I am not going to argue (I will carry on a conversation), with anyone about my opinion but be it known that I believe that a Christian can be demonized, not possessed. I think the reason people have so much trouble with the word “possessed” is that it implies “ownership” and we all know that if you have Jesus as your Lord you cannot be possessed by the devil.

Demonized is a much better word to use. What I don’t understand is why people are so invested that a Christian cannot be demonized?! I say that because the Scripture is clear about how healing the sick and casting out demons were INTERTWINED in Jesus’ ministry. Paul even said, “Follow me as I follow Christ.” let's quit arguing and just follow Christ and do as He did!!

God bless,
Lisa

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Lisa

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Diane

A bit more info on the word: daimonizomai from NET Bible


Definition: 1) to be under the power of a demon.

In the NT, these are persons, afflicted with especially severe diseases, either bodily or mentally, (such as paralysis, blindness, deafness, loss of speech, epilepsy, melancholy, insanity, etc.)whose bodies in the opinion of the Jews demons had entered, and so held possession of them as not only to afflict them with ills, but also to dethrone the reason and take its place themselves;
accordingly the possessed were wont to express the mind and
consciousness of the demons dwelling in them; and their cure was thought to require the expulsion of the demon.

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Diane

IF we just use the New Testament alone, we'll not find one case where a true Christian needed a demon "cast OUT".
The Holy Spirit will not co-habit with demons. The Body of a true believer is the Temple of the LORD.


In the revised copies of War on the Saints, I remember that her chpt on deliverance was good. No "casting out" and that book was written for believers only.

I only say this, not to argue, but because I am very concerned what these beliefs that have only come from a few men, like Derek Prince [who also believed in generational curses] and not from The Word and in the long run - I have actually seen where the belief that a Christian can be indwelt by demons and needed them "cast OUT" has caused them much, much mental turmoil because it's Not based on THE WORD.

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Brother Approved, most everyone I meet, has a "bad memory" and that's why I chuckled over narrowpath's post. Anyone over 50 notices that they lose their glasses and such. :)


But regarding your Sister, she's not saved and suffering the consequences of rebellion.

JPL's book was written for Christians.

Do you have any idea how many unsaved people are teaching Bible Studies in this present day? And talking about Christ?

She may have never been truly saved - she more than likely is experiencing what we read in Hebrews 6 and 10 or what Jesus taught about the sower and the seed and the conditions that the seed landed in. She fits one of those analogies. She's in deep trouble and we'll pray for a major event to cause her to turn around and find her need for extreme repentence.



Other than that - I can't seem to be saying it enough - that with the days that are yet ahead of us - we need so desperately to stay Sola Scriptura - Bible Only or we'll be sitting ducks and not possess the power to endure.
We should know the power of GOD by now. We should be seeing the book of Acts as the normal way of life. We should have no fear of the enemy. We should see Paul and Silas praising GOD from prison and Peter in prison waiting to be killed, had to be wakened from a nice sleep by an angel. That's where we need to be. Not giving Satan more power than "what is written".

I truly do pray you see my motives is not to argue but the burden has been on my heart for many yrs regarding this false teaching that gives Satan more power than he Biblically has and how it will do more to weaken Christians when almost every evil spirit that exists, will be let loose on this earth and the people who do take the mark of the beast Will Be Possessed and we'll be face to face with them on a daily basis and according to His Word, probably not treated very nicely by the majority. Even family members will take the mark and be in 'that' condition and why we need to learn Now, to Not fear, regardless of what we meet in the future.

If we know who we are 'in' Christ - we'll know Satan's limits with a true child of GOD!


GOD Bless you all.

Here is an example from Scripture of the possibility of being deceived by a false apsotle who preaches another gosple.

"But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtility, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him." IICor 11:3-4

There is a contrast here between "another jesus" that these false apostles preached and the Jesus that Paul preached. After they believed the gosple that Paul shared, the corinthian believers received the Holy Spirit. But now these deceitful workmen were preaching "another gosple" and as a result of that the corinthians were in danger of receiving "another spirit", which they had not received when they believed Jesus Christ that Paul preached to them.

Paul called these men ministering at corinth, false apostles, deceitful workmen, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. He said that "no wonder even, Satan disguise himself as an angel of light. So it is no surprise if his servants, also, disguise themselves as servants of righteousness."

Can someone make the connection here with what is going on today in many evangelical or chrismatic movements. How many times I remember, when I was a young christian, I had to be careful when people laid hands on me. Most of the time I felt a strage fire and the only way to fight it was by the fire of the Holy Ghost. It never happend to me to fall down or lay down in a state of half conscienceness under the socalled "power of the spirit". I was an honest believer, regenerated and sanctified, I wanted the Lord's blessings too but I realized and spiritually sensed that there was something wrong in the atmosphere.

I was testing the spirits and they were not the same as the one I had received when i was born again. think about how many sincere christians have been deceived by the counterfeit gifts of the Spirit and counterfeit fires. Thinking it is the Holy Spirit when in fact it was "another spirit" from the botomless pit.

I believe that there is a danger of receiving "spirits" through the laying on of hands from false ministers who are like clouds without rain and fruitless in their ministry. This is a reality, the trasmission of false spirits through the laying on of hands and those like me who have a background in the charmismatic movement know what I'm talking about.

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Redi

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Diane

Dear sister Lisa,

You are right that we should carry on this discussion with a focus on helping John, and doing so in a way that preserves the unity of Christ. May God enable us to do so in love on this forum, not debating one another. Please forgive me for any times I have come across this way. I do believe we all want God's best for John. Let's continue to pray that God will bless him :) In His wisdom, He knows what's best for him and each one of us, and His wisdom far surpasses my wisdom.

In Christ's love,

John

I'm concerned with the terminology, Diane, of that you felt the need to use these terms, "expel", "expulsion", and "cast it out".

If only we as true Saints realized that no enemy can touch us without His permission and His will. And by "touch" that's a limited power granted the enemy.

This statement that you made is what the Word would teach on demonology --- ""God was perhaps using those experiences to strengthen my resistance and my awareness.""

To say that anyone finding faults in JPL's book are "quenching His Spirit and have deceptions planted by the enemy" is going a bit far. The woman did go beyond what is written and that can easily be proved. To say that her book is inerrant, is putting it on equal footing with Scripture.

The book of Job was the first book written for His people that are living to the best of their ability regarding what Satan can and can't do. Job did not need a demon "cast out" of him when GOD was done allowing Satan to merely touch his life and his flesh. Satan need not indwell a human to give them boils and such.

I understand fully what you went through in those meetings that you attended, but you did not need anything "cast out" - but you needed to recognise the source, reject and get back into The Truth. Resist the enemy and he will flee. I believe a good number of us have been in services and such that had counterfeit spirits of one sort or another and felt affected.

Have you truly read JPL's chpt on the way of deliverance? Though she may have gone to far in the areas we've discussed, as I mentioned above - that one chpt is good and has nothing that I've found of "casting out" of a truly born-again Christian.

What does the Word of GOD say that we're to do with sin in our lives?
What does His Word say to do if we're "sick"?

The enemy cannot touch us, except the LORD allow and again, The LORD will not co-habit with devils.
Every account of "casting out" was of those who had not been "spirit filled" as yet, because either He hadn't died and rose from the dead yet to send His Spirit through salvation or they just hadn't gotten saved yet. That is very easy to prove out.
It is very easy to prove out, that the enemy can do nothing to us unless He allow it - either to teach us or chastise us but nowhere does it say that we need this enemy "cast out", If we're truly saved.
Chastisement lasts as long as He sees fit. Teaching us goes on as long as He sees fit. Making us as wise as serpents and as harmless as doves, many times is the main reason for any negative activity around us.

If it cannot be proved out with His Word - there is no experience on earth that forms "doctrine".

The doctrine of demonology needs to be formed from Scripture alone - and in these days especially - needs to be Biblically accurate or else we'll be putting people into Bondage and possibly cause them more than He will tolerate from the teacher of unscriptural teachings.
He does not take causing unnecessary mental torment of His Sheep lightly. He is the most jealous Shepherd over the sheep that ever was.
If we don't keep our beliefs from HIS Word only - we risk not only our own delusions but coming under judgment for harming and risking His Children and the consequences of that is something I doubt that anyone here would like to see.

His Word or nothing - Should be our measure of things, lest we cause damage to people that He will definitely hold us accountable for.

I've prayed about this and feel it needs to be said and then I feel I've said it all - not only on this thread but on others in this past year, on demonology.

Heresy in the Greek truly means "the opinion chosen".

If people "choose" to believe something, then they are bound by what they believe and will stand before Him alone for anywhere that they've gone "beyond what is written".

As Sister Lindi posted, this belief that a demon can 'indwell' a true believer - takes His Work on the cross and tramples it. My words but you could read her posts again as well.

Diane, if you are still a "pastor or licensed minister and 'teacher'", then the Word of GOD is where you need to be, more than any other female on this board, for more reasons than just the subject matter of this thread.
You are more accountable Scripturally than any of us and I needn't post all the Scripture of why that is the case.

This is not "warfare" for me to post on any thread. My nature is gentle and so is my voice and way of approaching people, face to face or over the phone, though in writing, I may not sound that way, but I am and have no reason but love for posting anything that I've posted here.

With all of this, I can only hope that you'd take my word for it, because you and I have never talked on the phone, etc..

But when I read books like "A Shepherd's look at Psalm 23" along side His Word - I have that fear of GOD of how He feels about what we feed His Sheep and how we treat them and any threats to them.

With this, I pray for you all and for GOD to show you Himself through His Word and by His Spirit that is able to guide and lead us into all truth.
I pray for each person here with a love that I can't express in words.
Only a few understand the feelings I have for those children of His that post here over these yrs, but if there's anyway to express how I feel for everyone here, it can only be expressed by saying that I have never felt 'led' to stay with any forum out there except this one and feel this is one of, if not the best forum on the Net - with the greatest capacity to lead His Sheep into being true last days Overcomers and to find ourselves "doing exploits", as Daniel wrote and be The Church that we read of in the book of Acts and walk as Paul and even Jesus did - in every way.


With that said - I pray a very powerful New Year in Him and His Word to all.

The Word of GOD, Bless you!

I didn't realize this topic would become a huge discussion. Jessie Penn Lewis causes a stir on this site. I actually looked back googling and found some old posts about her with this same issue of debate. I do not think their is anyway possible a true born again believer can be possessed by an unclean spirit in the sense that it possesses them, but if i am saved they most definitely can oppress you and even afflict you if you opemn the door through sin or definitely ignorant of them and their attacks. That is one thing that as reading her book it seemed she did over emphasize demons and evil spirits, i think i heard them named more than God and Christ, but i could be wrong, but if a book is questionable it is best to put it down. I think also she makes it as if knowing a true working of God's Spirit is confusing so, she makes some valid points to watch out for. We should not easily accept everything right away but test and examine according to biblical principals. For an example today what is always seemed to be believed is everyones profession of faith, now i know i went about the wrong way possibly of being critical before and watching every little movement as someone does as wrong as them not being saved, but churches today confirm everyone is saved i think too quickly, that is why I like Washer so much when it comes to view on salvation. But, anyways i have been on this site i believe since 2008 or 2009, and i love this site. I just want to be delivered and set free and start walking rightly before God, I am sick of doubting and being oppressed by evil spirits, i want to walk in victory it as simple as that, but i think i might have been looking in deliverance from my body healings and attacks on my mind more than wanting deliverance from sin, that might be why i am not being delivered.