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Whether someone sees themselves one way or the other - their eyes are "still on SELF" and that's where the Church Triumphant stands apart and walks in the "Overcoming" covering of The LORD!
Paul could say to the Saints, "follow me as I follow Christ".
There will be a Triumphant Church that have their eyes on Him alone and not caught into one self 'conscious' state nor the other.
Quotes from The Word and men like Watchman Nee would be beneficial, to learn of the Victorious walk of the redeemed, that know that in their flesh, dwells no good thing - but in Christ - their old man has been crucified with Christ and it is now HIM that dwells and works in and 'through' them ... eyes Off of self entirely and looking unto Jesus, The Author and Finisher of our faith. More than Conquerers through Him that loves us and paid 'that price' to make us new creatures - His Bride - His Body - with eyes off of self and completely on her Beloved.
| 2012/3/28 11:42|
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Quote: Where did that come from Sister? I hope that wasn't inferred.
For myself, I would prefer to be included in the group of Saints you mention in your city. Rather than to be lifting up myself in my own eyes.
When I said that God sends me to them to encourage them, I am saying that in all meekness and sincerity of spirit. I do not go to them having all the answers, I look at them as beloved of God and myself as nothing. I am in my own pit of despair. I hear what other brothers say about me. I hear things like, "he never seems to have a problem, he always has a smile, he's a good brother". People covet my presence, and believe me, I don't know why. If they only knew me. If they only knew what kind of a person I am alone. But that is God for you. He takes what we pray in secret and rewards us openly.
I look at myself as vile, but the scriptures tells me that God does not see us that way. And I struggle to believe that.
| 2012/3/28 12:48|
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As a Grand-mother with grand-children that I want to see come to know Jesus in His fullness and His Truth by the Whole counsel of GOD's Word and experiential knowledge of HIM .....
Can you picture where the Church would be over these last two thousand years if all that Paul or John or the others that penned the New Testament wrote to the Early Church was ...
"You're vile." and nothing more?
Christianity would have died out before the first year was up [if not sooner] - if that was their "Good News" with nothing more written of what Christ had done for mankind but tell them - "You're vile", nothing more.
Despite how many Authors or Scriptures posted from various sources - that was not ALL that they wrote about our state in Christ.
I've been around these type folks and they do not win one soul to Christ nor do they do anything other than live from day to day to tell "others" that they're vile.
Paul speaks at least twice about those with a false humility.
A person that truly believes that they are vile, sees all others as better than themselves and couldn't even lift their head up to spue out cursings and insults at others, as Joe finds so easy to do.
Hogwash, Joe. If you truly saw yourself as "vile", you'd barely be able to open your mouth, nonetheless judge most of the Christians here by saying that you can't call the most "Brother".
Humility, my foot! You're just an accuser of the brethren and this thread is laughable, considering how you've treated many of us, over the yrs, while claiming to be a humble man by saying that you see yourself as "vile".
Pure laughable hogwash ... nothing more.
Ah, to be a fly on the wall for a week or two of these self-proclaimed "humble because they see themselves as vile" folks. All of the grace that pours out of them to others on a public forum would probably be only the mild side of what we see of them, and their thought life as well.
"From such, turn away." 2 Tim 3:5
| 2012/3/28 13:59|
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im not taking sides here at all
but a verse comes to mind also "where paul calls our bodies vile" these will be changed into glories bodies
So Paul saw himself as in a vile body and called himself the cheif of sinners.
I think since the fall of creation and coruption entering the world we have become vile creatours compared to what we will be we stink ,we fart ,we get rotton teath we get old and feel wreatcherd ,our hair falles out ,we have hormonal problems that effect our moods ,we sweat and stink ,this is vile in ascence and is not gods oridginal creation,,it is courptions ,,and that is a vile things,sin is a vile thing we are still prone to fall into sin and argure that is a vile thing. tho we have been given a holy spirit which is pure and perfect we are still in a vile earthern vesel.
we still fall short of gods glory ,its vile
ohhh how terable is sin that jesus was slaughterd on the cross for our sin "OUR SIN" that is vile on our part
there is a scence that the saints still vile in body and in actions but haliluya we have a savour that is not vile and he laid his perfect body and life on the cross as propisation for our vilness ,and imputes is perfectness to us and takes our vilness and cancels it out on the cross ,OHHH WHAT A SAVOUR WE HAVE BRETHERN
IM NOT SAYING THIS TO agree with joe
i dont like the spirit joes has ,,sorry joe
but there is truth in our vilness ,and it should only act as a catalass to cause us to praise god more ,and glorafie his holyness
but we long to be fully conformed to the image of christ ,,when we see him we will be like him for we will see him as he is. in the twimkling of an eye come lord come
| 2012/3/28 18:49||Profile|
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Strongs says this about the word "vile" in the scripture you were using.
From G4982; the body (as a sound whole), used in a very wide application, literally or figuratively: - bodily, body, slave.
"very wide application".
The human body is good and that is what God said after He created it. Fleshly and Carnal desires are not.
The human body is what God has chosen to transmit His truth and love through. First through Jesus and now through His Church (via the Holy Spirit). He uses the human body to preach the Gospel.
Following after the flesh should be differentiated from the human body. The human body by itself is a beautiful and wonderful creation.
The human body is just our container, or carton. It is harmless until it is yielded, either to Satan or the Holy Spirit. You can yield it to holiness or sin, righteousness or unrighteousness.
Rom 6:19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
Catholic in the Dark Ages thought the human body was evil and sought to torture it into submission (flagellation, penance, etc.). The Battle is Spiritual not with flesh and blood can apply to this subject, also.
| 2012/3/28 19:17||Profile|
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Hi Brother Gary. We know and have posted several times over the years what Paul had said and we say of ourselves, that we know that in our flesh, dwells no good thing.
I also don't believe that Joe is referring to our physical body.
What has broken the camel's back with some of us - maybe you weren't here for - but it was the accusations being thrown at those that believe in obedience to Him and His Word. One such thread was about the Lordship doctrine.
I don't believe that these Biblical beliefs need a 'name' with '-isms or -ships' at the end of them - but they were discussing mere obedience to Him as our LORD, which is what I witnessed and experienced - where Joe showed us his true colors. We were mocked and belittled for believing in obedience to Him and His Word. Not just on that one thread, but other threads as well - whenever obedience would be mentioned by some of us. Mainly some Brothers got a lot of Joe's railing against them for believing these things - going way beyond any acceptable reproofs, but cursing the vast Majority of us all to Hell - literally.
As far as I'm concerned, that is a fulfullment of the entire chpt of 2 Tim 3, and not just verse 5 that I quoted part of above.
Only wolves in sheep's clothing would tear at His Sheep in the fashion that this man has.
Vile is only mentioned 3 times since Christ came to earth and only Romans 1 comes close to what some of us have seen on these threads.
| 2012/3/28 19:42|
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As stated in the beginning, this thread was for those who see themselves as vile. For those who are above this there is really no need for you to come back to the thread. You have taken your seat at the front of the wedding, and none here will move you.
The thread is for those who see themselves as Spurgeon, Wesley, Watson, Ironside, Owen, Job, Paul, Isaiah, and others saw themselves.
It has always been a strange thing within christendom, often the chaff sees itself as wheat, and the wheat sees itself as chaff. Much time is spent on dealing with the former, but here we are comforting the latter....
| 2012/3/28 20:24|
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I certainly see myself vile in respect to ME. Christ is not vile, Christ in me is not vile. But, I, me, my am always vile. What credit can I take for anything?
So, what's the big problem here? Doesn't everyone believe this about THEMSELVES? Christ makes all the difference. We are containers and He is the contents. When we try to be the contents we are vile.
| 2012/3/28 20:33||Profile|
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Pro 29:25 The fear of man bringeth a snare: but whoso putteth his trust in the LORD shall be safe.
| 2012/3/28 21:41|
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I think brother Compton's story from earlier on in this thread bears repeating..........
"One day at Synagogue, a Rabbi stands up before the congregation and cries aloud "Lord, I am nothing!" The Chazzan, not to be outdone, then stands up and also cries aloud, "Lord, I am nothing!" Feeling the need to be a good exemplar for the congregation, the Gabbai rises and proclaims, "Lord, I am nothing!" Meanwhile, in the rear of the synagogue, a janitor was so moved that he drops to his knees next to his mop and bucket, and with tearful trembling prays quietly, "Lord, I am nothing!". The Rabbi, upon spying the kneeling janitor, elbows the Chazzan and Gabbai, and under his breath says to them indignantly, "Look who thinks he's nothing."
You see how this story reveals how coniving the sin of pride is? The more a man speaks of his own vileness the more pride floods in. The man who has encountered the manifest presence of God will not only know that he is undone, he will be taken up by the majesty and the glory of God and he will marvel how God could love him, but the revelation is that he does.
I have seen people competing to see who was the most vile, usually they add the word " worm,' so we have " vile worms." I have even seen people crawl under pews to prove that they were more vile than the next guy. JIG is right, the focus is always on the man, always. Jesus and the beauty of His holiness and the joy of His love is lost to people who go down this road. Just once I would like to hear some of the folks who have the ministry of vileness talk about the joy of the Lord and His glory.There is always balance in the saints who are led by the Holy Spirit. The good news of the Gospel is that Jesus our lord came to heal the brokenhearted, to seek and to save the lost, to set at liberty the captives because our Father so loved the world, while they were yet in their sin, that He sent His precious Son to die on the cross for the whosoever. Praise the Lord for His full Gospel.....bro Frank
| 2012/3/28 22:13|