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I was not disagreeing with you, Art... just adding further clarification for the sake of other readers on here who sometimes dont grasp what I'm trying to say (not always their fault!)


 2012/5/30 15:49

Joined: 2004/4/27
Posts: 431
New York


by KrispyKrittr on 2012/5/30 12:49:19

"I was not disagreeing with you, Art... just adding further clarification for the sake of other readers on here who sometimes dont grasp what I'm trying to say (not always their fault!)"

Sorry, I was a bit confused. It is not your fault, it is mine. I have a mental disability. I'm not the man I use to be.

I thank you for the clarification.

"Am I Paranoid? ---------------------------------- Why do you ask?"

Edited because I have too much time on my hands.

Arthur Biele

 2012/5/30 16:13Profile

Joined: 2010/4/19
Posts: 447


Years later I forgave my brother but he has never confessed his wrong doing. When other family member speak of ill of him, I lift him up because as far as I am concerned what was done is done even though I am left with the scars and in the throes of healing.

Hi Approved,

I share the same story as you, except the guy responsible for my molestation died of aids. I hold no bitterness over the issue, not the least.

Should I take my brother before the courts and let the world deal with him because of his homosexual crimes against my humanity?

What kind of believer would I be? It only shows me that I hate my brother.

What you have done here is taken the path of least resistance and now you are trying to justify it in your own mind, I don't fault you for it.

What would you do if you ever found out that your brother has done the same thing to 15 other kids (because frankly you don't really know)? Would you be in here explaining how 'righteous' your decision was?

I've seen countless cases on TV where victim #1 did not report the person and they are tearfully apologizing to victim #15 and their families.

This man's sons did the right thing. Now for the rest of this man's life people will know that they should not leave innocent children with him or let him supervise kids in any way. A truly repentant man would understand this.

Look at Corrie Ten Boom hiding Jews behind her hidden closet? She lied to the world, the powers that be. Should she be taken to court because she concealed Jews that were considered enemies to the state?

Most folks can see that protecting innocent life (like Corrie Ten Boom did) is different than shielding unrepentant pedophiles. There is nothing righteous about shielding a pedophile, nothing, they are free to continue their wickedness but now protected by silence.

How far do we go with this?

As I explained earlier, SECULAR counselors are required to report molestation to police as a stipulation of keeping their license, are Godly counselors held to a lower standard or does Romans 13 not apply to us?

Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience.

What I see you doing here is projecting the way that you handled your incident on these men. Since you believe that the way you handled it to be right, by default the way these men handled it is wrong in your mind, and you are actually defending your own inaction by condemning these men unjustly. Should you defend these men and the way that they handled the situation, you would be condemning yourself.

Again, I understand the situation from a personal perspective since I am (and will always be) in the same position as yourself. My point is simply why not give these men the benefit of the doubt, as I am with you?

One last thing, the way that your parents handled this was wrong, I hope that you not just know this in your head, but in your heart as well.

I pray that the Lord will give you peace, I really do :-)

 2012/5/30 18:11Profile

 Re: Can a child molester enter the kingdom of God

In Christ, the same dreadful nature is fled from by fleeing to the cross with a groan of deliverance. Every man who takes the name of Christ should understand this if he has a need to understand it. Some understand it because they themselves; including this man, have been abused and are as this world understands it, a victim. But to see this and not the more dreadful reality that it is Satan who is pleased with these things, then even the victims become the abusers. My own daughter is my own testimony in this regard as are the children of many who have been abused. This is God’s doing for which we are immeasurably grateful. (amrkelly)

It has been drawn to my attention that I was confessing to a previous sin in this statement. It has also been drawn to my attention that by saying "I realise that I am walking into fire in saying this" confirms this. So I will take this opportunity to speak plainly.

The walking into fire was a reference to how men are thought of by many sisters who take a psychological as well as a Sociological, and therefore a natural view of how to think of men who commit this sin; which was the centrality of this post. No one who only sees the little children is going to be able to take any other position. Speaking to that emotional understanding is like walking into fire. Being hated for sharing God's own attitude of forgiveness on this difficult and deeply emotional problem for men and women is like walking into fire.

Although I was sexually abused when in care as a child, disbelieved and stumbled in life, I have not fallen into this sin myself. My Daughter Sarah is my testimony of this. Last year she married aged 20 years she was spotless in mind and body. As was her husband. I thank God for this because having studied this subject professionally and personally I know very well how many children who are abused become abusers. Especially men. The fact that God has kept me from this sin is something for which I am immeasurably grateful. As is my daughter who understands the subject well enough. She is a professional child carer herself.

Now I can say it plainly.

Any man who has fallen into this sin as a professing christian, should have only one expectation if he has not truly repented of it; rejection from the Kingdom of Heaven, as well; the fearful wrath of God.

Any man who has fallen into this sin as a confessing christian, and has repented of it should be exposed to his family and church so that he can be kept from further sin. What the governments of the world do is of no consequence to God. It was Christ Who died for sin. Such a man should know that even though he is forgiven by God, he will walk about the Kingdom of Heaven naked. And when others in the Kingdom ask him why he is naked "He will be ashamed". Further any such man should realise that he has shipwrecked his calling and should shut his mouth, cease to teach and cease from eldership if he is a teacher or elder. Let him bear the continual shame of acknowledging God's mercy in granting him repentance having put Christ to an open shame and having rejected the only sacrifice for sin.

If anyone has the courage to look into this they can e-mail my daughter

Andrew M R Kelly

Edited for spelling

 2012/5/31 3:09

Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3776


if you had a gut feeling about the guy why didnt you do something about it? There are ways of checking your gut feeling …

This is a valid point – and, I think, moves us towards the heart of the matter. If there is no means of “checking your gut feeling..” then there is no means of preventing episodes or of exposing the problem. Children tend to be more intuitive than adults, because adults have learned to shut down their internal sensors till they no longer have “gut feelings” or no longer consider such feelings to be legitimate.

If children are continuously shamed for having negative feelings (or any feelings), then they learn to suppress their “gut feelings” till they become unavailable. Also, without good modeling by adults kids don’t develop the language needed to express these feelings. They don’t learn to trust their gut feelings. Their insecurity makes them easy targets for perpetrators.

Emotional immaturity is a breeding ground for abusive perpetration – for those who become victims as well as the victimizers. The little girl (or boy) may refuse to get on the school bus because the offender is on it, but then gets disciplined for being disobedient. (I’ve seen this). Or a woman reports her husband to the eldership, and she is reprimanded for being unsubmissive and unforgiving. (I know such a case). Then when she finally leaves her husband, she is considered a reprobate.

Perhaps an abused girl goes on to be a prostitute. Or perhaps a troubled boy is struggling with extreme fear/anger sense of helplessness or whatever may predispose him to seek out and exploit weaker subjects rather than enjoy a mature marriage relationship. So the problem begins festering long before it gets full blown and addictive. It is shaped and reinforced in an environment with weakness and sickness in the relationships – family /church/society.

This sin condition seems to flourish easily in a religious environment that operates in hypocrisy. Here finely-polished pretense has greater authenticity than truthfulness in all its ugly and “unspiritual” expressions.

It doesn’t help when the Christian community uses terminologies that hinder this path to truthfulness. How does one come to value negative “gut feelings” when you are taught that feelings are unreliable – or perhaps “soulish” – unspiritual, or considered “carnal”.

Now you can see why I do not like certain words, and why I would suggest using more specific terms that can be more useful. The word “soulish” ( a human invention) could easily suggest that any natural feelings from deep within are to be suppressed – considered unspiritual.

The word “carnal” biblically refers to the flesh – which, in itself is not evil. Yet “carnal” is now essentially a word for a vague, general idea of sin. Consider the problem when flesh (or sex) is viewed as evil. In so much of church history sexual activity has been overly demeaned. And then years later it all comes to the surface through the publicizing of of sexual abuse.

The field of “psychology” may be considered evil and worldly, but let’s not throw out the baby with the bathwater – lest we create our own psychology – bad psychology at that – our own way of understanding which merely blocks the path to God’s wonderful redemptive healing through Christ. Jesus did not die for our plastic superficial selves or for only a teeny portion of our being. He died for who we truly are – fallen human beings separated from the Father by sin, with a bent from birth onward to fix our troubles apart from God. Jesus died that we may be united with him in wholeness – in his resurrected life.

And as has been insinuated here, we are all both victims and perpetrators of sin. And regardless of our own sin history, a continuous life of repentance is the only way. That’s not merely stopping certain behaviors, but turning ever more intently to our Lord for the provisions of his new life. In learning to live well in his new life, we need each other. Those with sin weaknesses need a community of mature people who are good examples and also are in the habit of holding each other accountable.

To the extent that the people of God fail to grow and mature – they are part of the problem.



 2012/5/31 11:45Profile

Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3776


..... and conversely:

To the extent that the people of God grow and mature in their calling, they can be part of the solution.


 2012/5/31 12:15Profile

Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1714

 Re: Can a Child Molester Inherit the Kingdom of God?

I want to share an email that Zac Poonen wrote to his Church elders regarding a similar child molestation charge on a famous Christian worker. I have Removed the concerned person's name.
Dear brothers,

XXXX was the leader of the well-known organization ZZZZ. He had worked with them for 30 years. He was 65 years old and a grandfather. But he was recently under police investigation for an allegation that he had behaved improperly with a 10-year old girl. He was found dead 2 weeks ago. It is suspected that he had committed suicide in order to avoid the scandal from affecting his family and his grandchildren.

XXXX was associated with YYYY(who founded ZZZZ) for many years. XXXX had been imprisoned in Cuba for distributing tracts from an airplane, but he was released after some time. It now looks as if he was safer in the prison in Cuba than after he got fame in the USA!!

There are three areas where Christian leaders and preachers have always faced serious temptations - and that many are facing increasingly in our day:
1. Sexual sin. This seems to be plaguing Christian leaders everywhere nowadays – especially in the USA. I feel that the reason is that many of them are secretly watching internet pornography. This is usually the prelude that leads to falling into sexual sin. We must be radical in resisting this temptation totally. Always being alert and running away from it, is the only way to total freedom in this area. One step along this dark path will lead to another and after a while there will be no stopping. It will become an addiction. And then one day our shame will become public knowledge and embarrass us and our family members. There are probably thousands more of today’s Christian leaders who are impure in this area. Everyone will be exposed one day – if not now then at Christ’s judgment seat (which will be worse). Remember that XXXX was 65 years old and had been active in Christian work for 30 years! This addiction has no age-limit. But if we keep resisting it, the strength of this temptation will become weaker and weaker.
2. Fame. This is another problem that many Christian leaders are facing today. Most of them do not realize that fame can destroy them. Jesus and Paul and the true prophets were always unpopular and ridiculed by people. That was a protection for them. God said that the outer covering of the tabernacle (a picture of the church) was to be of an ugly brown ram’s skin. The beautifully embroidered golden threaded covering was to be on the inside. This is God’s way – reproach on the outside and glory on the inside. “The King’s bride is glorious INSIDE” (Psa.45:13). God puts “a canopy of reproach over all the glory within (the church)” (Isaiah 4:5). God kept CFC also under a covering of reproach and ridicule for many years – and this has protected us. A lot of that reproach is still there. But now many have begin to appreciate CFC for the blessing that we have been to them. So, we are now in far greater danger than before – and we must be alert.
3. Money. Many reports are sent out about Christian work whose only purpose is to get money. This has destroyed many Christian worker and their ministry spiritually – even though their work may have grown in size. My own policy has been that I have no right to ask anyone to support the Lord’s work with money, AS LONG AS I STILL HAVE ONE RUPEE LEFT IN MY OWN BANK ACCOUNT. Since I have always had more than one rupee in my bank account, I have never asked anyone for money – either for myself or for my ministry. God has always provided us what we needed – whatever amount He saw was fitting for our ministry. If we had received too much, we may have got involved in ministries that God never wanted us to be involved in. So financial shortage has been a protection

It is mainly because of failure in these three areas, that most preachers today lack a fresh revelation from God’s Word and also lack the anointing of the Spirit when they preach.

We are not called to judge others or to find fault with men who have fallen. But we must humbly learn from their failures and keep our faces in the dust always, for we all have the same flesh. The one who boasts inwardly that he has not fallen will be the first to fall. We must walk in the light before God’s face and also maintain a close fellowship with our fellow-elders, at all times.

May the Lord preserve us all.

Your brother,
Zac Poonen


 2012/5/31 13:14Profile


This may help someone. Maybe even the man that's now in jail.
With our prayers.

 2012/6/2 18:40

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