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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : The Cult of Biblicism

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roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777


 Re:

Quote:
It is the Cult of Sola Scriptura that "belittles" the Word of God more than anyone else.

Could Luther ever have imagined how “Sola Scriptura” would become hijacked and used to threaten the very aim for which he risked his life?

Quote:
As Spurgeon said, "The Bible suffers more from its exponents than its opponents."

Could Spurgeon ever have imagined how prophetic his words would be for our day? Why, today’s opponents use the Bible’s exponents as proof for their position against the Bible. In that sense it is riskier going too far to the right than to the left - because you end up reinforcing the left. (Rom. 3:24)

Why is it that left-leaning authors begin their books by addressing the ruble and shamble produced by zealous exponents? Clearly, a wounded evangelical is dangerous. Anger and hurt is a powerful motivator. We can't deny that it has helped fuel the emergent movement.

Thank you Wayneman for drawing attention to the issue of “subjectivism”. Many years ago someone used the word: “EVANGELICAL EXISTENTIALISM” to refer to this subjective habit of Biblical interpretation. I forget who said that. Have you heard it before?


As I read through this thread, in light of our other discussions, I become more and more convinced of this:

We will be more effective in restoring Biblical reliability and authority if we conservative evangelicals acknowledge the error and sin on our part than if we aim merely to combat the error of our opponents. But as any physician knows, we need to get to the root. I think Robert's book review does just that through the one word: "Autonomy". It's that same "bite" that the pair took in the Garden of Eden: "I can be a self-autonomous God."

And this even stains our approach to scripture.


Diane


_________________
Diane

 2012/1/13 8:19Profile
twayneb
Member



Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2007
Joplin, Missouri

 Re:

wayneman: After reading your last post I see much more clearly where you are coming from in your original post. I agree that there are many men who mishandle the written word. There are a variety of reasons for this. Some mishandle it because they have a prior commitment to a doctrinal stance that they have come to view with such reverence that they are unwilling to change their stance even if the Bible contradicts that stance. This causes them to put on glasses that are the color of their doctrine every time they read or study the word. The reasons for this are numerous and I know I cannot think of them all, but I have encountered a few. One is the fear of man. Success or standing in an organization that teaches that doctrine would be jeapordized if they were to change their teaching. Another is misplaced loyalty. They have for some reason become loyal to a man, a teaching, or an organization and that loyalty is so great that it overrides their commitment to the word. We might call this idolatry and I have seen times when it really was. I have seen people worship an organization and its teachings.

I am sure the emergent church is a deception from the enemy but it plays on the feelings of men and women who are tired of business as usual in the church world. But the problem is not with the word of God, it is with men. The word of God is inerrant. It is holy. The written word is the more sure word of prophecy to which we are to take heed that is spoken of in the Bible. The problem is not the word, the problem is us. And the "us" problem cannot be solved by an academic study of the word alone. The Holy Spirit doing a supernatural work in our hearts is the only thing that can solve the problem of our broken approach to the written word. That is part of what I mean when I say that it takes both the Spirit and the written word working together.


_________________
Travis

 2012/1/13 8:33Profile
roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777


 Re:

Quote:
We have created this false dichotomy of Word and Spirit, of mind and heart, of faith and good works, of justification and sanctification, of salvation and lordship, of grace and rewards, of conversion and discipleship.


You are thinking my very thoughts, elected. The pendulum never seems to stop swinging between false dichotomies. There seems to be a propensity to correct one position by cocooning it off and swinging the emphasis elsewhere. Then the other “side” must pull the pendulum back … and on it goes..


Quote:
Balance is what we lack.


Yet isn’t balance what each “side” is trying to restore?

Would God’s people not get further ahead by paying more careful attention to what creates this momentum between sides, and what the others are concerned about. Maybe we’d see how we have helped create the need for others to push away. As long as we are hot on the trail defending OUR position – we aren’t really hearing the other, are we?

Meanwhile the log in our eye merely blinds us from seeing clearly the specks way over there.... way on the other side... Why they are so far away that we don't even see the speck! What if our Doctor looked in our eye from such a distance?

I thank my fellow posters here for attempting to expose our besetting “log”. Once we can see it, we are well on the way to seeing their "speck" more clearly - and restoring our gospel calling.

Diane


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Diane

 2012/1/13 9:22Profile
pilgrim777
Member



Joined: 2011/9/30
Posts: 1211


 Re:

Roadsign, Twyane, Wayneman, Elected, and RobertW it is very encouraging to see that the Saints can work things out and more importantly figure things out if they are allowed to continue to. Just reading this thread this morning I can see that more and more are understanding what Wayneman was trying to say in his original OP. And I am learning more from all of you.

This is a pervasive problem that affects us all.

Balance is key.

Admitting that the problem is "us" as roadsign and twayneb declare is a big step in the right direction.

There are so many good quotes from everyone but I will just post one here that resonates with me.

Quote:
I am sure the emergent church is a deception from the enemy but it plays on the feelings of men and women who are tired of business as usual in the church world. But the problem is not with the word of God, it is with men. The word of God is inerrant. It is holy. The written word is the more sure word of prophecy to which we are to take heed that is spoken of in the Bible. The problem is not the word, the problem is us. And the "us" problem cannot be solved by an academic study of the word alone. The Holy Spirit doing a supernatural work in our hearts is the only thing that can solve the problem of our broken approach to the written word. That is part of what I mean when I say that it takes both the Spirit and the written word working together.



I too have seen friends "migrate" to Catholicism and the Emergent Church because of any number of "excesses". But many of them fit into the category of subjectivism. In the end they are just trading one flavor of religion over another.

Jesus is Victor over all religion including the religion of self.

Pilgrim

 2012/1/13 9:59Profile









 Re:

Its amazing how a thread can develop when there is no name calling. God bless the saints as they figure things out. I am encouraged by this thread.........brother Frank

 2012/1/13 10:41









 Re:

appolus... you heretic!

(just kidding... lol)

Krispy

 2012/1/13 10:57
allaboard
Member



Joined: 2011/5/28
Posts: 100


 Re:

I am so encouraged by this thread and the loving conduct of the brethren. I see the same problem in the House Churches. It is pervasive as Pilgrim said.

In the Book of Acts many things were said regarding "hearing the Spirit" that I wonder if they are ignored today as "charismatic". And then there are Scripture only people that ignore the Spirit. As roadsign and twayneb have said there must be a balance. Look how there is balance in just the Book of Acts. There is the emphasis on the Spirit and the Scriptures, not just the Scriptures.

How can we improve on the balance that the Holy Spirit shows us both in the written Word and the Voice of God in the Spirit, working together not apart and independent.

HERE ARE SCRIPTURES DEMONSTRATING BEING LED BY THE SPIRIT

Act 8:29 Then THE Spirit SAID unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot.

Act 10:19 While Peter thought on the vision, THE Spirit SAID unto him, Behold, three men seek thee.

Act 11:12 And THE Spirit BADE ME go with them, nothing doubting. Moreover these six brethren accompanied me, and we entered into the man's house:

Act 11:28 And there stood up one of them named Agabus, and SIGNIFIED BY THE Spirit that there should be great dearth throughout all the world: which came to pass in the days of Claudius Caesar.

Act 16:7 After they were come to Mysia, they assayed to go into Bithynia: BUT THE Spirit SUFFERED THEM NOT.

Act 21:4 And finding disciples, we tarried there seven days: who said to Paul THROUGH THE Spirit, that he should not go up to Jerusalem.

Act 23:9 And there arose a great cry: and the scribes that were of the Pharisees' part arose, and strove, saying, We find no evil in this man: but IF A SPIRIT OR ANGEL hath spoken to him, let us not fight against God.


NOW THE WORD

Act 6:4 But we will give ourselves continually to prayer, and to the MINISTRY OF THE WORD.

Act 6:7 AND THE WORD OF God increased; and the number of the disciples multiplied in Jerusalem greatly; and a great company of the priests were obedient to the faith.

Act 8:14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria HAD RECEIVED THE WORD OF God, they sent unto them Peter and John: Act 8:25 And they, when they had testified and preached the word of the Lord, returned to Jerusalem, and preached the gospel in many villages of the Samaritans.

Act 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them WHICH HEARD THE WORD.

Act 11:16 THEN REMEMBERED I THE WORD of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.


It has been said that the problem is "US". That seems true. We either sacrifice the Word for the Spirit or the Spirit for the Word. Either extreme is unbalanced.

Brothers and Sisters, I think we all want the same thing.

God is so good!

 2012/1/13 11:21Profile
jochbaptist
Member



Joined: 2010/11/24
Posts: 307


 Re:

Wayneman - THANK YOU for your post.

There are times when the Spirit goes contrary to the word -

Jacob and Rebecca lied to/deceived Isaac ..
If Esther had to stick to the 10 Commandments ...
God overriding His Sanitary Laws by asking the prophet to prepare his food with a fire from ...
The prophet asking the widdow her last flour and oil ...
The woman who had the issue of blood ...
Jesus touching the leper ....

But never contrary to the Spirit of the word.


_________________
J Kruger

 2012/1/13 12:11Profile









 Re:

"appolus... you heretic!"

Watch it Krispy :) I have had better people than you call me that on here :) Love you brother, may the love of God pour down upon His saints to His glory.......bro Frank

 2012/1/13 13:59









 Re:

"Approved: I think it would be interesting to you to study all of the times that Paul referenced the OT in his teachings. Yes he did receive revelation but that revelation was in total agreement with the teachings of the OT. The OT teaches the coming of the New Covenant and the accompanying righteousness by grace through faith."


Brother Twayne when I was writing those words I was well aware of those references, just one of the benefits of having the Holy Spirit. :-)

What some are expecting is word for word confirmations and we are not always going to get that.

Even Jesus when speaking of the law would quote the verse and then say something that really caused a stir, "But I say unto you".

Can you imagine if one of us said something like that, we'd be ostracized.

That "But I say unto you" of whatever He said is not word for word confirmations in the OT. In the OT it was an action that was done in the flesh that caused certain actions from the law. But then Jesus comes along and says something that is not word for word from the law, but tells us something much more important of what is going on in the heart. Now if we don't have the Spirit we are not going to understand that.

We accept what He said as truth because we have believed that He is the Christ. Other people reading that who are not believers will either agree or say, "That is His opinion, it's not necessarily true".

But having said all that, Franks words are still ringing in my ears when he said that Jesus is the life, not the scriptures. That was profound. I'd like to say further that when I read those words, my Spirit refreshed in me like taking in a breath of fresh air. Thanks brother Frank for those words.

 2012/1/13 14:22





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