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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Can we lose our salvation? Let's ask the "Prince of Preachers"

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 Re:

"A religious spirit can label any version over another version and can also distort any version but I don't believe the Holy Spirit would have any part of this kind of desecration."

Exactly - The KJV is not without problems so should not be called the only true or only uncorrupted translation by the KJV only crowd.

"Some people like to read their Bibles in the Hebrew; some like to read it in the Greek; I like to ready it in the Holy Spirit." -Smith Wigglesworth

 2012/4/10 22:38
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
Robert: Salvation is a baptism into His death and resurrection in regeneration. Being born again is more than a repeated prayer (though it is possible for one to be saved that way), it is more than a change in habits that we call conversion but is often just a greater discipline of the flesh and is in reality legalism.



Yes. The question becomes, is it possible for folks to enter into a state of justification where they are not really regenerated, but they have truly believed that Jesus is Lord? I'm thinking now of Acts 19:1ff. They believed and were termed disciples, but had not been baptized in water, nor received the Holy Spirit.

As we walk though Romans it seems clear that Paul lays out justification by faith preceding all of the benefits of being baptized into the death of Christ, freed from Sin, etc. God justifies the ungodly. Can a person enter into a state of justification and remain there?

We had a similar conversation about 5 years ago.

http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=5112&forum=36&9


_________________
Robert Wurtz II

 2012/4/10 23:08Profile
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
THE KING JAMES BIBLE IS THE ONLY UNPERVERTED BIBLE IN CIRCULATION TODAY, ALL OTHERS ARE ADULTERATED "VERSIONS"



This is not true. What are we to make for folks that don't speak English? Although I tend to favor the KJV (AV), there are areas where the ground rules for translation forced certain renderings of Greek terms in favor of Hierarchy in leadership. This has helped lead to doctrines such as are found in Shepherding circles, etc. I typically recommend 'God's Secretaries' to those interested in KJV translation process.

http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=25863&forum=36&1


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Robert Wurtz II

 2012/4/10 23:17Profile
RobertW
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Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
Chris's: I do know a believer like the one you described, Robert.

He came to Christ and had a night-to-day conversion. He was bold and eager with his faith and held very strong convictions about what is right and what is wrong. However, he didn't receive the same type of instruction with other believers at his Church. After a while, he compromised on many of those convictions. Slowly, he began partaking in the things of this world that he initially stood opposed to.



I find it interesting that in the 19th century the prevailing word description of someone that made a profession of faith was, 'hopefully converted.' I think this was a wise approach. We actually went though a series of studies that examined how differently the Gospel is preached today as opposed to the 1800's. For those interested in giving it a look, it was titled, "The Betrayal of the Ages."

http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=9750&forum=40&9


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Robert Wurtz II

 2012/4/10 23:25Profile
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
And those who continue in sin become a straw man for those who do not lead particularly sinful lifestyles, but who were " good people," before their "salvation by logical deduction drawn from prrof texts," and continued to be " good people," after their " salvation." ........bro Frank



I think this is a good point. It would be very easy to fly under the radar if someone lived a pretty wholesome life. Although I have never employed the strategy, I recall Finney talking about, "flushing folks from their hiding places." He seemed to have a 'knack' (for lack of better word) for spotting whether or not a person was holding out on God.

What is really challenging is to realize that Paul the Apostle never shifted from his basic message. About twelve years into his ministry, Paul went before King Agrippa to give an account. What Paul tells him is a summary of his ministry up until this time. Paul testified, “Therefore, King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision, but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance.” (Acts 26:19, 20.)

1. Repent
2. Turn to God
3. Do works worthy of repentance

This is the basic message of John the Baptist. Paul was still preaching it to the end so it seemed.


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Robert Wurtz II

 2012/4/10 23:35Profile
Onesetfree
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Joined: 2011/11/18
Posts: 31
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 Re:

http://www.spurgeon.org/sermons/0052.htm

Taken from above

"Brethren, we have gained legal life in Christ, and such legal life that we cannot lose it. The sentence has gone against us once—now it has gone out for us. It is written, "THERE IS NOW NO CONDEMNATION," and that now will do as well for me in fifty years as it does now. Whatever time we live it will still be written, "There is therefore, now no condemnation to them that are in Christ Jesus."

"Now, any Arminian that would preach from that text must buy a pair of India rubber lips, for I am sure he would need to stretch his mouth amazingly; he would never be able to speak the whole truth without winding about in a most mysterious manner. Eternal life—not a life which they are to lose, but eternal life. If I lost life in Adam I gained it in Christ; if I lost myself for ever I find myself for ever in Jesus Christ. Eternal life! Oh blessed thought! Our eyes will sparkle with joy and our souls bum with ecstasy in the thought that we have eternal life"

"There never was a man who came to Christ for eternal life, for legal life, for spiritual life, who had not already received it, in some sense, and it was manifested to him that he had received it soon after he came. Let us take one or two texts—"He is able to save to the uttermost them that come unto him." Every man who comes to Christ will find that Christ is able to save him—not able to save him a little, to deliver him from a little sin, to keep him from a little trial, to carry him a little way and then drop him—but able to save him to the uttermost extent of his sin, unto the uttermost length of his trials, the uttermost depths of his sorrows, unto the uttermost duration of his existence. Christ says to every one who comes to him, "Come, poor sinner, thou needst not ask whether I have power to save. I will not ask thee how far thou hast gone into sin; I am able to save thee to the uttermost." And there is no one on earth can go beyond God's "uttermost."

These are some strong words, but they are not mine but Spurgeons.....This is a lengthy article, if you read it, I trust you will be blessed.


_________________
Steve

 2012/4/11 0:01Profile









 Re:



Brother, do you have the link to Part II ?

 2012/4/11 1:08
brothagary
Member



Joined: 2011/10/23
Posts: 1861


 Re:

hi there brethren ,,,,what a topic lol

i must disagree with the comment about this doctrine not having jesus at the center

i think the main scripture suport for the persaverence of the saints ,,is the high preistly prayer ,and the words of our lord ,all whom the father has givern me will come to me ,and i will in no way cast him out ,,words to that effect recorded in the gosple of john

i love to confess that jesus christ prayed in the will of his father ,and his father our father ,answerd and is answering his prayer ,regarding his elect we will be one with him ,as he is one with the father ,perioud full stop and amen

christ prayer for those whom the fatherhas givern him ,was was not in vain but fuly efectual ,becasue fo who our christs is AND WHO he prayed to ,,what ever you ask in father in my name ,it shall be done

jesus practiced what he preached

he prayed in his own name

in the will of his father

this is the will of god said jesus and was recorded by the apostal whom he loved

presious brothers and sisters ,i must go out ,,,,will post some scripture later blessings and more blessings be multiplied

 2012/4/11 4:26Profile









 Re:

Quote:
Until or unless you read this book which compares the versions and proves this, don't even bother to argue.



Trekker, you are fairly new here so it's obvious you are not aware that I carried the KJV flag here for many years. Yes, I read that book. I can argue both sides of the KJV debate with anyone. I choose not to anymore.

You do realize that I was actually defending the KJV's translation of the verse in question, correct? You seemed a little confused on that.

Krispy

 2012/4/11 6:16









 Re:

I catch what people are saying about identifying with "movements", etc. Look, I get that, I'm not stupid. I realize that the gospel is the gospel. It's not reformed or pentecostal or methodist... etc.

I call myself Reformed because as soon as I say that everyone knows where I am coming from. It's a point of reference. Nothing more.

Some of you here believe every true believer also needs to receive the Holy Spirit and speak in tongues subsequent to salvation. OK, but instead of taking a week to explain to me what you believe... just tell me you're Pentecostal (because thats what you are) and then I know what you believe. It saves a lot of time.

Here's the thing... while I am "reformed" in my theology, the fact is I believe it is Biblical. I dont adhere to reformed theology because I think it's cool, or I have put my faith in some theologian. To suggest that to me is actually quite insulting to my intelligence.

I actually set out to proove "calvinism" wrong. I hated it! With a passion. If you go back 5 or 6 years on this forum you will see the seething hatred I had for it. I began studying, reading books against it. Then I decided I was being unfair to myself in how I was approaching my study of it, so I began to read the other side to get a balanced look at things.

Believe it or not, this very forum was extremely instrumental in my progression in learning sound theology! Back in the day there were a lot of people here who held to "reformed" theology... and it was them that got me thinking about it.

It took almost 3 years and a great pastor who loves to teach and has a passion for the Word of God. Slowly my eyes were opened and God began to reveal some things to me in the Word of God that just opened the Bible up to me in ways I never imagined.

Make no doubt about it, friends... I love JESUS. Not Calvin, or Piper, or Sproul or MacArthur. JESUS.

It's easy to sit back when you dont know or understand a belief and say "Well, you're just following so and so, you need to follow the Bible"... as if the person was too stupid to realize that. C'mon... we need to give each other more credit than that.

I found that there was a lot in the Bible that needed to be reconciled in my heart and mind. God was faithful to do that for me, and I have a long ways to go. My thinking about God and the Bible had to change.

Even tho some of you prooved a distaste for RC Sproul on another thread (and deemed him unsaved even tho you have never read or heard a word he has ever taught in 40 years) said that if our thinking or beliefs dont align with the Word of God, then it isnt the Word of God that needs changing.

I agree, and in a nutshell... thats what happened to me.

So if y'all dont mind, please cease from insisting that I follow some man or some system of theology. I follow Jesus. It just so happens that I have found that what I believe the Bible teaches lines up with Reformed Theology 90% of the time. Therefore I save time explaining to people what I believe by simply saying I am "reformed".

Krispy

 2012/4/11 6:33





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