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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : There Was No Pre-Tribulation Rapture! When is Jesus Coming Back?

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jimp
Member



Joined: 2005/6/18
Posts: 1481


 Re:

hi,i am not going to worry one second about the things the ephah is talking about because i am ready today to meet Jesus. the foolish are getting ready and looking to signs were i am looking unto Jesus.i am not concerned about tomorrow for i am in Christ ,and He holds tomorrow. choose this day who you will serve...and serve Him.jimp

 2012/4/18 1:49Profile
budgie
Member



Joined: 2011/2/25
Posts: 266


 Re: Be prepared

One thought for us all that is very important in our walk is as follows
Jesus spent a lot of time warning his disciples of the future events for his own life, example him going to the cross.
Jesus also warned his disciples of future events that would be coming for them, so that when those events would take place the disciples would be reminded and would not see these things as a surprise or as a threat, but would see the power of Christs prophecy and could take comfort in that they had been prewarned, this created in them a trust and confidence knowing that Christ is of truth and was with them, an example of this is what Jesus showed Paul of his ministry and his death.
If Jesus saw the importance of revealing to us the future, then let us not despise these warnings but keep them in our hearts so that when these things take place, we will be reminded and have a faith and trust in Christ that is not waivering.
Like Jesus stated, when you see these things happening look up for your redemption draws near.
What a great hope we have, Jesus has not left us as orphans, he will return in the same way he left.
Let us arise and be confident of our faith in Jesus.
Let us not be ashamed of the gospel of Christ for in it the Righteosness of God is revealed to all, as it is written the Just shall live by faith.

 2012/4/18 5:28Profile









 Re: There Was No Pre-Tribulation Rapture! When is Jesus Coming Back?

The Abomination of Desolation isn't precisely a man in the way skydiver625 has stated. It is an idol set up in the Temple in Jerusalem.....permitted by God.....in order to reveal the true character and substance of the man of sin and the false prophet. The two witnesses are expressly given to confound this idol (which speaks with the voice of a man). Their authority is to demonstrate to those in Jerusalem (Israel) where true power and authority comes from.

Ordinarily we read in the Scriptures God rebuking His people because of idols.....which cannot speak.....here though this idol can speak. He speaks abominations and thereby makes desolate what is left of Truth and any semblance of it. If Israel cannot receive the man of sin as true Christ then how will he accomplish his ambitions. The false prophet assists in this by performing lying signs and wonders to cause men to worship him. This is purposeful deception. The signs and wonders are real but their aim is to deceive. In the end Satan himself is determined in his madness to be worshipped directly and so he finds utterance in an idol.

The issue of tribulation and rapture attend to their own purposes. Tribulation to make men repent of their wickedness.....yet they will not......and rapture to deliver those who are dressed in readiness to the marriage feast of The Lamb......to prepare for His service.

Israel is at the heart of God's concern regarding the Abomination that makes desolate....hence the injunction to flee at that moment. This too is to be found in Daniel and the Gospels as well as several letters and finally Revelations.

These issues disturb some saints. Any one who disturbs God's little ones will find themselves being disturbed by God Himself.

We should never be surprised to hear of Satan's madness. He once asked The Lord of Glory to worship him. We on the other hand shouldn't allow ourselves to be disturbed by these things. What have we to do with Satan or this world. We belong to Christ and no other.

 2012/4/21 3:34
wigglytuff
Member



Joined: 2012/7/27
Posts: 1


 Re:

these people did not teach the pre trib rapture grant geffery a pre trib teacher has been taking htose quotes grossly outta context take a look at what victorinus and shepherd of hermas really said www.oasischristianchurch.org/air/Jeffrey.pdf what ephream and dolcino really said http://www.biblicalstudies.org.uk/pdf/eq/2008-2_143.pdf and what the 17th guys said http://covenant-theology.blogspot.ca/2006/11/thomas-ices-pre-trib-evidence.html and about Joesph Mede,Mede proposed that Christ would suspend believers in the sky (in a non-secret fashion), for a space of hours or a few days, while God defeated the forces of evil on earth and then lowered believers back to earth ... with no period of tribulation taking place in these few hours. Some Christian thinkers who followed Mede parroted him, essentially. This was a rapture only of sorts, far different than what Darby and we envision today. Hence, Darby gets public credit (as I noted) for envisioning full - and secret - rapture followed by an extended period of tribulation prior to a traditional second coming. But you are right, Mede is worth noting, and I have revised my essay to include a line about him. Thanks!

 2012/7/27 13:43Profile









 Re:

Hi wigglytuff. I've never heard of Joseph Mede. Do you know at what point he believes that the saints will be raised? His belief sounds somewhat confusing ... "with no period of tribulation taking place in these few hours". That's a new one.

With me, The LORD used Keith Green to stir me into finally getting down to serious study of just what the Old and New testaments say and compiling all of the verses and chpts from both.
When I was done doing just that - no doubt I was surprised at what The Word was saying, by itself. This was in the mid-80's As it was just Bible and nothing more - I was amazed to see that from Old to New, there were no contradictions and it flowed without any bumps or turns.

I found out just about two months ago, that the site that I've enjoyed for yrs has also done the same and did a small chart of sorts, seperating events, time wise.

http://www.crossroad.to/charts/end-times.htm

I do believe that The Word alone, points to the Last or Seventh Trumpet as the time when the saints meet Him in the air AS He's Returning and will pour out the wrath of GOD of the vials. I suppose one could call that post-trib/pre-wrath.

There's only one verse that causes some post-trib people to believe that He doesn't take them in the air until the very end of the vials [yet protects them] and I have no problem with that. At least they're prepared for anything and they may be right for all that I know - but there's just too much written about the 7th/last trump to persuade me that way.
Some over-lap the seals, trumpets and vials at differing points - but I just can't see where they do over-lap.
Writing down what happens with each of those and then holding that list side-by-side - I just can't see the over-lapping.

Being prepared for 'anything' I believe is the main point in all of this.
Seems definitely important to have that enabling to handle whatever comes.
And to ready to know what to refuse to do.


Thanks and GOD Bless.

 2012/8/11 10:12
psalm1
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 1230


 Re: trib period

I cannot believe such a huge segment of the body of Christ has allowed themselves to be defined through the tribulation period.

The Rapture of the church is simply the groom coming for his bride.

I looked at the charts from that site and it is amazingly void of the obvious scriptures that define Jesus' return for his bride.

It is as if the marriage and gathering of his bride is a token,and interruption of the main theme of whipping his bride into worthiness.

Something to to consider;
Rev 13;7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

Note the utter LACK of protection from God.Power is given to the antichrist to kill the people of God.



15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
Rev 20;
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

It is plain as day,there are no christians left during the great trib for a post trib rapture.



Rev 14;
9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

Here we are told what will happen if you take the mark.Then,"blessed are those that die from henceforth."
No protection whatsoever.In fact it is better to die.

Rev 15;
And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.

2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.

3 And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.

4 Who shall not fear thee, O Lord, and glorify thy name? for thou only art holy: for all nations shall come and worship before thee; for thy judgments are made manifest.


Here are those that got victory over the antichrist via martyrdom.They are in heaven now.

So the presumption that God protects his church during the trib period is false.

Those left behind are killed by anticrist who is empowered from God the kill the saints.
The 144k as well as the 2 witnesses are all killed during the great trib,and ALL ARE FOUND IN HEAVEN!

The huge mega millions of God's people now populating heaven
Have what purpose?
THE WEDDING SUPPER.

All are there.The entire church was raptured and those left behind were martyred.There is not any of God's people on earth at the end of the trib period.

 2012/8/19 12:48Profile





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