| Slayed by the Spirit?|
I have been discipling a fellow worker who was once backsliden and now is filled with the fire of the Lord. He attends a Vietnames Assembly of God. During the Christmas holiday he attended a retreat up in the Sierra Mountains. There, he cried out to the Lord and twice he and his wife testify that the Spirit of God knocked them to the ground.
Since I have not been around Pentecostal ministries, and am not familiar with their doctrine, is this what they call being "slayed in the Spirit?"
The things he described to me sounded like those who fell before the preaching of Wesley and Finney.
Are there any threads concerning this type of testimony?
| 2005/1/8 15:25||Profile|
| Re: Slayed by the Spirit?|
The term used in Penecostal circles is "slain in the Spirit."
You can do a google search on slain in the Spirit and get many hits. My own experience is that when I was a small boy people sometimes fell back because they were under tremendous conviction from the Holy Spirit. I felt something on a couple of occasions and I fell back one time as I recall.
I have only rarely seen this since I returned to the Lord but the difference now is that I don't see conviction of sin when this has occurred and nothing happened to me. One of the primary gifts of the Holy Spirit is conviction of sin. If I don't have that conviction, then I know my heart has hardened and then I have to repent of that coldness.
I guess the question I would ask is there conviction that accompanies this phenemona? If not, I would recommend staying away from it.
| 2005/1/8 16:09||Profile|
I know this brother had been convicted of smoking. He felt hypocritical telling others about what God was doing in his life and smoking at the same time. He testified that his testimony was not glorifying God. Before this retreat, he had struggled in his flesh to stop this habit which had been part of his life for over 20 years.
He testified to me that he made another attempt to stop smoking by not taking any cigarettes with him to the retreat. He didn't smoke for 4 days during the retreat. He then came home and gave into temptation once again. But this time he became ill and could not continue smoking that cigarette. It has now been 12 days. He testifies that God has healed him of smoking.
What I find heart rendering is this, everywhere he goes, he tries to tell others of the good news in his life. This is one example. Last week he had to go to the dentist to have a root canal done. As the dentist was injecting novecane into the area of the problem tooth, my friend blurted out, "Jesus healed me of smoking." His dentist, just sat there with his mouth open. My friend began to witness to the dentist and then his helper about what Jesus is doing in his life. The dentist sat there for 30 minutes just listening to him. This dentist was a buddist. Well after the procedure was completed, the dentist gave my friend his business card and wrote his personal cell phone number on it.
My friend will be talking to me, and in the middle of our conversation about some Scripture, he will just start crying. The love of Jesus is always on his lips.
And of course, I ask these questions to you all, because I ask myself, how satisfied am I with my present walk? I began discipling my friend and now his testimony is convicting me.
| 2005/1/9 0:43||Profile|
| Re: Slayed by the Spirit?|
I have witnessed, on one occasion, one brother being slain in the Spirit. He is a member of this forum and perhaps his testimony will be more insightful than mine will
It was the first time we had ever prayed together and we had often spoken of spiritual experiences and discussed bible doctrine but we had never prayed together in this manner (I do not usually pray in tongues or with groaning around other people). As we prayed, the Lord spoke to my heart and asked me to lay my hands on him. We were both standing as we prayed and I placed my hand on his head and immediately he fell back. I felt absolutely nothing and was shocked to see it happen
I barely caught him as he hit the ground. He was in a trans from this point and we began to speak in the same (spiritual) tongue to each other while he was still in a trans.
The mind was completely unfruitful from this exchange but I can tell you for a fact that spiritually he has seen many more manifestation after this. Neither of us are Pentecostals nor have we ever been to a Pentecostal meeting nor are we familiar with the terms they use but, if the description I hear of being slain in the Spirit are accurate then this is definitely what happened. Those who have read my posts before know that I like to quote scripture to back up anything I say but unfortunately, there is none I can think of
you will just have to take my word for it. Perhaps I can get the brother to write a post to give you a first hand account of what took place. I have omitted many things because this is more of his testimony than it is mine
James Gabriel Gondai Dziya
| 2005/1/9 3:41||Profile|
I think there have been occasional comments on this phenomena but I can't find them. The overall issue with any physical phenomena is that it is NOT true reasoning to say 'x happened therefore y must be true'. If the x is the sudden trance state there is no way that we can calculate what 'y' is.
This, when genuine, is a physical phenomena. (Im sure with some it is self-induced) It may have had a physical cause, or an emotional cause, a psychiatric cause or a demonic cause, or a Holy Spirit cause. People then usually say 'well, by their fruit you will know them'..'and this person has been blessed, helped, convicted... etc.' Again it is not really possible to make a one-to-one conclusion about this. If someone genuinely reaches out to God there may be a great mixture of causes.
There is a verse in Isaiah that I often turn over in my mind. It refers to the maker of idols. [b] He heweth him down cedars, and taketh the cypress and the oak, which he strengtheneth for himself among the trees of the forest: he planteth an ash, [u]and the rain doth nourish it[/u]. Then shall it be for a man to burn: for he will take thereof, and warm himself; yea, he kindleth it, and baketh bread; yea, he maketh a god, and worshippeth it; he maketh it a graven image, and falleth down thereto. (Isa 44:14-15 KJV)[/b]
This man has planted a tree with the intention of nurturing it to become good timber so that he can make an idol. No doubt he is confirmed in his convictions that this is the right thing to do in that the rain doth nourish it. Is God encouraging his folly? (Rain is almost always a sign of Gods favour in the OT.) Why doesnt God stop the confusion by withholding the rain? This man is going to create an idol because God has nourished his plans. Why doesnt God put things into neat boxes?
There is mixture everywhere. I wish it were not so, I have often prayed that it were not so, but there is. And a brief reading of the NT will tell us that it has always been the same. Why doesnt God sort the sheep from the goats now? That Ananias and Sapphira judgement was scary but at least people knew where they stood. I am sure that in the being slain in the spirit phenomena there is mixture too.
Some have made quite an issue about the direction in which people fall. Prostration before the Lord they say was always forwards, onto your face. Whereas being slain in the spirit is usually backwards. There may be some truth in this but I would just like to make a practical point that falling forwards is much safer! That may not sound a very biblical contribution. The concept of catchers developed in some circles. Did I tell you this story? I can document it. A close friend met his cousin in an UK town. The cousin was limping and it transpired that he had put out a disc in his back. He was in considerable pain. My friend asked how the injury had occurred. In a healing meeting, came the answer. Apparently the man, a deacon in his local church, had been nominated as a catcher for a series of evangelistic meetings by a visiting evangelist. The pattern was that as the evangelist laid his hands on the sick they were slain in the spirit and toppled backwards quite rigidly. The deacon took his station behind a large woman. When she keeled over he caught her and slipped a disc. I have no idea whether or not the woman was healed; I only know that the catcher was seriously injured.
I have witnessed the phenomenon of people falling down after prayer. I have often seen people on their faces before God, but they usually got down themselves in an act of contrition or worship. The recent Toronto Blessing made this phenomenon almost a hallmark of the Holy Spirits presence and power. This is foolish and dangerous; other spirits can produce this effect. To begin to measure the power of a meeting by the number of prostrations is also dangerous. Bonhoeffer once said Quantities are competitive, qualities are complementary. I am not always sympathetic to Bonhoeffer but I think this statement is exemplarary good sense.
In the early days of the Lords earthly time His physical phenomena drew many to Him, but their dependence upon Him as a phenomena producer created a faith He could not build on. [b] Now when he was in Jerusalem at the passover, during the feast, many believed on his name, beholding his signs which he did. But Jesus did not trust himself unto them, for that he knew all men, (Joh 2:23-24 ASV)[/b] If the phenomenon genuinely draws people to Christ who can object? But if it results in a preoccupation with the phenomenon it is working against the Holy Spirit who ever seeks to focus our attention upon Christ.
| 2005/1/9 6:53||Profile|
Santa Clara, CA
This produced some chuckles which I have repented of. It's kind of difficult to hear
Quote: and not... Yet, having had past vertebrae misalignment know just how acute this can be.
My friend asked how the injury had occurred. In a healing meeting, came the answer.
Ron, you are becoming more and more quotable everyday;
Why doesn'tt God put things into neat boxes?
There is mixture everywhere. I wish it were not so, I have often prayed that it were not so, but there is.
How's that go...? [i]'You say tomato, I say tomoto'...[/i]
Indeed it's true. Mixture...muddy, my word of choice. A lot of sorting and hard to characterize everything into neat little piles.
But will say that this idea of 'holy men' applying their hands to ones forehead while manipulating (either intentionally or not) the atmosphere, and having 'catchers' and of course the proverbial shove, just to get the ball rolling so to speak, is nothing short of psychological manipulation. And I think it is bogus and despicable frankly. Came out of this sloth and to see sincere believers being played with in this way always gets my dander up.
This so called phenomenon is only so in that it is largely cooked up in imagination of mere men who ought to know better.
There has been talk around here on this subject before, will see if I can back track it. But wish I could go back and turn the tables on my own experience with a Mr. Humbard at one of Benny Hinn's little manipulation conventions. I bowed to the atmospheric pressure and 'went along with it' though absolutely nothing happened other than having someone push me in the forehead even though I was enamored with this gentleman and was full of anticipation. If now was then, would have stood my ground and blown the cover off the whole charade, of course knowing what I do now wouldn't find me anywhere near one of these things...hmmm, could see myself doing some open-air on the other hand....
And here comes the... 'but'.
Can recall a couple of years ago an somewhat elderly gentleman calling in to the Bible Answer Man as this 'phenomenon' was in full stride and he was sincere and confused by it all. He said that he was so overcome by the presence of the Lord while in what was an otherwise normal service, nothing orchestrated, that he fell to the floor in his pew, don't recall if it was necessarily conviction or just being overwhelmed, but this dear soul was in tears as he explained it, it's still etched in my memory. He was so concerned that what happened to him was a possible trick of either the devil or part of this whole so called 'slain....' that he didn't know what to make of it. Mr. Hanaggraff graciously dealt with him in a very loving way, explaining that this certainly was not uncommon to be overwhelmed either by conviction or just by the Lords sheer presence.
In actuality and largely in scripture it makes perfect sense that we would be anywhere else but standing upon our feet in the Presence of pure Holiness, be that of our Lord or angels. But it's all the difference in the world between theatrics and reality.
| 2005/1/9 9:42||Profile|
Thanks for the response. With the response, these particular parts were present with my friend.
First, he testified, that the man prayed for him for some time and nothing happened. The man then went to the next individual and began praying. It was my friends desire to know the baptism of the Holy Spirit. He said he lifted his hands to God and then he fell backwards and stiffened.
Secondly, there were men assigned to catch individuals.
Thirdly, once on the floor he was stiff. One individual sought to bend his arm inward toward his chest. Upon release of his arm, my friends arm sprang back to the original position, that position, representing the cross.
All I know at this point is that my friend was on fire before he went to this retreat. And now the fire is burning hotter. I appreciate all your responses. I too am weary. Yet, my friend, my brother, stated that he too was unbelieving until it happened to him.
| 2005/1/9 14:25||Profile|
Santa Clara, CA
I know that you are a level headed brother and wouldn't want to make my own particular experience or opinion anything other than what it is.
It really is irrelevant in one sense, but for what it's worth...I had a dream a number of years ago, that was very vivid. The essence cumulated in a number of people who had fallen prostrate and I recall as I approached them saying out loud (in the dream) "Lord, you know I don't by into all this 'slain-in the spirit' stuff..." the next thing I knew I was literally crushed to the ground, not backwords or forwards, but sideways..it was very overwhelming, a sense of His power and not a thing I could do but lie there in awe.
Doesn't prove or disapprove anything other than we certainly by know means have everything figured out.
| 2005/1/9 15:10||Profile|
San Pedro, California
I've been in services where people were obviously trying to just be more wild/holy-rollerish than the next person. I've seen people pushed down, or people lining up just to have the experience of being slain in the spirit, which is not something we should not seek in and of itself.
However, the other side of the coin is trying to outline what God can and cannot do. He often does things that we may not be entirely comfortable with. I think the acid test is where the emphasis is. Are we thinking "wow, what a great service, half the audience and the entire choir were slain in the spirit" or are we thinking, "thank you Jesus that You were free to come and change lives"?
I grew up with a rather pentecostal bend, but have only been slain in the spirit once. The preacher did not lay a hand on me and I do not remember falling. I just remember that one moment I was standing and the next moment I was laying on the ground in His presence amidst perfect peace.
| 2005/1/9 17:55||Profile|
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS
In my own experience, I have been slain in th spirit twice. The first time was in the summer of 1999 while on internship. A fellow brother and I were discussing things and he told me that God told him to tell me that I was supposed to be a warrior for God. Now I didn't really think God would use me in this capacity but that's what God told him. Later on that night as we were talking with another brother, the 3 of us were standing and I felt myself begin to rock backward and forward involuntarily. I remember thinking it to be unsual but I had not idea what was to take place just then. Now Leo was standing in front of me as we faced eachother and then I felt myself falling back away from Leo then all of a sudden he caught me from behind and laid me dowm. At this point Leo instructed me to let the spirit do what it had to with me so I did and the spirit began to repeat a phrase in a foreign tongue and it did so for some time after that. As I lay there I convulsed some but after it all I was not hurt. At that time I had seen such things happen but didn't think anything of them.
Then recently it happened again when my brother James came by one day to pray as God instructed him. So we stood and he prayed and laid his hands on as he faced me and I fell back. Again as before I'm unsure as to how he got behind me in time to catch me but he did. At this time the spirit began to speak once again the same phrase it did in '99 but with time the spirit spoke with more force and the speech was expanded greatly. Then my spirit began to speak with my brother's spirit. All along God had been slowly revealing to me and confirming to me what Leo had told me in '99 and it has come to pass. God deals with His children as He sees fit and this is how He dealt with me and many others. Many people dismiss this as rubbish but I thought it rubbish myself till it happened to me. Since then God has increased the power of His spirit within me to do His work accordingly. You may ask how I know it was God and all I can say is the more God does through me the more I see that this is not of myself because it makes me more aware of my own faults and that this is UNDOUBTEDLY God doing what he sees fit. I have seen God do things through me that are difficult to descibe, even when I explain them to James I am overwhelmed because the flesh cannot comprehend the things of the spirit, understand them or profit from them because such things are foreign to the flesh.
This is my story and I hope it gives some insight on this topic.
| 2005/1/9 19:05||Profile|