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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Can we lose our salvation? Let's ask the "Prince of Preachers"

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brothagary
Member



Joined: 2011/10/23
Posts: 1861


 Re:

your wecome ,your humility armkelly is refreshing


going back to the vine and branches ,heres some old testament example of the branches and the vine being the jews and not bornagaing christans


isa
7 For the vineyard of the LORD of hosts is the house of Israel And the men of Judah His delightful plant. Thus He looked for justice, but behold, bloodshed; For righteousness, but behold, a cry of distress.

jesus parable is in conection to this brothers

 2012/4/14 4:18Profile









 Re: Beware to not hide your Love and remain faithful.

!+
Only the servant that hid his substance was condemned; and that into Hell, even though he belonged to Him, as much as those He rewarded.

Once, many years ago, while reading this passage, the Lord spoke to me in a very clear way; "IT'S ALL ABOUT MERCY!
If we hide our mercies, and Agape life, after we are saved, and turn to wicked selfishness, we will not be saved.

"but from him that hath not....[ shown mercy ] SHALL BE TAKEN AWAY even that which he hath. [ the mercies he has hid ].

A unfaithful servant suffering weeping, and gnashing of teeth. It matters to God whether we learn how to love, or not.



 2012/4/14 8:41
savannah
Member



Joined: 2008/10/30
Posts: 1957


 Re: "...they shall not depart from Me."


To answer the objection of some who believe and say, "I think that there is a difference between Jesus "losing" someone or someone "walking away"." I offer the following.

And I will cut an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do good to them. But I will put My fear in their heart, that they shall not depart from Me. (LITV)

And I wyll set vp an euerlasting couenaunt with them [namely] that I wyll neuer ceasse to do them good, and that I wyll put my feare in their heartes, so that they shall not runne away from me. (Bishops' Bible 1568).

And I will make an euerlasting couenant with them, that I will not turne away from them, to doe them good, but I will put my feare in their hearts, that they shall not depart from mee. (1611 KJV)

"I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me."

"They shall not depart from me." If there were only that text in the Bible, it would suffice to prove the final perseverance of the saints: "They SHALL NOT depart from me." The salvation of those who are in covenant with God is herein provided for by an absolute promise of the omnipotent God, which must be carried out. It is plain, clear, unconditional, positive: "They shall not depart from me."

Q. Suppose a child of God should utterly depart from the Lord, and wholly lose the life of God: what then? Would he nevertheless be saved?

A. His salvation lies in the fact that he will never utterly lose the life of God. We tempt the LORD by asking what would happen in a case which can never occur. I know that it is offensive to some to speak in this manner. But herein lies the very truth of the promise of God's salvation.

If any differ on this I cannot help it; but I would ask them not to differ from the text; for the Scripture cannot be broken. Read it: "I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me." There it stands, "They shall not depart from me."

Q. By what instrumentality does God maintain this fear in the hearts of his people?

A. It is the work of the Spirit of God: the Holy Spirit usually works by means. The fear of God is kept alive in our hearts by the hearing of the Word; for faith comes by hearing, and holy fear comes through faith. Be diligent, then, in hearing the Word. That fear is kept alive in our hearts by reading the Scriptures; for as we feed on the Word, it breathes within us that fear of God which is the beginning of wisdom. This fear of God is maintained in us by the belief of revealed truth, and meditation thereon.

"God will give them a heart to fear him, Jer. 32:39. That which he requires of those whom he takes into covenant with him as his people is that they fear him, that they reverence his majesty, dread his wrath, stand in awe of his authority, pay homage to him, and give him the glory due unto his name. Now what God requires of them he here promises to work in them, pursuant to his choice of them as his people. Note, As it is God's prerogative to fashion men's hearts, so it is his promise to his people to fashion theirs aright; and a heart to fear God is indeed a good heart, and well fashioned. It is repeated (Jer.32:40): I will put my fear in their hearts, that is, work in them gracious principles and dispositions, that shall influence and govern their whole conversation. Teachers may put good things into our heads, but it is God only that can put them into our hearts, that can work in us both to will and to do."

"First, God will never leave nor forsake them: I will not turn away from them to do them good. Earthly princes are fickle, and their greatest favourites have fallen under their frowns; but God's mercy endures for ever. Whom he loves he loves to the end. God may seem to turn from this people (Isa.54:8), but even then he does not turn from doing and designing them good. Secondly, They shall never leave nor forsake him; that is the thing we are in danger of. We have no reason to distrust God's fidelity and constancy, but our own; and therefore it is here promised that God will give them a heart to fear him for ever, all days, to be in his fear every day and all the day long (Prov.23:17), and to continue so to the end of their days. He will put such a principle into their hearts that they shall not depart from him. Even those who have given up their names to God, if they be left to themselves, will depart from him; but the fear of God ruling in the heart, will prevent their departure. That, and nothing else, will do it. If we continue close and faithful to God, it is owing purely to his almighty grace and not to any strength or resolution of our own." - M.H.

"It has been written in the Prophets, They "shall" all "be taught of God." So then everyone who hears and learns from the Father comes to Me;"(John 6:45)

"And this is the Father's will who hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me, I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day." John 6:39

 2012/4/15 9:15Profile
pilgrim777
Member



Joined: 2011/9/30
Posts: 1211


 Re:

If God is able, after we have been saved, to keep us believing in Christ without violating our freedom, why can't He, before we are saved, cause us to believe in Christ in order to become saved--without violating our wills?

Pilgrim

 2012/4/15 12:14Profile









 Re: God saves faithful children; those who rebel are under His wrath.

...they shall not depart from Me."....savannah

I believe that there is an elect body, Savannah, that has a grace on them, a sealing if you will, that "will not depart" from the Lord. I think the Lord called this, "For the Elects sake". Those Elected and chosen to have sufficient Grace given unto them...a "My grace is sufficient for you.." soul, if you will.

But in the Light of much heresies and error ,and the falling away so prophesied, and the multitude of scripture that clearly denies eternal OSAS doctrine, [ as shewn below ], clearly one can deny Christ who once had received the Holy spirit.

I will submit another scripture, a parable, about the Talents. In it I had a revelation, and I describe.

"It's all about mercy!" ; When we withhold our love, fear, for it may cost us our soul.

.........................Matthew 25...the Master left on a journey and entrusted three of His servants to steward His gifts to them, to invest and increase them. One got 5, One got 2, and one, got only 1. He then returned and confronted the three, to give account of their stewardship.....

"His master said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful slave. You were faithful with a few things, I will put you in charge of many things; enter into the joy of your master.’


“And the one also who had received the one talent came up and said, ‘Master, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you did not sow and gathering where you scattered no seed. And I was afraid, and went away and hid your talent in the ground. See, you have what is yours.’


“But his master answered and said to him, ‘You wicked, lazy slave, you knew that I reap where I did not sow and gather where I scattered no seed. Then you ought to have put my money in the bank, and on my arrival I would have received my money back with interest. Therefore take away the talent from him, and give it to the one who has the ten talents.’


29 “For to everyone who has, more shall be given, and he will have an abundance; but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away. Throw out the worthless slave into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

Once while reading Matthew 25, the Lord spoke to me in a very clear way; "IT'S ALL ABOUT MERCY!"

What was the awful sin of the entrusted slave that only received ONE talent, if that one talent was not Mercy. It is the only sin that God will not forgive. ........"And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.

BUT IF YOU DO NOT FORGIVE!, ....NEITHER... will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses."

All were servants, slaves to God. Some invested their mercies, perfectly tied into agape Love, into the World, and in doing so, gained mercies from God to endure. One however hid his mercies, refusing to show mercy, or Love, rightly discerning the Body of Christ.

The end of this servant was Hades, judges, as a wicked one, and a warning to us;........."For to everyone who has, more shall be given, and he will have an abundance; but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away. Throw out the worthless slave into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."


Learning how to love others, and forgiving others, is a central foundation in our walk with God, and more-so; It is a mortal command, and our souls may be in the balance of Life, or eternal death, if we, as Christians, refuse to give it away, as we have been given...even to be thrown into outer darkness in agony.....Brothertom

 2012/4/15 13:19









 Re:

Quote:
and that I wyll put my feare in their heartes, so that they shall not runne away from me.

you have to take your teeth out to talk that nowadays, but this speaks volumes to me.

 2012/4/15 13:26









 How many have you met, and what happens to them that do not?

............."and that I wyll put my feare in their heartes, so that they shall not runne away from me."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"you have to take your teeth out to talk that nowadays, but this speaks volumes to me." Me too Approved; but how many souls like this have you met? That "Greatly feared the Lord?"

I have met darn few....regrettably. Tom

 2012/4/15 13:42









 Re: How many have you met, and what happens to them that do not?

Thomas, We can only speak for ourselves. And on occasion we may say that of someone else saying, "He greatly fears the Lord". Personally, this verse speaks to me because I feel that fear and I also cannot run away from Him at all. Don't get me wrong, I have many times before. But you see even when I've tried to run away my heart was praying that God would keep me even though I didn't understand why it was necessary to run from Him in the first place. Almost fourteen years ago God had put such a fear in me that I greatly trembled. I literally trembled like being out in the cold without clothes, my teeth were clattering. God had delivered me but I didn't believe it at the time so I went back to my old sin and God would not have it. I thought I was going to die. From that time on I have had a fear never to go where He has officially sealed and condemned. That fear keeps me in check and to be frank, it makes me sick to even want to participate in that again.

I do not believe a man could live if he were to greatly tremble everyday. I had endured it for one moment let alone every day of our lives. I think that we should have a constant fear of knowing that God is God, and I can say this that I am aware of Him every day even when I put my hand to sin. I don't pray to get out of it. I need this, it's for my own good.

 2012/4/15 16:37
sermonindex
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Online!
 Re:

Dear Brothers and Sisters,

Due to the length of this discussion we are locking this thread. I think it is much more helpful for each thread to have a more narrowed focus and stay to that focus. May God continue to help us be led into all truth which is a office of the Holy Spirit of God. May we look to Him.


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 2012/4/15 17:03Profile





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