is a miraculous operation of the Holy Ghost, and, like every operation of the Holy Ghost, must needs be mysterious." - John Charles Ryle

Hi! ProudPapa
I'm hoping you mean your Nick to say that your Heavenly Papa is exceedingly pleased with you. :)
I start with the asking of a question:
Let's say you are watching the television News and you see the News Anchor plainly displayed on the screen.
If you tore the TV set apart into a zillion pieces, would you find the News Anchor?
Of course not.
The News Anchor was merely imaged on the screen; his actual person was located perhaps three hundred miles distance.
We can use the same metaphor to describe a situation that belongs to every man.
If we were to tear a man apart into microscopic pieces we would never discover a thought nor find the person himself.
This is primarily because both the TV and man behave as receivers. Depending on which channel you choose, dictates what image is displayed on the TV screen. Depending which side of the Kingdom of Heaven a man is seeking inspiration from dictates what becomes evident in/through his physical body.
If a man is seen bent over under depression, you know that he is being inspired from the dark side of the Kingdom of Heaven ... the kingdom of darkness. If a man displays joy and peace, you know that he has his thoughts on things from out of the Kingdom of Light.
This is how we must view sin. Sin does not belong to us ... the ideas behind Original Sin are entirely wrong. But we can volunteer to take possession of the powers of sin ... agree with their inspirations ... put our faith in their lies and subsequently become injured within our inner man.
There is alot more that could be said about Sin, but I don't think anyone desires a lengthy Bible Study about it here. :)