SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Image Map
Discussion Forum : General Topics : Christians and the Arts

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 )
PosterThread
roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3776


 Re:

Quote:
In such a state of mind,



It’s been said that the church keeps the psychiatrists in business. That may very well be related to our theology – not in creed of course, but in our subliminal practice.

It never occurred to me that society’s artists, novelists, composers, etc might help us understand ourselves better – when our theologians can’t get us there.


Diane


_________________
Diane

 2012/2/29 11:06Profile
MaryJane
Member



Joined: 2006/7/31
Posts: 3057


 Re:

greetings

I have been considering this topic and still have some linger doubts on a personal level. For a while I use to write, my area was fictional romantic. I belonged to a rather large community of other writers and we shared our work with each other for editing, feedback, and help in getting published. Several of the ladies from my group have gone on to do very well and are published now. I really enjoyed writing and was greatly encouraged by other authors to pursue the story I was working on at the time. The struggle came in as I grew closer in my walk with the LORD. I felt a desire to express my love for the LORD through my characters as well as pull back on some of the more worldly themes in most modern romances. My peers in the group took notice and while they understood eventually it came down to the point if I was not willing to "add" certain elements into my story to give it a broader reading base then it would not sell. My story was not a christian romance but because I was unwilling to add worldly elements into the plot those in the business of publishing were not interested. I understood their point of view they were in the business of publishing books and making money. IT was a real struggle for me, I really love writing but in the end I just realized that for myself the temptation of "selling" books was to great and I would have to compromise in my walk in order to accomplish that. Of course there is always the possibility that I was not that great a writer to begin with sense I could not find a way of writing my story to please the world at large and still walk in what I knew was right before the LORD...:)

Of course this is just my personal experience and not meant to be a reflection on anyone else pursuits in these areas. I thank GOD for all the gifts and talents HE gives us.

IT is a good topic Krispy thank you for bring here has given me much to think about to be sure.

God Bless
mj

 2012/2/29 11:14Profile
Compton
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 2732


 Re:

MJ, I very much appreciate the experiences and perspective you bring to this conversation.

Quote:
My peers in the group took notice and while they understood eventually it came down to the point if I was not willing to "add" certain elements into my story to give it a broader reading base then it would not sell.



All my life, I've had the mixed blessing of blending my professional pursuits and personal passions up into one tangled ball:) Something I am continually surprised by, is that not even "artists" can agree on what "art" is. What we call art is really a bundle of many things.

Over the years I've developed some simple language for helping myself, and my company, untangle the issues that make up creativity and design in constructive ways that do not demean either the personal nor the commercial aspects of art.

To begin with, when we are creating anything, whether it be a novel or a website, we are engaging three separate concerns.

1) Materials (or media)
2) Audience (or market)
3) Ideas (or meaning)

Now we may see that a certain artist is engaged in an idea that would sorely compromise our faith, and come to the conclusion that art compromises faith....but this is an unnecessary conclusion. This is why I have a great deal of grace towards Christians who who are critical of the arts...most of the time they are not critical of paint, pens, or pianos. Most of the time they are critical of the horrendous ideas those materials have been used to express. (Although there are some sensible people, who honestly do not see any value in anything as impractical as a painting or a poem for any purpose.)

Quote:
I really love writing but in the end I just realized that for myself the temptation of "selling" books was to great and I would have to compromise in my walk in order to accomplish that.



In your case, you are committed to an idea that does not compromise your faith. I'll tell you plainly Mary Jane, you were more of an artist the day you decided not to write anything, rather then seek to become a commercially successful craftsmen engaging your materials and your audience, but disengaging your conscience.

Blessings,

MC


_________________
Mike Compton

 2012/2/29 12:10Profile









 Re:

I can certainly understand where you are coming from MJ. To be sure, anything I write would never contain elements that you would find in a Steven King novel or many other popular novelists. We cant go there as Christians, nor do I have any desire to go there. If a story is good enough it can be told without lurid imagery or vulgar language. In fact, if it is well written that stuff can be absent and the reader will never notice.

As for publishing, the rules have turned upside down on their heads now-a-days since the invention of the Kindle and Nook. Some of the biggest sellers today are not being "published" or even printed by the big publishing companies. People are now "self-publishing" by uploading their novels and books to Amazon and/or Barnes & Noble.

Some authors are actually making much more money that way than if they got a publishing contract because generally first time authors are lucky if they get 6% from the publishers. Self publishing for Kindle and Nook you can get close to 50%. Granted, the price is much much lower in those venues... but many are still doing quite well with that set up.

It's also been a stepping stone for some authors to land contracts with regular publishers. Sell enough books for Kindle and Nook and punlishers will take notice.

You should look into that, MJ.

Krispy

PS: I am a realist, I do not anticipate becoming a famous author. Writing is something that I love and enjoy. I want to write something people will want to read... but for me, right now, it's fun.

 2012/2/29 12:11
Compton
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 2732


 Re:

Quote:
It never occurred to me that society’s artists, novelists, composers, etc might help us understand ourselves better – when our theologians can’t get us there.




I couldn't agree more.

Human beings were created to live within conceptual frameworks of words and images. We are self reflective in ways that are singularly unique in all of creation.

The highest good of influence, whether the person be an an artist or a theologian, is to help form conceptual frameworks in people's minds that resemble the truth. We intepret what we experience through frameworks and narritives that we sometimes arent even aware of consciously. This is one reason I believe Jesus used parables and symbols...to help us understand reality better.

Att the end of the day, both the theologian and the artist are really just two names for the same objective...to influence and shape peoples perception of the world. Perhaps that's why so many theologians are quick to rail against artists...they feel their toes are being stepped on.

And then again, perhaps this is also why still many more theologians affirm artists. They don't see artists as rivals, but co-laborers.

Because it seems to me that more of the language in the bible resembles the earnest expression of the artist, more then it does the scientific descriptive expressions of the theologian. Perhaps theologians are good at deconstructing, describing, and systemizing...but maybe we need a more whole brained expression in all its local congregational forms to balance the equation. Perhaps we need a way of looking that doesn't only want to see the various parts of our faith, but also a way that also seeks to embrace the whole.

Blessings,

MC


_________________
Mike Compton

 2012/2/29 15:02Profile
roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3776


 Re:

Quote:
The highest good of influence, whether the person be an artist or a theologian, is to help form conceptual frameworks in people's minds that resemble the truth. We intepret what we experience through frameworks and narritives that we sometimes arent even aware of consciously. This is one reason I believe Jesus used parables and symbols...to help us understand reality better.



Compton, you have a keen eye! Besides you artists, perhaps some of those best able to form such conceptual frameworks and narratives in people’s minds are our therapists and counselors. These people understand their enormous benefits for healing among the distraught and troubled individuals of our society. Human experience, to be sure, is intensely artistic – shaped by narratives and unspoken realities. Here’s where science - which is “solely” concerned about reality, actually loses its grip on reality. From this perspective, the Bible is far more in touch with reality than given credit.

Quote:
Because it seems to me that more of the language in the bible resembles the earnest expression of the artist, more then it does the scientific descriptive expressions of the theologian.



We would do well then to revive scripture’s narrative dimension and the experiential expressions of its characters.

Thankfully there are theologians today who acknowledge the narrative value of scripture – and also the full expression of human experience. We now have the theology of the oppressed, whereas once it was primarily a theology of the dominant – those who held the reigns and the power.

Today the theology of sin includes not merely assertive deliberate acts, but also passivity, lethargy, slide-into-powerlessness, and self-hatred. Even here in the theology of sin – artistic expression has a vital place. I recall seeing a composite drawing by a teen who throughout her childhood was repetitively assaulted sexually by her babysitter. During therapy she drew simple symbols to depict her life story as seen through her eyes. In the first frame she drew “Me” represented as a circle beside “Him” drawn as a same-sized circle. In each subsequent frame, she drew “Me” smaller and “Him” bigger. Even after he had moved far away and was out of her narrative, her drawings revealed an ever-decreasing size of “Me” and an increasing the size of “Him” – till “Me” was a dot barely visible, and “Him” encompassed the entire frame. That’s how she saw herself - worthless and nothing – even though he was long gone. Had she been required to use words only, or the language of social science, she would never have made this self-discovery – so essential in her journey to forgiveness and new vibrant life in Christ.

Krispy’s thread theme, in itself, is serving to remind us that art, literature, fiction, or any artistic expression is essential for our wellbeing – even in all its rugged and agonizing portrayals.

Krispy and Mary Jane – this reminds me that your writing gifts will always have an honorable place in your Christian life.

Diane




_________________
Diane

 2012/2/29 17:27Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7471
Mississippi

 Re: Christians and the Arts

Ok, Krispy, I want to present to you a challenge - and I am serious about this one! {{Smile}}

Have you ever read Lloyd C. Douglas' writings, his novels? "The Robe" is likely his most famous one. His novels used to a favorite one of mine when I was reading novels - to me they were second to none (Thomas B. Costain ran a close second as did Lew Wallace.). His novels taught one a lot, all wrapped up in an edifying story.

One of his books, "Home for Christmas", is a favorite of mine, one I have read so many times I have lost count. It is a fun book to read, one that I read ever so slowly, savoring each adverb, adjective...internalizing the story. I can feel it as though I am right there as a participant. The book is a delightful story. How many books are out there like this one? Most moderns today think you need strife to make a story. Is this necessary? Is this not a mere commentary on how far down modern society has sunk? Is there no fun in life apart from sports?

Years ago when I interviewed the old people for a genealogy book, I heard so many stories, had me laughing a lot. Those people knew how to have fun! The end results were sometimes unexpected and thereby lies the humor. I concluded one could have a radio program after the manner of Garrison Keillor's "Prairie Home Companion" focusing on life growing up in rural America in an Amish - Mennonite community.

Krispy, there are other fun books to read like "Rascal", "The Wolfing", "Incident at Hawk's Hill" beside Mark Twain's books. You have humor, can you not use it and make a read that is uplifting?

OK, I do not know the gist of your novel, these are just some ideas that have sprung up in my mind when I consider the modern novel and compare it with the ones written many years ago.

Wishing you well...


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2012/3/1 10:25Profile









 Re:

Because I usually find humor in just about everything, and because my humor tends to be a little irreverent, that does leak into anything I do.

This novel does have strife. Why? Because some of the events that are central to the plot actually took place in my hometown. I've changed the names and dates to protect the innoce... well, to keep from getting sued. lol

I'm all for uplifting stories so long as they are not sappy. Like those chick flicks on Lifetime or some of those channels for women. To be honest, as good as Facing The Giants was, it was sappy. What kind of football coach cries in every other scene? I wouldnt play for a man who did that. If football had not been the focus of the movie I never would have watched it.

I also had an issue with the whole "surrender your life to Christ and you will win the state championship, get a brand new red pickup truck to replace the clunker you were cursed with, your job will be saved, and you wife will get pregnant after years of not being able to" theme. (Christianity as life enhancement)

The Christian life can be full of strife and trouble.

Krispy

 2012/3/1 11:38
MaryJane
Member



Joined: 2006/7/31
Posts: 3057


 Re:

Greetings Krispy

you wrote:PS: I am a realist, I do not anticipate becoming a famous author. Writing is something that I love and enjoy. I want to write something people will want to read... but for me, right now, it's fun.

____________

I am sure your book will be intriguing and very captivating :) I wish you all the best with this endeavor.

God Bless
mj

 2012/3/1 13:33Profile





©2002-2020 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Privacy Policy