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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : The vileness of the saint

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Elibeth
Member



Joined: 2011/8/14
Posts: 1049


 Re:

Continue:,

Here is the (2) places I have found in the new testament mentioning
The word: "vile"

(1).. Rom.1:26,..(in this place,..It is talking about a very "vile" person.)
The Strongs # for this word 819----women to women, men to men lusting after each other, wickedness,unrighteousness, covetiousness,envy,
haters of God,strife,murderers,etc,etc,etc...

(2)Phil.3:21,...(the way in which this word, "vile" is used,is different.)
The Strongs # is 5014,-----
The verse,20,21,...For our citizenship is in heaven,from which also we look for the Saviour,the Lord Jesus Christ,(vs.21),who shall change our
[ vile] [ lowly] body,that it might be fashioned like His glorious body,
according to the working by which He is able to subdue all things unto Himself.
* in this the word vile, or lowly is being used,...
It is the same word used,when The Mother of Jesus,is magnifying the Lord,
#5014,..(Lk.1:48),.. "For He hath regarded the ' low ' estate of His handmaiden;...
Also Eph.4:2, (same # lowliness),and Phil.2:3

I know you have been talking in the Old Testament,..I did not check there,
But wanted to look in the New Testament.

Yes, we have a Lively Hope,..and aren't we so very thankful ?
Blessings Joe,
elizabeth

 2012/3/12 19:07Profile









 Re:

Another John Owen gem on the subject:

“And hence we may see what wisdom is required in the guiding and management of our hearts and ways before God. Where the subjects of a ruler are in feuds and oppositions one against another, unless great wisdom be used in the government of the whole, all things will quickly be ruinous in that state. There are these contrary principles in the hearts of believers. And if they labor not to be spiritually wise, how shall they be able to steer their course aright? Many men live in the dark to themselves all their days; whatever else they know, they know not themselves. They know their outward estates, how rich they are, and the condition of their bodies as to health and sickness they are careful to examine; but as to their inward man, and their principles as to God and eternity, they know little or nothing of themselves. Indeed, few labor to grow wise in this matter, few study themselves as they ought, are acquainted with the evils of their own hearts as they ought; on which yet the whole course of their obedience, and consequently of their eternal condition, doth depend.”

OJ

 2012/3/27 0:21









 Re:

Quote:
Yes, we have a Lively Hope,..and aren't we so very thankful ?



Indeed we do Elibeth, in spite of our own vileness! Now THAT is grace!!!

The vileness of the saint is simply the estimation he has of himself after having been humbled in the presence of God, such that he can say no good thing about himself. If there is anything good to be said it is to be left to others.

Prov 27:2 Let another man praise thee, and not thine own mouth; a stranger, and not thine own lips.

Same principle in the New Testament

Luke 14:8-11

8 When thou art bidden of any man to a wedding, sit not down in the highest room; lest a more honourable man than thou be bidden of him;

9 And he that bade thee and him come and say to thee, Give this man place; and thou begin with shame to take the lowest room.

10 But when thou art bidden, go and sit down in the lowest room; that when he that bade thee cometh, he may say unto thee, Friend, go up higher: then shalt thou have worship in the presence of them that sit at meat with thee.

11 For whosoever exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.


Or here as well.

1 Cor 11:31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.

This is one thing that the natural man simply cannot do, it is the stumblingstone in coming to Christ.

Blessings in return Elibeth,

OJ

 2012/3/27 0:31
Elibeth
Member



Joined: 2011/8/14
Posts: 1049


 Re:

Joe,

Thank you for your kind response.

The Lord bless you as we grow up unto Him,

Who is all deserving of all praise forever and always.

elizabeth

 2012/3/27 21:09Profile
AdamPaul
Member



Joined: 2011/9/6
Posts: 2
Woodstock, GA

 Re: Vileness of a Saint

You know a great personal testimony on this subject can be found in the Audio book section under Jonathan Edwards. Go to the Biography of David Brainerd Part 1. His testimony on this struggle is a great encouragement. Thank you for sharing, it's so true.


_________________
Adam Cartner

 2012/3/27 21:40Profile









 Re:

Here is how Jeremiah Burroughs says it.

"Christ teaches the soul this, so that, as in the presence of God on a real sight of itself, it can say: 'Lord, I am nothing, Lord, I deserve nothing, Lord, I can do nothing, I can receive nothing, and can make use of nothing, I am worse than nothing, and if I come to nothing and perish I will be no loss at all and therefore is it such a great thing for me to be cut short here?' A man who is little in his own eyes will account every affliction as little, and every mercy as great. Consider Saul: There was a time, the Scripture says, when he was little in his own eyes, and then his afflictions were but little to him: when some would not have had him to be King but spoke contemptuously of him, he held his peace; but when Saul began to be big in his own eyes, then the affliction began to be great to him."

OJ

 2012/3/27 23:56









 Charles Wesley's idea about our lame and corrupt nature.

UNFAILING AND RELENTLESS LOVE.
My favorite song; poem.


"My strength is gone, my nature dies;
I sink beneath your weighty hand.
Faint to revive, and fall to rise;
I fall, and yet by faith I stand.


I stand, and will not let you go, until your name ,
your Nature know.


Lame as I am, I take the prey;
Hell , Earth, and Sin, with ease overcome.
I leap for joy, pursue my way
and as a leaping hart fly home;
through All Eternity to Prove,
YOUR NATURE AND YOUR NAME IS LOVE!"


Charles Wesley.

 2012/3/28 7:59









 Re:

vile (vl)
adj. vil·er, vil·est
1. Loathsome; disgusting: vile language.
2. Unpleasant or objectionable: vile weather.
3.a. Contemptibly low in worth or account; second-rate.
b. Of mean or low condition.
4. Miserably poor and degrading; wretched: a vile existence.
5. Morally depraved; ignoble or wicked: a vile conspiracy.
[Middle English, from Old French, from Latin vlis, cheap, worthless; see wes-3 in Indo-European roots.]

Acts 13:46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and JUDGE YOURSELVES UNWORTHY of EVERLASTING LIFE, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.

Job was under the Old Testament of laws and curses. If you obeyed it great, if not, your cursed. The law could not take away the consciousnesses of sin, though they sacrificed and did all the requirements that the law demanded, it never took away the sin, it never took away the consciousness of sin like we have today under the blood Christ.

So yes, a man under such a system can look at himself as vile seeing that his sins were not purged until the day of Christ.

Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

We have a Full Assurance of faith that our hearts have been sprinkled from an evil conscience so that we no longer live in such a vile condition and having to loathe that which Christ has purchased with His precious blood.

We do enough loathing of ourselves in our own strength because our feelings of inadequacies, our short comings and our falling short.

We are no longer falling short of the glory of God if we come to Him by faith through the merits of Jesus Christ. We can touch God now, before we could not because the demands of the law through the flesh weakened our ability to reach God.

Now through the merits and work of the Father through His Son Jesus, we are able to come boldly into the throne room of grace and obtain mercy in the time of need. If we looked upon ourselves with contempt,, there would be no faith to come boldly to the throne room because we'd be ever believing that we have no self worth. Nay, God would have to save us from such a state and encourage us and cause us to be worthy so we can run to Him in full assurance. That alone is a great undertaking because the Church world already feels the burden of condemnation, the sense of being cheap and worthless.

I for one am against the notion that saints need to look at themselves as vile. The saints that I know of in my city already think that way and it's heavily mixed with condemnation. If God were for it, why would He see the need to send me to them to encourage them that they are not vile, that they are not worthless and cheap?

It was a lambs blood that was mopped on the lintels of the doors in Egypt.

How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?


 2012/3/28 9:25
Elibeth
Member



Joined: 2011/8/14
Posts: 1049


 Re:


Yes,

The words that am reading ,....the words that you brothers have put forth

by Jeremiah Burroughs,

..David Brainerd,..and Charles Wesley,...they are so good to my taste,

this most beautiful morning that the Lord has gave us to enjoy.

And yes,the Words came up into my spirit this morning,..

* We are to decrease,..and He is to increase

Blessings this day,
elizabeth

 2012/3/28 10:03Profile
White_Stone
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 1196
North Central Florida

 Re:

Approved, you said.

"So yes, a man under such a system can look at himself as vile seeing that his sins were not purged until the day of Christ."

and

"I for one am against the notion that saints need to look at themselves as vile. The saints that I know of in my city already think that way and it's heavily mixed with condemnation. If God were for it, why would He see the need to send me to them to encourage them that they are not vile, that they are not worthless and cheap?"


In reply to the first quote. . .

Nothing within man has changed, we still have the same nature. Without the Nature of Jesus Christ indwelling us there is still no good in us.

In reply to the second quote. . .

This is covered very well here: Prov 27:2 Let another man praise thee, and not thine own mouth; a stranger, and not thine own lips.

For myself, I would prefer to be included in the group of Saints you mention in your city. Rather than to be lifting up myself in my own eyes.

Lord willing you will come to see things from the perspective of being at the feet of Jesus.

Kind regards,
white stone


_________________
Janice

 2012/3/28 10:22Profile





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