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Discussion Forum : Revivals And Church History : Is the Roman Catholic Church really rooted in EVIL?

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MaryJane
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Joined: 2006/7/31
Posts: 3057


 Re:

by roadsign on 2012/8/24 8:40:38

Quote:
So where does that leave my mother??


Your mother is uniquely your mother, and cannot be defined by those I spoke about, can she? The better question may be: “Mom, where would your faith be if you could no longer practise those things? Perhaps you may wish to tell her about the persecuted Catholics who were stripped from all their religious connections and learned to trust in Christ alone AND enjoy his presence in a dirty prison.

__________

You are right my mother is unique and I should not have entered into this discussion. I knew better...

God Bless
maryjane

 2012/8/24 15:15Profile
passerby
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Joined: 2008/8/13
Posts: 640


 Re:

My sentiment about the last four posts.

Many have died or suffered in the name of integrity, their ideals, and religion but never for Christ.

To gain Christ we must forsake our family, country, ideals, and religion_ and be willing to be forsaken and persecuted by them.

Has anybody encountered the phrase 'cerrado catolico', in essence it is an expression or sort of a motto among the RC that no matter what, they will remain RC and will never not turn from their religion.

 2012/8/24 15:46Profile
MaryJane
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Joined: 2006/7/31
Posts: 3057


 Re:

I am sorry if my last post came off as disrespectful of what you were sharing. I did not mean for it too. You are right my mother is different then the Catholics that you were referring too and I should have acknowledge that difference. I hope you will forgive me if there was offense taken.

My mom has not suffered persecution but she is completely devoted to her faith. So much so that to her holding firm to her faith in the RCC is the same as holding to her faith in JESUS. She can not and will not separate the two. She has said that the only way they will take her Catholic Bible and rosary from her is when they remove it from her lifeless hands. At this time I believe she means that.

I have prayed for her for a long time and I still continue to but in the end if she refuses to repent and seek to follow JESUS only then she is not my sister in CHRIST. It does break my heart to say that about her, I love her so much but her faith is in something other then JESUS and HE alone is the Way, the TRUTH, and the LIGHT.

I do agree that all of us have idols in our lives. I know GOD in HIS mercy has shown me many of my own so that I might repent. Having said that though I think the difference that I see is that Roman Catholics do not see their faith in Mary or the church as an idol they see it as being the same as having faith in JESUS.

God bless
mj

Edited: I edited my post. I hope to make it more clear in conveying my thoughts with you.

 2012/8/24 19:17Profile
roadsign
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Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3776


 Re:

Mary Jane, It must be disheartening to see your mother so dependent on her religious practices – when you know she could be enjoying the sweet grace of Jesus Christ if she could just meet him. And to think - He’s there in the very Bible she holds! It seems that she, like so many, take the common path: lean on the church, and it will surely be all right. Faith in the church’s faith without questioning can seem so right …. until one is hurt and disappointed by that church. (that’s true for any denomination)

So then there are the hoards of Catholics (and we meet them all the time) who are disillusioned by the church – even intensely angry. They turn their back on anything “religious”– even God. Now I ask: Will they benefit from hearing more about the wicked evils of the church or will that merely reinforce and justify their resentment. How can we encourage such people to move towards forgiveness? Yes: forgiveness of those who let them down. Because, after all, forgiveness is essential in the path to Christ’s sweet grace. Of course we want to empathize with their hurt and acknowledge it, but in such a way that we shift their eyes from the empty half of the cup (what they missed) to the full half – that is Christ – and all He has to offer - which is far beyond what any human organization can offer.

Diane


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Diane

 2012/8/24 20:19Profile
jimp
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Joined: 2005/6/18
Posts: 1481


 Re:

hi, the important thing to me is the catholic person, who needs Jesus like anyone else. it is stupid to attack their belive system if we intend to tell them the gospel. i have seen hundreds of catholic people get saved(most left their church eventually)Jesus died for catholics, mormons, jws, gays, lesbians and ugly old men like me.jimp

 2012/8/24 22:16Profile
EverestoSama
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Joined: 2010/5/17
Posts: 1175


 Re: The Babies of Babylon.

Quote:
Does it mean that these movements and people involved are LOST? Not necessarily, but if followed continually, without repentance, probably. Why? Worshipping God in Spirit and in Truth is a requirement to Know Him and He rejects those who do not.



Exactly.

Can you be a Christian and a Catholic?

Yes.

Can you be a Christian and REMAIN a Catholic?

Not on your life.

"Come out of her My people." (Rev 18:4)

He confirms that they're His people, but He commands that they must come out. No two ways about it.

 2012/8/25 0:33Profile
roadsign
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Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3776


 Re:

Quote:
Can you be a Christian and REMAIN a Catholic?

Not on your life.
“Come out of her My people." (Rev 18:4)


This is unsubstantiated on two counts: First of all, it is based on what has been read INTO the biblical text. And second, it cannot be validated as true. If we have never met one Catholic who knows the Lord Jesus and has put their trust in God, the real issue is more likely the limitations of our experience, our knowledge of church history, and our expectations of what God is doing and can do in the world - yes even today, as in the evangelical movement in some Catholic congregations.


It is counterproductive to isolate out the Catholic Church, call them Babylon, while disregarding the fluidity between these two "sides" – including the hostilities of the past. In one town I lived in it wasn’t long ago that Protestant and catholic school children hated (ie feared) each other so much that they would walk on opposite sides of the street from each other – and even beat each other up. Where did they learn to do this?

Strong anti-Catholic rhetoric is fear driven – much like we see in Jesus day where the Jews hated the Samaritans. They stayed away from them thinking that would keep them pure. Why the need?

Jesus got close to real people - and you can't do that when you stay on the other side of the fence which you have created and hurl generalizations about their wickedness.

I wonder, Do we assume that extending graciousness to our perceived “enemy” means we must compromise our faith, or that we must support everything they teach. I hope not!

We do well to remember that we Protestants took much with us from their Catholic roots – good and bad. And even today both “sides” have similar propensities – (as I noted earlier). Our common ground is our human nature - and a God who rules the universe and shows no partiality when it comes to his gift of salvation.

A real life of faith on our part means that we drink deeply from the Living Water – the abundant and eternal supply. It means that we walk in the Promised Land. We trust God and stop fearing the “giant” enemies in the land.

Regarding the monstrous Catholic Church, if we continue to respond with this prevailing fear-drivenness we risk becoming just like them - those without faith.

Instead, let us walk in faith and move forward into the Promised Land, enjoy and share the wonderful blessings. That is the only way we distinguish ourselves from those who do not walk in faith. And it is the way we invite them to the Living Spring. That is being truly evangelical.

Diane


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Diane

 2012/8/25 8:18Profile
MaryJane
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Joined: 2006/7/31
Posts: 3057


 Diane

Diane

I agree that attacking the Catholic faith or the religious traditions themselves does nothing to draw a person to CHRIST. I have had long lengthy discussions with my mother about the traditions and beliefs she follows but that has only caused her to dig in deeper. I do my best to share JESUS with her but when she asks me to pray for the dead I tell her I can't do that. When she shares with me her prayers and devotionals to Mary I tell her I can not receive those things. I do all of this with as much love and kindness as the LORD gives me. I do not want to hurt her or belittle her, I want her to know that I love her and pray for her. As she gets older and has health issues it very hard but I know GOD is in control and I trust HIM. My mom is so completely devoted to the Catholic church and Mary that I have come to realize there is nothing that I can say that will change that so I pray...

I will just add I do believe that those who are Catholic can be saved and become born again Christians just like anyone else but as was mentioned by others I do not believe someone who does choose to follow JESUS and submit onto HIM in all things will remain following the Catholic traditions and beliefs.

Thank for sharing with me and allowing me to share my heart for my mother. You have been very kind

God bless
maryjane

 2012/8/25 8:18Profile
MaryJane
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Joined: 2006/7/31
Posts: 3057


 Re:

Diane

I just saw your post it must have come through as I was posting. I understand some of what your saying. Again I do not believe we attack Catholics with word or attitude but as a Christian I can not attend Mass with my mother in good conscious or pray for dead people or to mary...do you at least see that these things are not of GOD and can and do cause a wedge there when it comes to fellowship? Doing any of these things with a Catholic would compromise a Christians faith wouldn't it?

God bless
mj

 2012/8/25 8:26Profile
roadsign
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Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3776


 Re: Diane


Quote:
I have had long lengthy discussions with my mother about the traditions and beliefs she follows but that has only caused her to dig in deeper.



This response is the natural outcome of our attempts to point out someone’s errors. They use up their mental energy to reinforce what is embedded in their conscience. That’s why it is counterproductive to focus on the wrongs of the other. We merely reinforce the opposite of what we want to achieve.

In focusing on the wrongs, we either we make them more resolved in their practice… or if they are already disillusioned, we intensify their resentment.


Mary Jane, you are wise in making Christlikeness your own goal – that you may have his love towards your mother. Even as you grieve deep within, you will exude the joy of the Lord as your strength. When your mother faces trials, she may yet discover for herself that only Jesus holds her up. Your love and prayers are your gift to her.

Diane


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Diane

 2012/8/25 8:41Profile





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