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Discussion Forum : Revivals And Church History : Evidence of Genuine Belivers Speaking in Tongues before 1900? (HELP!)

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rbanks
Member



Joined: 2008/6/19
Posts: 1084


 Re:

The Evidence and Results of the Baptism With the Holy Spirit

An experience so great and so important as the baptism with the Holy Spirit undoubtedly will be accompanied by unmistakable evidences, so that the recipient will have no doubts whatsoever that he has indeed received the promise of the Father. Some of the evidence is manifested immediately, while others continue on a permanent basis as one walks in the fullness of the Spirit.

1. Immediate evidences.

a) Speaking with other tongues as the Spirit gives utterance (Acts 2:4; 10:44-46; 19:6). The question of the initial evidence of the reception of the gift of the Holy Spirit is one of paramount importance to all who hunger to be filled with the Spirit. It is logical that the supernatural experience of the baptism with the Holy Spirit would be accompanied by some definite and unmistakable sign by which the seeker would be assured that he had received it. There are many operations of the Spirit, but only one baptism with the Spirit. If there were no particular supernatural evidence of the baptism with the Spirit by which it could be distinguished from all other operations of the Spirit, how could anyone be assured of the experience? We believe that the initial evidence of the baptism with the Holy Spirit is that of speaking with other tongues as the Spirit gives utterance. The evidence of the Spirit's fullness on the Day of Pentecost was that of speaking with other tongues by the prompting of the Holy Spirit: "And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance" (Acts 2:4). The manifestation of the Spirit on the Day of Pentecost was the original outpouring of the empowerment of the Church. It was the pattern for the Pentecostal experience. What the disciples did when they were first filled, we reasonably expect all who are filled in the same sense to do. Inasmuch as the purpose of the anointing was to give power to witness, it is not surprising that the sign of the experience was manifested in their utterance.

In addition to the initial outpouring of the Spirit as recorded in Acts 2:4, we have the account of the reception of the Spirit by the believers in the house of Cornelius, given in Acts 10:44-46:

While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them that heard the word. And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God.

It is interesting and important to note how the Jews who came with Peter knew that these Gentiles had received the Holy Ghost experience that the disciples received on the Day of Pentecost. The Scripture says that they knew because "they heard them speak with tongues." This verse reads literally, "For they, hearing them continuing to speak with tongues." Their speaking in tongues was no brief confusion of syllables, but a full and flowing use of a language, which brought amazement to the hearers. Now, if those present were convinced that the Gentiles had an equivalent Holy Ghost experience to that enjoyed by the Jews on the grounds of their speaking with tongues, then tongues must be the unmistakable sign or initial evidence of the Pentecostal experience. One can know today that his baptism is a genuine Pentecostal experience, equivalent to that of the disciples, when he experiences speaking with other tongues by the power of the Spirit. One does not seek the tongues, but the Spirit Himself. However, he does seek such a sign as will make him sure that he has been filled in biblical fashion.

A third such account of believers receiving the fullness of the Spirit where it is specifically mentioned that they spoke with tongues is recorded in Acts 19:6: "And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied." This was in the city of Ephesus. The theory that some have advanced is that the Spirit's anointing with the evidence of speaking with other tongues was only given when a new racial group accepted the gospel, such as the Jews at Pentecost, the Samaritans in Philip's revival, and the Gentiles in the house of Cornelius. But this theory breaks down here in Acts 19:6, where no new ethnic group can be distinguished. The same could be said of the Corinthians, who certainly spoke with tongues.

Some oppose tongues as the exclusive initial evidence of this baptism on the grounds that tongues are not always mentioned in the Bible in connection with the baptism with the Holy Spirit. It is true that three accounts say nothing of tongues, but the omission is due to the brevity of those accounts. In the record of the outpouring on the Samaritans (Acts 8:14-19) no mention is made of an accompanying sign, but the fact that Simon was willing to pay money for the power to impart the gift of the Spirit shows that some audible or visible sign made the gift spectacular. It is logical to assume that he heard them speak with tongues.

In Acts 4:31 there is no mention of tongues: "And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness." But this could well have been a refilling of those who were initially baptized on the Day of Pentecost.

In Acts 9:17 we do not read that Paul spoke with tongues when he received the Spirit. Nonetheless, that he did is quite certain from his testimony: "I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all" (1 Cor. 14:18).

In this connection, two thoughts should be noted. First, the first and last biblical accounts of the reception of the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:4; 19:6) mention that the recipients spoke with tongues. Secondly, in every account of outpourings of the Holy Spirit where any sign is mentioned, tongues is signified. Where no signs at all are spoken of, there is strong evidence that the recipients did so speak.

The Pentecostal Fellowship of North America is an association of twenty-two of the largest Pentecostal denominations in North America. The statement of faith to which all member groups must agree has as its sixth point: "We believe that the full gospel includes holiness of heart and life, healing for the body and the baptism in the Holy Spirit, with the initial evidence of speaking in other tongues as the Spirit gives utterance."

There are some who teach that the initial evidence of tongues is not always necessary to assure that one has received the fullness of the Spirit, but that any of the other gifts of the Spirit could be the evidence of the Pentecostal experience. These sometimes mention Acts 19:6, where we read, "They spake with tongues, and prophesied."

It is never claimed that all that one will do when filled with the Spirit is to speak with tongues. Other gifts may well be manifested. All that is claimed here is that the newly baptized believers at Ephesus did speak with tongues, as well as prophecy. Why is it claimed that speaking with tongues is the sign of the filling more than any other gift of the Spirit? Because all of the gifts of the Spirit were more or less manifested in Old Testament times, with the lone exception of speaking with other tongues and its accompanying gift of interpretation of tongues.

• The word of wisdom—Joshua (Dt. 34:9) and Solomon (1 Ki. 3:9-12)
• The word of knowledge—Bezaleel (Ex. 31:3)
• Faith—Abraham (Gen. 15:6)
• Gifts of healing—Elijah (1 Ki. 17:17-23) and Elisha (2 Ki. 4:18-37)
• Working of miracles—Elijah (2 Ki. 1:10), Elisha (2 Ki. 6:4-7), and Moses (Ex. 7:10, 20)
• Prophecy—Isaiah, David (2 Sam. 23:2), and Balaam (Num. 24:2)
• Discerning of spirits—Ahijah (1 Ki. 14:1-6) and Moses (Ex. 32:17-19)


God was doing a new thing at Pentecost—something never experienced before—and the sign accompanying it was something never witnessed previously. Thus, it was a most significant sign.

b) Important points to note:

(1) Speaking in tongues is not the baptism with the Holy Spirit. It is the initial evidence, but not the only one.

(2) Do not seek to speak with tongues as though it were the baptism with the Holy Spirit—seek more of God and yield to Him. He will take care of the rest.

(3) It may well be true that some have apparently spoken in tongues who have not received the baptism with the Holy Spirit—the word apparently is used because it is believed that many of these are not real languages at all. The devil has a counterfeit for this gift, as he does for all others, but the earnest seeker for more of God need have no fear whatever that he is going to receive anything but God's best (Lk. 11:11-13).

c) Other immediate evidences of a new experience of the anointing of the Spirit in the life will include praise to God (Acts 2:11; 2:47; 10:46), an overflowing joy (Acts 2:46), and a deep burden and desire to preach or testify about Jesus (Acts 1:8; 2:14-18; 19:6).

2. Permanent evidences.

a) Jesus Christ glorified and revealed as never before (Jn. 14:21-23; 15:26; 16:13-15). The Holy Spirit centers all things in Christ. A new love is born for Him that will increase as one follows on in the Spirit-filled life. The Holy Spirit imparts the ability to comprehend the greatness of the Savior—His person and provisions (Eph. 1:17-23). It is recognized that many of these Scriptures are realized through the ministry of the Holy Spirit as the Comforter who indwells all believers, but experience demonstrates that all ministries of the Holy Spirit are enhanced as a result of the Pentecostal baptism with the Spirit.

b) A deeper passion for souls. One cannot read the history of the early Church immediately after Pentecost without realizing how there was a burning desire to proclaim the way of salvation (Acts 2:14-41; 4:19-20; 5:29-33; 6:8-10; 11:22-24; 26:28-29).

c) A greater power to witness (Acts 1:8; 2:41; 4:31-33; Jn. 15:26-27; 1 Cor. 2:4-5).

d) A new power in, and spirit of, prayer (Acts 3:1, 4:23-31; 6:4; 10:9; Rom. 8:26; Jude 20; Eph. 6:18; 1 Cor. 14:14-17).

e) A deeper love for, and richer insight into, the Word of God (Jn. 16:13).

f) The manifestations of the gifts of the Spirit (1 Cor. 12:4-11).

Foundations of Pentecostal Theology.

 2012/3/6 10:24Profile









 Re:

Approved...

Quote:
For someone who rejects the "speaking in tongues" you seem to know a lot about the subject.



Really? You know this? Did you even read what I wrote?

Quote:
Since you don't believe that this gift (tongues of Angels) exist today and believe that those who speak in tongues today are deceived, and frankly you don't know what your talking about when you say that God does not honour prayers offered in tongues.



Wow... you totally did not read what I wrote. Go back and read what I wrote and you will see that what you just said in that paragraph is foolish.

Quote:
The obvious answer is not your "NO". The answer is "NOT EVERYONE".



Uh... yea... thats what I said. The answer to the question of "do all speak with tongues" is NO... not all do. Thats what I said.

Quote:
When you say that the gift is the lowest, your putting also everything else on that list. Apostles, Prophets, Teachers, Miracle Workers, Gifts of healing.



Read Chapter 13 (the very next Chapter... of which Paul introduced in the last verse of Chapter 12 with "now I will show you a better way")

Quote:
Your instructions are, to be quiet about it, use it according to His will and use it in your prayer closet.



You got that part right! Yea!

Quote:
Your encouragement is very weak brother, "I hope you do" is so so lame coming from you. It's like the baptist who believes that tongues should be in order in Church but don't allow it to manifest. Good one man!



Again, you are making foolish assumptions about me.

Quote:
Even though this is the least of the gifts....



Wait... you scolded me for saying that...

I could respond to more, but whats the point? Your whole response is based on two things:

1) I dont believe you carefully read what I wrote. You could not have and reacted to it and me the way you did.

2) You have made assumptions about me and what I believe when in fact you really have no idea what I believe on the matter.

Love ya brother but your reaction was baseless, judgemental and frankly rather foolish because you've never asked me what I believe on this, altho it was stated and/or implied in what I wrote.

Notice I have never made statements declaring what YOU believe. Why? Because I am wise enough to realize I dont know you well enough to know what you believe.

Krispy

 2012/3/6 10:43









 Re:

rbanks... that speaking in tongues is the initial evidence of being baptised in the Spirit is an opinion based doctrine. Not every case in scripture shows it being so. It's a stretch. Interestly this is the difference between Pentecostalism and Charismatic... Pentecostals believe it is the initial evidence, and Charismatics generally give room to the fact that it is not always accompanied with it (just as Paul wrote in Corinthians 12).

I would mention what Baptists teach, but lately there has been a lot of hostility and hatred of Baptists on this site... so I wont go there.

Krispy

 2012/3/6 10:49
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 2229
East TN (for the time being)

 Re:

Quote:
krispy wrote:
Let's not get carried away... praying for someone's needs in tongues is no more powerful than not. God does not honor prayers offered in tongues anymore than He does the simple plea of a child or an adult who approaches Him as a little child.


Were you speaking to me because of what I wrote: “When he has a need someday, offer to pray for him and allow him to experience your gift, the Lord might work mightily through that.” I’m going on “IF YOU WERE” speaking to me (huge grin), ok? (If not, please disregard)

First: I didn’t say that God honored tongues more than anyone else’s prayers, you assumed that.

Secondly: In my experience, praying in tongues for someone’s need is indeed more powerful than praying in English. I support that with what Jesus said in John 16.13, “Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but WHATSOEVER HE SHALL HEAR, THAT SHALL HE SPEAK...”

The Holy Spirit speaks what He hears so I am confident that whenever I am praying in tongues, God is honoring it. When we pray in the Spirit, He is the one praying, brother, not us! And thank God for it!

God bless,
Lisa


_________________
"I was seized by the power of a great affection."
~ Brennan Mannings

Since He looked upon me, my heart is not my own. He hath run away to heaven with it. ~ Samuel Rutherford

 2012/3/6 11:09Profile









 Re:

Lysa, I did not say God does not honor it. If you look at what you just wrote you will realize that we said the exact same thing.

This is what happens when people expect me to say one thing because of assumptions they've made about me, and then I dont say what they expect. What I really am saying gets completely by-passed.

Krispy

 2012/3/6 11:31
Joyful_Heart
Member



Joined: 2009/12/8
Posts: 1795


 Re:

Please forgive me. My reply was not fitting and I truly apologize. Not worth keeping.


_________________
Yet I will rejoice in the LORD, I will joy in the God of my salvation. Hab 3:18

The LORD thy God in the midst of thee is mighty; he will save, he will rejoice over thee with joy; he will rest in his love, he will joy over thee with singing. Zephaniah 3:17

 2012/3/6 11:39Profile
HeartSong
Member



Joined: 2006/9/13
Posts: 3005


 Re:


"Without the Holy Spirit there is no power."

Amen.


_________________
"Do what thou wilt." - Satan

 2012/3/6 11:45Profile
gators52
Member



Joined: 2011/9/21
Posts: 58


 Re:

Joyful heart, a testimony...:-) I was in the back of this small church one Sunday evening and worshipping the Lord before the pastor came and spoke. Well during the worship he asked for an altar call and the majority of the people left their seats and moved up front. About that time I sank to my knees and was continuing to worship the lord. My son who is now 8 was 6 then, crawled into my lap at that time and the next thing I know I look down and he is praying in tongues as fluently as any grown adult can speak their native tongue. It was such an amazing time. One that I will always cherish.

 2012/3/6 11:56Profile
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 2229
East TN (for the time being)

 Re: Evidence of Genuine Belivers Speaking in Tongues before 1900? (HELP!)


EvangelTam, please forgive me for taking part in hijacking your thread. I didn't start it but I would hope to bring it to a close. God bless, Lisa

Quote:
Some people are given the gift of tongues, and some are not. Scripture is VERY plain about that. Let's not be ignorant.


I have heard you and others declare this many times over, so please let’s go over that bit of Scripture.... According to 1 Cor 12.28, Paul states “God has set some in the church (Greek – PUBLIC ASSEMBLY)...” This word ‘church’ (public assembly) is quite important because it describes a public meeting “place” where the people of God gather together.

And it’s here in this “public gathering” that God has set first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

Please read the above again.... Paul states very clearly what a healthy public assembly should look like and what is definitely listed or included? Different kinds of tongues are and no exceptions are made.

In verses 29 & 30, Paul continues on talking about the healthy public assembly and who is included... Can all be apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles? Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?”

Paul is saying that not every single person (all) in the public assembly can be an apostle, nor can they all be a prophet, nor can they all be a teacher, nor can they all be a worker or miracles, nor can they all have the gifts of healing, nor can they all be a speak with tongues,.

Brother, I humbly submit that what Paul is commenting on here is that ALL cannot give messages PUBLICLY in tongues to the church. I submit that because all the other gifts that he listed with it are gifts that are used publically; you can’t teach alone, you need people to learn; you can’t be an apostle alone, you need to build a churches with people; you can’t heal alone, you need sick people to heal. Does that make sense?

Another reason for my believing that is in 1 Cor 14.28 Paul states very plainly that IN THE CHURCH it is OK to speak in tongues to yourself and to God if there is no interpreter.... “but if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.” We are meant to speak in tongues in our homes and in the public assembly.

I believe that God means for all his children to speak in tongues “IF” they want the gift and I believe that our adversary, the devil, has taken that one statement “do all speak with tongues?” and robbed the children of God from having a full Spirit-filled life.

God bless you all,
Lisa


_________________
"I was seized by the power of a great affection."
~ Brennan Mannings

Since He looked upon me, my heart is not my own. He hath run away to heaven with it. ~ Samuel Rutherford

 2012/3/6 12:20Profile









 Re:

Obviously some of this I agree with you, sister Lisa... but some of it I do not. I am rock solid on what I believe scripture teaches concerning this topic... so while I appreciate you writing this all out for me, it was not necessary.

:-)

Krispy

 2012/3/6 12:28





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